Trey Manthey Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You are making an assumption that flippers will quit hoarding PVW as a result of ebay's decision. The secondary market will still exist, and prices will most likely go higher as the distribution channel has now tightened further. The ONLY thing that will drive the price down is increased supply. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 There's no question that ebay was the primary vehicle for non-retail sales of PVW. What is driving the crazy prices in the secondary market is the demand at retail. The primary retail market is what drove sales of PVW on ebay, not the other way around. When a product is in high demand at retail that can't be easily attained it will fetch a significantly higher price on the secondary market. Some folks will pay that price. Some folks will not. Flippers aren't driving the market. The market created the flippers. In the absence of the flippers... The demand at retail will still be there. Limited distribution will continue to mean higher prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This isn't simple economics, as you aren't dealing with a product that can be resold by the average person. Alcohol sales require a license. The grey market that has been sustained by eBay was only viable because of the "collectible bottle" loop hole and a broad national market. If eBay goes away, flippers will not have a convenient way to make any worthwhile profit. Won't fly on craigslist either. I can't very well see anyone standing outside bottle shops in a trench coat coaxing customers to look in the trunk of their cars. "Psst. Wanna buy some Pappy?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockefeller Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Sean Brock and Julian Van Winkle are good friends, so he gets all he wants including a private barrel selection.Glad to see Wade's sense of humor and sarcasm detector is alive and well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) "Psst. Wanna buy some Pappy?"Sure, PM me. See how easy it can be? Who needs eBay when you've got enthusiast forums? :grin:Let's start a new topic - 'Wish List' (or 'Show Us Your [Available] Stash'). That way them as gots can supply them as ain't.:slappin: Edited September 13, 2012 by MauiSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy38 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'm getting rid of all my PVW...It's too trendy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yerrbo Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Stop toying with us Pappyless folks! You're giving me hope of actually getting a bottle of Pappy... On a brighter note for me, a local lounge sells it by the glass for a very reasonable price and I had a couple glasses of the 23 this evening and damn it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Wouldnt it be sad if flippers.attain a license and start.a.website selling flipped pappy. We'll be back to square one in no time. For the record, the higher prices are.created by the demand, especially on eBay. Someone desparately wanted PVW 15 and shelled out 300 FTW. Suddenly that became the standard by which it is now sold. All it would have taken is another independantly wealthy fool to.shell out 500 to increase tje value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yerrbo Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Wouldnt it be sad if flippers.attain a license and start.a.website selling flipped pappy. We'll be back to square one in no time. For the record, the higher prices are.created by the demand, especially on eBay. Someone desparately wanted PVW 15 and shelled out 300 FTW. Suddenly that became the standard by which it is now sold. All it would have taken is another independantly wealthy fool to.shell out 500 to increase tje value. And then that person who shelled out the $300 for the PVW 15 drank it with a root beer back... tragedy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifax Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 What makes you guys think that people buying PVW on ebay are any different than us? This community represents just a fraction of the whiskey buying public. I personally know of about 15 whiskey lovers in the Raleigh-Durham area who want PVW in their liquor cabinet. If the inventory was sitting on the store shelf many of the folks buying PVW on ebay would grab them up. Folks are paying big money for it on ebay because it is difficult to find PVW at retail. It's as simple as that. When this Fall's release comes... It will be all bought up in a matter of days as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark fleetwood Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 What makes you guys think that people buying PVW on ebay are any different than us? This community represents just a fraction of the whiskey buying public. I personally know of about 15 whiskey lovers in the Raleigh-Durham area who want PVW in their liquor cabinet. If the inventory was sitting on the store shelf many of the folks buying PVW on ebay would grab them up. Folks are paying big money for it on ebay because it is difficult to find PVW at retail. It's as simple as that. When this Fall's release comes... It will be all bought up in a matter of days as usual....matter of hours or even minutes in some places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Wouldnt it be sad if flippers.attain a license and start.a.website selling flipped pappy. If you mean "obtain" a license, that's probably easier said than done and a hassle no flipper is gonna wanna bother with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 If you mean "obtain" a license, that's probably easier said than done and a hassle no flipper is gonna wanna bother with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Is (or was) the volume on ebay so high that it significantly affects the local supplies? Seems like an awful lot of flipping would have to take place for ebay to have much influence.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Depends on the profit margin. 80 dollar buy in, 220 dollar return on investment isnt bad.Are you talking about the cost(s) of obtaining a license or the cost/sell profit of a PVW 15? Either way, as I said, if obtaining a license was easy, flippers would be doing it left & right so as to secure their ebay avenueand stay on the right side of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyVW23 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I really don't understand this reasoning. If i have some personal property and i want to sell it, who is to tell me no? You don't think these sales will just move somewhere else? they will. I also love the reasoning that the prices will come down. not likely on the sw juice. my whole county got 3 bottles of 23 in the spring. prices aren't coming down, they are going up. Partially because of this forum!I'm glad to see EBay finally taking a stand against people price gouging CURRENT production whiskies. My stance on all this- If it's still made and available on a shelf new, you shouldn't be able to sell it or buy it on EBay. If it is no longer a current production product (Say, about 1 year or so), then ok, it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Are you talking about the cost(s) of obtaining a license or the cost/sell profit of a PVW 15? Either way, as I said, if obtaining a license was easy, flippers would be doing it left & right so as to secure their ebay avenueand stay on the right side of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleblank Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Is (or was) the volume on ebay so high that it significantly affects the local supplies? Seems like an awful lot of flipping would have to take place for ebay to have much influence.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm going to echo doubleblank's statement. When I first started looking for pappy, I had 2 retail managers tell me that they've placed orders and never received their allotments. This was because the distributor was keeping the bottles or selling them themselves. I reported this to Julian and he literally mailed me back saying "once it's shipped it's out of our hands." Then he gave me a list of Texas distributors I could call. Since then, all the stores I go to get 1 PVW23, 1 PVW20, maybe 2 PVW 15s, 3 VWFR 12yrs, and 1 Rye. Sometimes they get the 10 yrs instead of the Ryes. When you have 100 people looking and only 8 bottles to split...it's beyond annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't deny the annoyance - I'm just wondering if it's strictly an ebay effect and if some other conduit will replace the ebay pipeline.Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I don't deny the annoyance - I'm just wondering if it's strictly an ebay effect and if some other conduit will replace the ebay pipeline.CraigWell, going back to the discussion I was having with these store managers, they claim that the distributor will sometimes hold bottles on purpose to be distributed later at key holidays. Maybe they did that years before the flipping on eBay occurred to ensure that there was demand. Now it would just be silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barturtle Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So, I'm guessing this will actually raise values of those bottles that can find a way to be sold, as there is no longer an easy outlet for people to get these bottlings.WHO WANTS TO BUY SOME VAN WINKLE?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadewood Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 WHO WANTS TO BUY SOME VAN WINKLE?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy38 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I know the rules...Rule #1 - THERE ARE NO RULES!!Rule #2 - No outside food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarV Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So, I'm guessing this will actually raise values of those bottles that can find a way to be sold, as there is no longer an easy outlet for people to get these bottlings.Excellent point Timmy.Really Timmy, I think you nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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