Current PVW Prices 2012/2013

[unclebunk]

A couple of years ago, I gave away bunch of PVW 15 (pre-2009) to some good coworkers/friends, I definitely hope they had enjoyed it instead of reselling it. Before that I did gave away a bottle of PVW20, for someone's father in law who was extremely happy and impressed with it.

Damn, Hugh. Wanna be friends? None of mine give me PVW bottles!:grin:

[squire]

Well, it was Pappy himself who made the rule to keep it exclusive.

[passthebourbon]

The Aviary offers an entire flight, 10, 12, 13 rye, 15, 20 & 23 for $150. Went there a month ago (ordered cocktails because they are like Alice in Wonderland type stuff), but saw many others enjoying a very well presented (glassware, etc) flight. Had a little order envy.

http://chicago.grubstreet.com/2011/05/aviarys_liquor_flights_take_of.html

[Yeti]

I'm not a restaurant industry insider (at any level higher than waiting tables in college) but my opinion/perception is that the retail market and the secondary per-drink bar market are entirely distinct and separate in practice. Bottles of wine often have 3x markup or more. You'll find 1.5 oz. pours of $18 bottles for $6 or $8. These are completely detached, in absolute terms, from the retail cost.

I think the per glass pricing for Husk is completely fine. I wouldn't order P23 for $20 a pour, so it makes no difference to me what they charge. The price is right there on the menu, which accomplishes two things. It lets you know that they carry the "entire" range of this highly sought after product, and that you're going to have to pay to play. The person who said that equilibrium is the idea is probably spot on. This is a well known restaurant that is most likely frequented as a special event experience and I imagine they would sell bottle after bottle at a lower cost.

This way, they have the product reliably and can say "hey, we know you've been searching high and low for PVW, and you can find it here any time you want. But it'll cost you." There's a huge difference between a retail store "gouging" a P23 for $600 and this. A restaurant like Husk most likely relies on the sale of extremely marked up wine and liquor to keep food cost down and the doors open.

A few years ago I was at the Greenbrier resort for the first time as an adult and I thought I'd order a scotch. I thought that anything I ordered would be expensive, so I asked for Glenfiddich 12 assuming it would be the most affordable. And it was, at something like $25 for 1.5 oz. I find that more bothersome than this.

[LostBottle]

The Aviary offers an entire flight, 10, 12, 13 rye, 15, 20 & 23 for $150. Went there a month ago (ordered cocktails because they are like Alice in Wonderland type stuff), but saw many others enjoying a very well presented (glassware, etc) flight. Had a little order envy.

It seems the Aviary, along with other trendy eataries and bars, are part of the problem with the recent Pappy bull$$$hit.

This photo (not mine) was making the rounds over at WineBerserkers (a great site by the way) in the Pappy Hunter thread; it shows the allocation of Van Winkle that the Aviary got. According to the poster, Alinea and Next took most of the rest of the Chicago area allocation. It sucks on premise locations have such a lock on the supply, especially when their pricing does the consumer no favor. The "hot" places seems to be the worst offenders price wise and unfortunately, I can only imagine this will be where the whiskey is headed in the future because it furthers the image the Van Winkles want to cultivate.

Edited March 8, 2013 by LostBottle

[Halifax]

Hey... If they can get $130 for a pour of Pappy 23 then my hats off to them. That's some serious bank on a $240 bottle. There's plenty of money in Charleston, and more to come in when the weather breaks. Somebody will pay it, and they'll be happy to. I just business... If some tourist want's to blow his cash on overpriced whsikey then let him. What do I care...? I'd never go to Husk to drink Pappy. I can drink it right here at home.

[p_elliott]

Well if you read either in this tread or another one a post by Randy Blank. He predicts that this is just is just what is going to happen to Pappy. It's all going to go to the bars and restaurants and not the liquor stores. 1 because the liquor stores don't want to mess with it causes too much hassle and too many hurt feelings. 2 It's just a better out lay for Pappy to be in the bars and restaurants.

Edited March 8, 2013 by p_elliott

[Rockefeller]

Hey... If they can get $130 for a pour of Pappy 23 then my hats off to them. That's some serious bank on a $240 bottle. There's plenty of money in Charleston, and more to come in when the weather breaks. Somebody will pay it, and they'll be happy to. I just business... If some tourist want's to blow his cash on overpriced whsikey then let him. What do I care...? I'd never go to Husk to drink Pappy. I can drink it right here at home.

[Halifax]

^ ORVW can do whatever they please. The market sets the price... Whether we like it or not. Simple as that.

[LostBottle]

Well if you read either in this tread or another one a post by Randy Blank. He predicts that this is just is just what is going to happen to Pappy. It's all going to go to the bars and restaurants and not the liquor stores. 1 because the liquor stores don't want to mess with it causes too much hassle and too many hurt feelings. 2 It's just a better out lay for Pappy to be in the bars and restaurants.

[Halifax]

I think Randy pretty much nailed it.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Halifax

[SMOWK]

...premium restaurants are going to charge a premium for their food, wine and whiskey... What's the big deal?

I'd be willing to bet that PVW is not the most profitable thing on the menu.

[Josh]

I agree. Everyone and their brother thought that once Ebay went away they'd be able to go down to their local Walgreens a nab a bottle of PVW 15 for $49.95. Wrong answer...

Please show me where anybody said that.

I find it laughable that someone would actually use terms like price gouging and exploitive cash grab when it comes to luxury goods. We're not talking about buying a loaf of bread right after the hurricane. Is is fairly safe to assume that premium restaurants are going to charge a premium for their food, wine and whiskey... What's the big deal?

I agree with you that those aren't very good words to use, but I think it's natural for people to be unhappy when a product they enjoy becomes more expensive and harder to find. They then have to make a decision about whether they want to try to buy some pappy or they switch to something else or nothing at all. "The market" is nothing more than people making decisions, isn't it? When/if fewer people decide to try to buy VW products (demand goes down), they may become cheaper and more easily available (supply goes up).

As dumb as it is to complain about price gounging, it's just as dumb to give condescending responses to people who are having a perfectly natural reaction to a favorite whiskey becoming harder to find and more expensive as if those people are ignorant morons who don't understand the basics of supply and demand.

[Halifax]

Please show me where anybody said that.

I'm sure you're very capable of using the search feature. My comments simply paraphrased much of the previous debate. Search away bro...

...As dumb as it is to complain about price gounging, it's just as dumb to give condescending responses to people who are having a perfectly natural reaction to a favorite whiskey becoming harder to find and more expensive as if those people are ignorant morons who don't understand the basics of supply and demand.

I used the word "laughable" and you find that to be condesending? I find it humorous... How about that. Does that suit you Mr. SB policeman? FYI... You got the market cornered around here when it comes to being condescending, and you might want to check your wording there skippy. Are you not calling those "ignorant morons" (your words... not mine) dumb for complaining about price gouging to begin with? Humm... Go have a pour chief... Quit talking out of both sides of your piehole.

[White Dog]

Nothing like a Pappy thread to make the shit start flying. I'm just gonna open one of my ND Old Taylor Liters that I just bought for $7.99. :drink:

[hectic1]

I'm sure you're very capable of using the search feature. My comments simply paraphrased much of the previous debate. Search away bro...

I used the word "laughable" and you find that to be condesending? I find it humorous... How about that. Does that suit you Mr. SB policeman? FYI... You got the market cornered around here when it comes to being condescending, and you might want to check your wording there skippy. Are you not calling those "ignorant morons" (your words... not mine) dumb for complaining about price gouging to begin with? Humm... Go have a pour chief... Quit talking out of both sides of your piehole.

That there is funny...

[AaronWF]

Where's Modern Seinfeld when you need him?

Elaine dates a guy who introduces Kramer, Jerry and George to Pappy. They all get hooked before it starts disappearing from shelves. Newman steps forward, having hoarded the entire New York/NewJersey allocation, and offers to sell bottles at 1000% mark-up.

[SMOWK]

Where's Modern Seinfeld when you need him?

Elaine dates a guy who introduces Kramer, Jerry and George to Pappy. They all get hooked before it starts disappearing from shelves. Newman steps forward, having hoarded the entire New York/NewJersey allocation, and offers to sell bottles at 1000% mark-up.

But that is way more believable than any actual Seinfeld episode...

[Dolph Lundgren]

Where's Modern Seinfeld when you need him?

Elaine dates a guy who introduces Kramer, Jerry and George to Pappy. They all get hooked before it starts disappearing from shelves. Newman steps forward, having hoarded the entire New York/NewJersey allocation, and offers to sell bottles at 1000% mark-up.

[Rockefeller]

Well gentlemen look at this, Husk has taken PVW completely off their online menu. Pappy at Husk

I guess someone must have told them about our little thread. Based on the other crazy prices, I'm sure Sean Brock is still gouging away at the actual bar (unadvertised). We know you're charging $50/70/130 for the PVW 15/20/23 Sean!

[LostBottle]

Well gentlemen look at this, Husk has taken PVW completely off their online menu. Pappy at Husk

I guess someone must have told them about our little thread. Based on the other crazy prices, I'm sure Sean Brock is still gouging away at the actual bar (unadvertised). We know you're charging $50/70/130 for the PVW 15/20/23 Sean!

Pretty funny. I was figuring they ran out of VW because it was such a bargain.

Edited March 16, 2013 by LostBottle

[smknjoe]

Well gentlemen look at this, Husk has taken PVW completely off their online menu. Pappy at Husk

I guess someone must have told them about our little thread. Based on the other crazy prices, I'm sure Sean Brock is still gouging away at the actual bar (unadvertised). We know you're charging $50/70/130 for the PVW 15/20/23 Sean!

Pretty funny. I was figuring they ran out of VW because it was such a bargain.

Just to keep things in perspective ORVW 15 yr. was $45 just 8 years ago. :bigeyes: When did they start labeling it as PVW?

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?3880-Old-Rip-Van-Winkle-10-year-107-Proof

[squire]

Oh I expect they can still lay hands on a bottle for the 'special' customers, for a price of course.

[wadewood]

Can someone email Julian/Preston about this Husk thing? The more I think about it the angrier I get. Get Wadewood on the case!

Just now browsing this thread; the whole current PVW price point topic was uninteresting to me.

Can't say I'm angry about this at all. If Julian chooses to allot more Van Winkle to Husk, it's his business to do so (pending this is not any violation of South Carolina law). And if Husk can sell it for those prices, more power to them. I'll elect to buy something else.

[T Comp]

Just to keep things in perspective ORVW 15 yr. was $45 just 8 years ago. :bigeyes: When did they start labeling it as PVW?

Per your Poison Girl buddy :cool: it was late '04 early '05. Post 10 in this thread Joe. Some of were able to still buy PVW in the mid 40 dollar range as recently as fall '11. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?13490-15-yr-Wheated-Bourbons-(SW-Van-Winkles-etc)&highlight=kentucky+bourbon+society

"Julian changed the ORVW 15/107 to Pappy 15/107 in late 2004/early 2005. I recall visiting with Julian in the BT single barrel bottling line right when they changed the packaging from ORVW to Pappy 15. He said there were two things different in the Pappy 15 vs ORVW 15......Preston was involved in the barrel selection for the Pappy 15.......and BT chill filtered the Pappy 15 (and the small amount of ORVW 15/107 bottled in Frankfort) while Julian didn't chill filter ORVW 15 when bottled in L'burg. So, theorectically, ORVW 15/107 L'burg, ORVW 15/107 Frankfort and the original bottlings of Pappy 15/107 might taste different because of filtering and barrel selection even though they are all SW whiskey. I definitely remember one of those early Pappy 15's being different from ORVW 15/107. Again, IIRC, Julian said the early Pappy 15's were sometimes closer to 16yo and he too could taste the difference the additional year made."

Randy