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old 1889 royal

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cowdery

Boone,

I have seen the label warehouse at Heaven Hill and it is quite a remarkable place. The folks here who have not been so lucky might enjoy a description of it, especially the key statistics (i.e., how many different labels), when you have a chance.

--Chuck Cowdery

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cowdery

Metalman,

Although my original reply to your original post may have seemed flippant or worse, everything I wrote in it was accurate. There really isn't much of a market for American Whiskey rarities, no matter how rare they are, even one-of-a-kind. Some of America's most hard core bourbon lovers participate in this forum and while you might find a couple who would willingly match the Getz Museum's offer, I don't know where you would find someone willing to pay significantly more. No market, no marketplace. You might want to try an auction site like eBay, but I don't know what else to tell you. If you would like to do a little better than $50 -- say $100 -- it may be possible, but if you have more zeros than that in your mind's eye, the kindest thing any of us here can do is set you straight, however brutal that may seem. I did see someone on eBay once trying to sell a bottle of bourbon for $30,000. I don't believe he succeeded.

I'm not sure if I am taking your "hashing and slashing" reference as intended, but your original inquiry triggered the kind of investigation and dialogue that is the lifeblood of this forum, so thank you for that. I hope you feel like you know more now than you did when you started. I'm sorry if we were not able to give you the precise help or answers you sought.

Maybe you didn't get all the way to the end of my earlier essay (I don't blame you), but I think the best theory is that your bottle was produced in Bardstown at Shawhan, later Waterfill & Frazier, before the "Old 1889" brand was moved to the Meadowlawn Distillery in Louisville, post-1948. More specific than that it will be hard to get.

I have another question for the forum: Any guesses as to the significance of the date 1889?

--Chuck Cowdery

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Guest **DONOTDELETE**

Challenged Chuck, "I have another question for the forum: Any guesses as to the significance of the date 1889?"

Well, one possibility is that it represents a date especially important to bourbon-drinkers in the Kansas City area where the brand was originally sold. For example, 1889 was when Carrie Nation began her career of hashing and slashing her way through the saloons of Kansas territory and western Missouri. There was other bourbon packaging "comemmorating" Missy N, including bottles shaped like axes and even a "Carrie Nation" brand. Perhaps "Old 1889" was another example?

=John=

http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

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MashBill

Boone,

Thanks for digging through all of those labels and thanks for the info.

One of my bottles has "L2889" on the side. I can't find anything printed on the other one (except for the bottom).

As Chuck mentioned, do tell us more about the label warehouse!

Thanks again,

Bill

http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

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boone

Hi Bill,

Your bourbon was bottled on October 15, 1999. We are in the process of adding new jet printers because the old ones gave nothing but trouble. A lot of bottles don't have the Julian date because of this problem.

boone.

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boone

Chuck,

Jesus FROGS! How many labels does Heaven Hill own, I really don't know. It would probalby take a few days to count them all! I asked the supervisor back there on day and she looked at me and said I really don't know. We have never counted them. Really, you have been there but that was probably quite some time ago. We have added a lot since then.

I was label machine operator for 7 years. The hardest part was learning all the labels. You run a particular label on one line and when you are on another line the label changes. You have to pay attention, very very close attention because one word could sink you. For instance; Plain Aristocrat, Aristocrat Royal, Aristocrat Supreme, Aristocrat Light, Aristocrat Gold, Aristocrat Tripple sec, Aristocrat Peach Schnapps.

Aristocrat Vodka will come in 80 proof 90 proof 100 proof. It will be in different products such as Aristocrat Bourbon with different proofs, Aristocrat Tequila, Aristocrat Rum, Aristocrat Gin, along with one for each size 200, 375, 750, 1.75. I know we have hundreds upon hundreds or maybe even thousands of labels. Figure each different name label in that particular sequence (as above) with different products proofs, sizes etc. and the amout of labels is staggering.

Ya have to know a little spanish too. Blanco meaning light goods Oro meaning dark. Know your states, NY gets a different bar code on Peppermint schnapps. Why? I don't know.

Maryland will get 70 proof or lower 60 proof ROPA. I asked why. In the state of Maryland grocery stores can sell it at that low proof "without" a liquor liscense.

We bottle for other people, Mohawk for instance. When we run their product and I have old labels the Julian date has to be on every bottle if the jet printer is not working the line stops until it is printing. This tells that the label says (Michigan?) bottler but it is actually Heaven Hill. On all other labels that we have bought there is a notch taken out on either the front or the back. With Christian Brothers Brandy the notch is on the back.

The warning on every bottle has to be there. Federal law requires that the warning has to be at least the size they require for each size bottle. You can make it bigger but you cannot make it smaller. We run a lot of export and there is no government warning on thier labels. Somtimes they get mixed by someone dropping several packs and not knowing what they are mixing together. It is a absolute mess.

Know your DSP#'s and your codes. DSP #1 the new distillery. #31 Heaven Hill (on BOND THESE HAVE TO MATCH THE PAPERS) sometimes known as Old Joe, Boone Distillery (good name), Stonegate, Old Evan Williams, Old Bardstown, JTS Brown etc.

We are also known as BWC #21, BWC means Bottling Wine Company. When we change the line over to run wine at the case sealer we have to post on a big sign BWC # 21. When we change it back to bourbon or whatever we post DSP # 31.

A lot of people think that the majority of what we do is bourbon. This is not true. When the distillery burned down I could not believe what I was watching. I live about 15 miles from Heaven Hill at almost 6 miles away I could see the FLAMES not smoke but very tall flames. When I finally got to Heaven Hill 3 warehouses had burned (7 warehouses burned along with the distillery). I have seen the pictures of the fire in newspapers and magazines but, until you actually see flames 22 stories tall with the explosions it's truely the most awsome, awful, "thing" that I have ever seen. It made hair stand up on my arms and instant tears come to my eyes.

We went to work the very next day. At 4:00 Max shut the plant down and asked everyone to come to the lunch room. He stood in front with his family beside him along with the marketing people. My heart was beating so fast I was scared to death that he was going to say it was over. He told us everything is being worked out we will make it. He said that we all know that bourbon is not the only thing we do. We have plenty of bourbon left. Other distilleries were going to help us out. His last words were, "We have orders to fill and customers to service". He asked us all to repeat what he said WE HAVE ORDERS TO FILL AND CUSTOMERS TO SERVICE. Then he said one more time, WE HAVE ORDERS TO FILL AND CUSTOMERS TO SERVICE. Then he said lets get back to work and we have not missed a beat since. That was November 7, 1996.

We do massive amouts of Vodka, Tequila, Rum, Bourbon, Gin, Brandy, Moonshine, Corn Whiskey, Rye Whiskey, Blended Whiskey, Canadian Whiskey, Wine and LOTS OF STICKY STUFF like Copa De Oro, Schnapps, (DuBouchett)--there is not one DuBouchett that I do not like-the peppermint is the most perperminty pepermint that I have ever tasted-My favorite is Sour Apple-I always taste when it is running.

Next time I see Max I will ask him how many labels we have. I will also try to borrow a digital camera and take pictures of the label warehouse. I should hire John and Linda to do the write up because they really are good discriptive writers.

I am a mechanic now. I don't have to worry about labels any more just machinery. I do like my new job they have trained me well. I still have a lot more to learn but that will come with time.

It's time for me to stop cause I am jumping from subject to subject.

boone

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Guest **DONOTDELETE**

When we visited her in February, Boone took us through the label room. We were majorly impressed. Imagine a small-parts warehouse. You know, with racks of little 8" bins up to about nine feet high, and then cases stacked above them on the top shelf?

Now imagine a good-sized room filled with these, all containing bourbon labels.

Now imagine at the end of the room, there's a doorway into another, similar room. And another. And another.

Some are bourbon labels; others are rum, or tequila, or peach schnapps, or brandy, vodka, cordials, whatever.

Oh, and over here are the same labels in Italian, or Japanese, or Korean, or Arabic(!). And see, these look just the same, but are for slightly different size bottles. And these here are for different proofs.

Heaven Hill owns or bottles an absolutely awesome number of brands, and every one has not only its own label, but often several of them. We spent about as much time exploring the label room as we did on everything else she showed us altogether.

Hey, thanks again, Bettye Jo!

=John=

http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

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cowdery

Thanks, Boone. I just wanted you to give people some idea of what it entails. I seem to recall that the number was 6,000 different labels, in 1992.

--Chuck Cowdery

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boone

Hi John,

You are a excellent discriptive writer. I knew I could count on you for a perfect description!! Come back to my "clubhouse" in September and we will do it again! This time with one of the owners to show you around. I have already made the arrangements with her.

boone

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Guest **DONOTDELETE**

Bettye Jo I always enjoy your posts because you have first hand knowledge of the everyday workings of distillery life. Don't cut yourself short. I find your discriptions far more educational and enjoyable that anything Lipman might write. You get up every day and do the hard work. Your background and life experiance is exactly what this forum needs to put a real face on the inner workings of the bourbon industry. I can also see that you've really grown in your abilities. You may have to break out the dictionary to understand Jim Butler's posts but I can see where you've expanded your horizons. You've always been a good woman, now you're even better! Keep up the good work!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. smile.gif Will Travel.

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