The French Spirits Forum- Cognac, Armagnac, Calvados

[tanstaafl2]

14 minutes ago, Kpiz said:

Last night I picked up two new Armagnacs from K&L, a 1996 Lous Pibous and a 1974 Le Sable. Both are bottled by L'Encantada, a French outfit that ages and bottles the Armagnac for the two domaines (Le Sable is no longer distilling, not sure if Pibous is). Of course I had to open both bottles as soon as I got home. The bottles themselves are closed with a normal artificial cork stopper and then the tops (down about half of the neck) are dipped in bright orange wax. Luckily the wax peels off pretty easily, which saved me from having to either smash the top against a wall (necessary for the harder waxes they sometimes use) or take a knife to it, which always seems to result in a near-filleting of my hand.

 

Anyways, I only had about an ounce of each, so while I will reserve in-depth tasting notes until I can spend a little more time with them, I can say that these are very different brandies. My first impressions are below.

 

The '74 Le Sable is very light and fresh (though not thin), only slightly sweet with a variety of spice notes. This is bottled at 40.1% ABV, which I believe is actually cask-strength, as the L'Encantada website maintains that they bottle at cask-strength and with no additives. Unfortunately and surprisingly (since this spent 42 years in the barrel and received no water pre-bottling) this has a slightly diluted quality. I tend to appreciate overt and powerful flavors over delicate and subtle ones (with some exceptions), so this one, while nice, is a little too light for me. I'll adjust my expectations and try it on another night when I feel my palate is at high-sensitivity.

 

The '96 Lous Pibous (53.6% ABV) is sort of the opposite of the Le Sable. A big chewy monster of a brandy, it has bold flavors that evolve throughout the sip. It has some fruit, spice, sweetness, and oak in almost perfect amounts and they combine in interesting ways. It also has a nice long finish. It is not as bourbon-like as the '96 Pellehaut that K&L brought in a few years ago, but it does have bourbony characteristics (likely due at least partially to this being aged in new oak casks). I really, really like this one and highly recommend it. I should note that someone said this bottle benefited from being opened for a few days, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes as it gets a bit of air.

 

Well, that's encouraging!

[Kpiz]

7 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Well, that's encouraging!

 

Yeah I think (ok, hope) you're going to like this one. The overall flavor profile reminds me a bit of the '04 Charron. I'm hesitant to say more and set your expectations too high!

[tanstaafl2]

Just now, Kpiz said:

 

Yeah I think (ok, hope) you're going to like this one. The overall flavor profile reminds me a bit of the '04 Charron. I'm hesitant to say more and set your expectations too high!

 

Well, the Charron is certainly a good benchmark to aim for! It was certainly one of my favorite bottles of Armagnac in recent times. Will be interesting to see how the additional 10 or so years of age impacts it.

[Kpiz]

Had another small pour of the '74 Le Sable tonight. It is still very subtle but I appreciate it more than I did last night. The more I drank it, the more the flavors seemed to accumulate on my palate and the better it tasted. I'm going to have to spend a lot more time with this one to be able to write any sort of tasting notes.

[tanstaafl2]

10 hours ago, Kpiz said:

Had another small pour of the '74 Le Sable tonight. It is still very subtle but I appreciate it more than I did last night. The more I drank it, the more the flavors seemed to accumulate on my palate and the better it tasted. I'm going to have to spend a lot more time with this one to be able to write any sort of tasting notes.

 

I think I could probably make do with a sample...

[Kpiz]

1 hour ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

I think I could probably make do with a sample...

 

Don't worry, I'll fill it aaaalllll the way to the top 

[Guest]

I was hoping to get this group's take on a few unusual bottles I came across at an "out of the way" Liquor Store.  

 

Pictures below to provide a general sense of condition....they also have prices....which are all, temptingly, pretty low.   

 

The bottom picture shows a Pellisson Pineau De Charentes -- that strikes me as a fairly rare, old bottle but I'm wondering how long Pineau could survive on the shelf?  The cap looks solid and the level is good, but I wonder if the wine would last years of liquor store shelf storage.  (I don't think it was ever in a sunny window, but it certainly wasn't in the basement either.)  Worth the (low) $17 gamble?  I do love those Pellisson posters...  ; )

 

Immediately below the Pineau is a bottle of Commander St. John (fortified) wine -- I think it is typically known as Commandaria, from Cyprus.  Has anyone ever come across this?  Same condition as the Pineau.  The Wiki entry on the wine makes it sound pretty good.  A little noble rot involved, seemingly.  

 

Same low price...

 

In the first picture is a bottle from Germany:  Anton Reimerschmid -- the name of the Liqueur is obscured on the label on the upper shoulder, but I saw some rare bottles from this maker on a few rare liquor sites -- but not this one. 

 

If you have any information or opinions I'd be eager to her them.  Thanks for any wisdom you can impart!

 

My instinct is to go grab them all...and I assumed this group would agree...but I DO want to be able to drink the stuff too...

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Steve L

[tanstaafl2]

42 minutes ago, Steve L said:

I was hoping to get this group's take on a few unusual bottles I came across at an "out of the way" Liquor Store.  

 

Pictures below to provide a general sense of condition....they also have prices....which are all, temptingly, pretty low.   

 

The bottom picture shows a Pellisson Pineau De Charentes -- that strikes me as a fairly rare, old bottle but I'm wondering how long Pineau could survive on the shelf?  The cap looks solid and the level is good, but I wonder if the wine would last years of liquor store shelf storage.  (I don't think it was ever in a sunny window, but it certainly wasn't in the basement either.)  Worth the (low) $17 gamble?  I do love those Pellisson posters...  ; )

 

Immediately below the Pineau is a bottle of Commander St. John (fortified) wine -- I think it is typically known as Commandaria, from Cyprus.  Has anyone ever come across this?  Same condition as the Pineau.  The Wiki entry on the wine makes it sound pretty good.  A little noble rot involved, seemingly.  

 

Same low price...

 

In the first picture is a bottle from Germany:  Anton Reimerschmid -- the name of the Liqueur is obscured on the label on the upper shoulder, but I saw some rare bottles from this maker on a few rare liquor sites -- but not this one. 

 

If you have any information or opinions I'd be eager to her them.  Thanks for any wisdom you can impart!

 

My instinct is to go grab them all...and I assumed this group would agree...but I DO want to be able to drink the stuff too...

 

 

 

 

Worth noting that the Pineau des Charentes does not have wine in it. It is a blend of essentially grape juice just before it starts to ferment and typically new make brandy/cognac which usually results in a final ABV of about 17%. I have a version that was barrel aged for 30 years and is superb. Don't know much about the particular brand but as long as the bottle hasn't been exposed to light as you note or otherwise abused I can't imagine it would be bad.

 

I know nothing beyond what I have read on the internet but given that the Cypriot Commandaria is a similar style I would think it would be fine as well. Might want a current a bottle of either on hand just to see what if any differences there are especially if you have no frame of reference for them to begin with. I would certainly buy the Commandaria if the price was right just out of curiosity! And if there is more than one...

 

Never heard of the German liqueur but if it is cheap then you don't have much to lose giving it a shot! It sounds like they made a variety of liqueurs a bit like Marie Brizzard but I can't tell for sure if the company even exists anymore. The fading of that top label is a bit worrisome.

 

What time travel device did you use to find this dusty little place???

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Worth noting that the Pineau des Charentes does not have wine in it. It is a blend of essentially grape juice just before it starts to ferment and typically new make brandy/cognac which usually results in a final ABV of about 17%. I have a version that was barrel aged for 30 years and is superb. Don't know much about the particular brand but as long as the bottle hasn't been exposed to light as you note or otherwise abused I can't imagine it would be bad.

 

I know nothing beyond what I have read on the internet but given that the Cypriot Commandaria is a similar style I would think it would be fine as well. Might want a current a bottle of either on hand just to see what if any differences there are especially if you have no frame of reference for them to begin with. I would certainly buy the Commandaria if the price was right just out of curiosity! And if there is more than one...

 

Never heard of the German liqueur but if it is cheap then you don't have much to lose giving it a shot! It sounds like they made a variety of liqueurs a bit like Marie Brizzard but I can't tell for sure if the company even exists anymore. The fading of that top label is a bit worrisome.

 

What time travel device did you use to find this dusty little place???

 

Thanks Bruce, really appreciate your input.  I may just have to go in and throw down some cash for curiosity's sake - possibly begin by taking home the bottles that look the least light-exposed.  I assume that's the worry on the Anton Reimerschmid.  Looks like a record that spent too much time in the pawn shop window!

If there are two bottles of the Commandaria I'd be gald to grab you one...  truth is I'm curious about almost everything on this shelf of theirs.  Right next to the Commandaria is an Asti Liqueur?  I can't even find an entry for that, so I'm assuming it is what it says it is...    

 

 

[tanstaafl2]

Ponti is a winery in Italy and appears to be the brand name for the Asti liqueur so perhaps it is, or was, their version of it although I am not really sure what an Asti liqueur would be either!

[tanstaafl2]

Wasn't familiar with the Altvater liqueur either and the bottle seems like an old one as pictures I can find use a different shaped bottle. Some kind of herbal liqueur now made in Austria it seems but with Polish roots going back to the late 1800's.

[tanstaafl2]

The more I stare at the Anton Reimerschmid bottle the more I think the faded upper label says "Crème de Menthe Green". Which I suppose makes sense for a general liqueur manufacturer.

[tanstaafl2]

5 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Ponti is a winery in Italy and appears to be the brand name for the Asti liqueur so perhaps it is, or was, their version of it although I am not really sure what an Asti liqueur would be either!

 

Still can't find much on the Asti Liqueur so I am going to stick the picture up on another site to see if anybody recognizes it.

[HoustonNit]

First time poster here. I'll be in France in a week for vacation and do enjoy Armagnac and to a lesser extent calvados. I've had some nice bootleg calvados as it's produced in my wife's region.

I was gifted a bottle of 30 year old Darroze that's fantastic.



Hoping someone might recommend a few bottles I could find in France for under 60 Euros of Armagnac. Also any highly respected Calvados under 40 Euros?

I'm to search this thread for ideas but you guys seem to know your stuff and would love your opinions.

[Kane]

3 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

Hoping someone might recommend a few bottles I could find in France for under 60 Euros of Armagnac. Also any highly respected Calvados under 40 Euros?

I'm to search this thread for ideas but you guys seem to know your stuff and would love your opinions.

 

Not an expert, but let me chime in. The sad truth is, French brandies are not all that mainstream or popular in France Even finding a pour of *any* Calvados in a bar could be difficult. If you are going to a big & busy city, do your homework and search online for specialty bottle stores beforehand; you won't be running into any by chance otherwise. Most of the interesting stuff you can only get directly from the cognac houses etc. anyway, if you'll be visiting any. Yeah, it sucks.

 

Source: Lived in France for a few years.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Kane

[HoustonNit]

Thanks Kane I was afraid of this. Suspected this was the case for Calvados but not Armagnac. I'm actually more interested in Armagnac but was was interested if anyone had any solid Calvados recommendations.

I think I'll do some initial recon of what's available and than do some research and ask for recommendations here.

Thanks for the reply.

[tanstaafl2]

One of the big whisky shops in Paris, Maison du Whisky, carries some Armagnac and Calvados but finding much at those price points may prove challenging! Armagnac and Calvados are likely mostly at the Odeon location.

 

There may be other options in Paris that have something interesting. I found some Burgundy marc at a small specialty burgundy wine store as a result of a tip from the staff at LMDW.

 

But getting out to the Calvados and/or Armagnac regions (and probably knowing a bit of French) is likely to be the best way to get less expensive but more interesting local products. Unfortunately the two regions are not that close to Paris and are about at opposite ends of France! from one another!

 

 

[Kane]

20 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

Thanks Kane I was afraid of this. Suspected this was the case for Calvados but not Armagnac. I'm actually more interested in Armagnac but was was interested if anyone had any solid Calvados recommendations.

I think I'll do some initial recon of what's available and than do some research and ask for recommendations here.

Thanks for the reply.

On another note, even if you can't find a bottle to buy, do ask for a pour of armagnac or calvados at random bars/restaurants/hotels you happen to go to (be prepared to explain what a Calvados is, really ). Sometimes, someone happens to have this one bottle with absolutely no Internet presence. Seriously, I have a sizeable archive of label pictures with no idea where the juice comes from, and I speak enough French to exercise decent Google-fu too.

 

On yet another unrelated note, for some reason there is plenty of Cuban rum to try everywhere, if you are into that!

[HoustonNit]

Most of the places I'll end up drinking at will be in Normandy so I'm hoping they'll at least know what is.

Also my wife's family always seems to have some moonshine versions on hand for tasting.

I'll definitely try to get a few pours while out and about.

[Kpiz]

On 8/14/2017 at 0:52 PM, HoustonNit said:

Most of the places I'll end up drinking at will be in Normandy so I'm hoping they'll at least know what is.

Also my wife's family always seems to have some moonshine versions on hand for tasting.

I'll definitely try to get a few pours while out and about.

 

If you'll be in Normandy, people are generally aware of calvados and many restaurants will have cider, calvados and pommeau available. I took advantage of this and there were a few meals when I indulged in all three! (Pommeau to start, cider with dinner, calvados as a digestif). Once you leave the region you'll see very few of those products, especially in Paris where we saw essentially none.

 

Perhaps we got lucky, but like I said, many of the restaurants we went to in Normandy had calvados available as a digestif. The restaurants seemed to carry products of just one local producer. For example, a restaurant we went to in Bayeux had pommeau, cider, and calvados all from Ferme de Billy (a small-ish family-owned producer, and all of their stuff was very good). This is great because it forces you to try a smaller, local producers. On the other hand, it makes it difficult to find products from a specific producer. It's therefore hard for me to recommend a specific calvados because the odds of you seeing them are relatively low.

 

There are some bottle shops scattered across Normandy that sell calvados from a wide array of producers and you may be able to ask your in-laws if they know where such a store is. But sometimes even just a little shop that sells cheeses and things may have some local calvados. If you happen to be heading into Honfleur, the iconic little coastal town, there are several small shops that specialize in calvados and you can certainly find something good within your budget there. Many of them will let you sample things, so you'll be able to know you're buying something you enjoy.

 

If you happen to have some free time and can drive around a little bit, I HIGHLY recommend visiting some of the local small calvados producers. They are quite amenable and nearly always seem to have at least one product I enjoy out of the three major ones. My only word of caution is that for many of them, their place of business (the orchard and tasting room) is also their home, so be prepared to feel a little out of place at first, and make sure if you're tasting (which is free), you at least buy some cider (which is dirt cheap, generally between 2-4 euros). If you have interest in this, let me know where exactly you'll be and I can see if there are any places you may be able to stop by.

 

Also, very cool that your in-laws have some bootleg calvados. I was wishing I'd stumble across some while I was over there, but I think they're pretty discreet about these things, especially to outsiders. Of course France is not like America where home distilling is completely illegal everywhere. I believe in France (or at least in Normandy specifically) people can at least get a permit to produce a small amount for their own consumption.

 

Hope this was helpful. Let me know if you have any follow-up questions about anything above.

[HoustonNit]

Cool like the idea of maybe trying to hit up a few local producers, I'll try to set that up.

The moonshine Calvados is interesting but it's not aged so it is what it is.

Whatever I end up doing I'll try to make a point of posting pics and sharing here on whatever I try.

[BourbonDude]

On 8/13/2017 at 1:02 AM, HoustonNit said:

First time poster here. I'll be in France in a week for vacation and do enjoy Armagnac and to a lesser extent calvados. I've had some nice bootleg calvados as it's produced in my wife's region.

I was gifted a bottle of 30 year old Darroze that's fantastic.



Hoping someone might recommend a few bottles I could find in France for under 60 Euros of Armagnac. Also any highly respected Calvados under 40 Euros?

I'm to search this thread for ideas but you guys seem to know your stuff and would love your opinions.

Nice. A Darroze was my introduction to Armagnac 35 years ago. Lately I've been trying the Chateau de Labaude at different ages, which are very nice too.

Edited August 21, 2017 by BourbonDude

[HoustonNit]

Hello all my fourth day in France and was yesterday was my first time to get out at all to look for Armagnac and Calvados. My knowledge of French geography stinks, my father in-law was planning on taking me on a trip to Calvados however I found out from the Picardie/Haute-Normandie border to Calvados is a three hour drive. I think I'll pass.

Selections at the local Walmart type store and one of the few stores not closed for Tuesday or the whole month of August is slim. Saw a bunch of different Darroze but nothing else other than a bottle from the 70s I'm not familiar with.

[HoustonNit]

[HoustonNit]