The French Spirits Forum- Cognac, Armagnac, Calvados

[Harry in WashDC]

On 8/3/2019 at 9:08 AM, kevinbrink said:

I just started to have some small pours every few days, my palate at this point is really overwhelmed by bourbon at this point having a hard time getting past bitter and barrel char notes, on the other hand I've had couple pours of Armagnac and Scotch that have been substantially more enjoyable so it should be an interesting slow process of getting things back to where they were. I'll probably crack these in the next few months but not sure how useful my notes will be  but I'll certainly post them. 

I'm guessing that an upside to your predicament is that 80 proofers do NOT taste watery.  Reminds me of when I gave up smoking pipes before I took up cigars and then when I gave up cigars - - FOOD HAS A TASTE!!  Seriously, though, I have concluded that occasional abstinence really does help keep my palate from getting numb.  Lately (like, the last two weeks), virtually all my whiskey consumption has been down around 60-70 proof.  I'm also pretty sure that somebody here posted that Eddie Russell, when appearing during WT tours, took his pours down to 40 proof AND always put a glass top on his Glencairn (or whatever) between sips.  I guess if I drank all day long, I'd do that, too.

[kevinbrink]

3 minutes ago, Harry in WashDC said:

I'm guessing that an upside to your predicament is that 80 proofers do NOT taste watery.  Reminds me of when I gave up smoking pipes before I took up cigars and then when I gave up cigars - - FOOD HAS A TASTE!!  Seriously, though, I have concluded that occasional abstinence really does help keep my palate from getting numb.  Lately (like, the last two weeks), virtually all my whiskey consumption has been down around 60-70 proof.  I'm also pretty sure that somebody here posted that Eddie Russell, when appearing during WT tours, took his pours down to 40 proof AND always put a glass top on his Glencairn (or whatever) between sips.  I guess if I drank all day long, I'd do that, too.

100% Beam Black 8 years may have well been Bookers I've added water and ice liberally to 80 proof pours.

[Harry in WashDC]

23 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

Hey @kevinbrink, glad to hear that you're able to enjoy a few small pours again! What I'm about to write is a bit off-topic for the French Spirits forum, but since you mentioned that your palate is not where it was before you had to give up drinking for a while, I'd like to relate my current issue with that. 

 

I find it very interesting that you note that your palate is now overwhelmed by bourbon and that you have a hard time getting past "bitter and barrel char notes." I broke several bones in my ankle while out hiking during the July 4th weekend and have to have surgery to put everything together again a few weeks ago. In order to facilitate the healing process, I haven't been drinking since then. However, a few days ago I had to analyze some bourbon barrel samples. These are barrels I check fairly regularly and are usually really good, but when I tasted them, all I was getting was, to use your phrase, "bitter and barrel char notes." Then I tasted various bourbons that I always love just to check myself. Again, same bitterness and barrel char, with some grain and wood sugar sweetness on the nose, and not much else. 

 

I'm really freaked out because I'm afraid that I've "lost it" while I've been convalescing from the surgery. It sounds like you've had similar issues and that your palate is taking a while to get back to normal again? And have you made any progress with how your palate perceives bourbon, or is it still bitter with barrel char? 

 

My theory is that while a body is healing from sickness, surgery, etc., the perception of smell and taste changes so that "toxins" like alcohol become repugnant, while food and drink that the body needs to heal becomes more desirable. At least I hope that's the case. Otherwise, I'm screwed for my work if my nose and palate don't return! 

 

If it is more appropriate to PM me on this, please feel free to do so. I'm really curious how your coping with it, and would like to chat with you about your experience with it. 

 

Nancy - Sorry to hear about your injury.  I used to think that, "Think good thoughts" was hooey and told my neurosurgeons and orthopods that.  They told me to try it, anyway.  Experience has taught me that they probably were correct,  So, keep saying, "Get better" and "Heal up" and "Smell better".   Here's what I have to say about the effect on your palate:  Based on my 50 years (as of last DEC) of dealing with chronic physical issues and their effects on drinking, you are spot on.  As I noted in my comment on K's situation, lack of practice does, indeed, dull the senses, so practice will get you back on the nostril bicycle.  PLUS, docs often don't tell you that some meds have a direct and specific effect on taste and smell; you have to figure that out for yourself.  Like "muscle memory", I expect that your other senses will recover in time.  We'd sure hate to lose "The Nose" as a guy at a distillery described you last year.

[Harry in WashDC]

14 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

100% Beam Black 8 years may have well been Bookers I've added water and ice liberally to 80 proof pours.

THIS is a fascinating observation.  I do have a couple of JBB 8YR in the bunker as well as some Bookers purchased at about the same time.  Doing a SBS at comparable proofs, particularly as this is Summer so I avoid higher proofs, anyway, would be interesting.  To get this back on thread, my armagnac right now is a pedestrian Darroze.  In addition to being a nice late night sipper, it works well in cocktails.

[fosmith]

On 8/7/2019 at 5:29 PM, kevinbrink said:

Hey @kevinbrink, glad to hear that you're able to enjoy a few small pours again! What I'm about to write is a bit off-topic for the French Spirits forum, but since you mentioned that your palate is not where it was before you had to give up drinking for a while, I'd like to relate my current issue with that. 

 

I find it very interesting that you note that your palate is now overwhelmed by bourbon and that you have a hard time getting past "bitter and barrel char notes." I broke several bones in my ankle while out hiking during the July 4th weekend and have to have surgery to put everything together again a few weeks ago. In order to facilitate the healing process, I haven't been drinking since then. However, a few days ago I had to analyze some bourbon barrel samples. These are barrels I check fairly regularly and are usually really good, but when I tasted them, all I was getting was, to use your phrase, "bitter and barrel char notes." Then I tasted various bourbons that I always love just to check myself. Again, same bitterness and barrel char, with some grain and wood sugar sweetness on the nose, and not much else. 

 

I'm really freaked out because I'm afraid that I've "lost it" while I've been convalescing from the surgery. It sounds like you've had similar issues and that your palate is taking a while to get back to normal again? And have you made any progress with how your palate perceives bourbon, or is it still bitter with barrel char? 

 

My theory is that while a body is healing from sickness, surgery, etc., the perception of smell and taste changes so that "toxins" like alcohol become repugnant, while food and drink that the body needs to heal becomes more desirable. At least I hope that's the case. Otherwise, I'm screwed for my work if my nose and palate don't return! 

 

If it is more appropriate to PM me on this, please feel free to do so. I'm really curious how your coping with it, and would like to chat with you about your experience with it. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Nancy, So sorry to hear of your accident.  Hope the healing/rehab goes well.  I think your palate will be ok.  When I've been away from booze for a while because of the flu, etc., I experience the same palate shock as you describe.  But it's similar to when I first tasted distilled spirits.  "How do people drink this?" I guess it's what they call "an acquired taste".  And, I think you can acquire it again much faster if you've already done it once. 

 

Again, best wishes for a speedy recovery.  And, I'm in Orinda, only a few miles from Berkeley so, if you need help with something, give me a holler.  I'm retired so I've got time. 

Fred

[kevinbrink]

A more recent G-R than any of my other recent additions, I had passed by this for long enough and decided today was the day to add it to my small collection as these things seem to be getting harder and harder to find. 

[HoustonNit]

I had the last pour of a locally made, barrel aged apple brandy today from the Piccardy/Normandy region. This is one that based on the type of wine bottle it was put in it was likely bottled in the 70s. Really fantastic stuff.



The way this worked was most locals in these small farming villages would have a small orchard. They’d produce there own cider. A guy with a still on a wagon would come to the villages and hang out at the bar. The locals would come and he’d he’d make brandy from there cider. I believe a combination of laws changing plus the old timers dying meant this awesome tradition is gone.

Picked up a couple of bottles yesterday from a neighbor. Sadly these weren’t aged in the cider barrels and from the bottles I believe where bottled in the mid 90s to early 2000’s. These seem to have come of the still much hotter than the previous bottles from the 70s. Still once you add a little water it really opens up and it clearly has that apple smell on the nose and palate. I should be able to bring back a bottle of this.

[WhiskeyBlender]

4 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

I had the last pour of a locally made, barrel aged apple brandy today from the Piccardy/Normandy region. This is one that based on the type of wine bottle it was put in it was likely bottled in the 70s. Really fantastic stuff.



The way this worked was most locals in these small farming villages would have a small orchard. They’d produce there own cider. A guy with a still on a wagon would come to the villages and hang out at the bar. The locals would come and he’d he’d make brandy from there cider. I believe a combination of laws changing plus the old timers dying meant this awesome tradition is gone.

Picked up a couple of bottles yesterday from a neighbor. Sadly these weren’t aged in the cider barrels and from the bottles I believe where bottled in the mid 90s to early 2000’s. These seem to have come of the still much hotter than the previous bottles from the 70s. Still once you add a little water it really opens up and it clearly has that apple smell on the nose and palate. I should be able to bring back a bottle of this.

This is excellent reporting from the Normandy front, @HoustonNit. Very interesting stuff indeed. Have you had a chance to visit the distilleries we discussed? Either way, please keep your travel updates coming! 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 8/15/2019 at 5:24 PM, kevinbrink said:

A more recent G-R than any of my other recent additions, I had passed by this for long enough and decided today was the day to add it to my small collection as these things seem to be getting harder and harder to find. 

@kevinbrink, have you had a chance to crack it open? If I'm seeing this right, it is from 2012? If so, that means it is "Joe juice," (Joe Corley, Hubert's assistant distiller who took over after Hubert left). What do you think of it? 

 

[kevinbrink]

Just now, WhiskeyBlender said:

@kevinbrink, have you had a chance to crack it open? If I'm seeing this right, it is from 2012? If so, that means it is "Joe juice," (Joe Corley, Hubert's assistant distiller who took over after Hubert left). What do you think of it? 

 

Not yet, it is indeed from 2012 and the only thing they still knew is it is apparently a blend of Colombard, Viognier, Zinfandel & Chardonnay, when I do crack it I'll certainly post. Hope your taste buds are coming around, mine are still a bit frayed but coming around. 

[HoustonNit]

This is excellent reporting from the Normandy front, [mention=12713]HoustonNit[/mention]. Very interesting stuff indeed. Have you had a chance to visit the distilleries we discussed? Either way, please keep your travel updates coming! 
 
Cheers,
Nancy

Leaving today. Will do the Normandy beaches today and tomorrow will visit the distilleries.

[HoustonNit]

Had an excellent Hors D’Age at the hotel last night. Very different than the moonshine apple brandy I’ve been drinking. Tasted like Thomas Handy rye which was surprising.

[HoustonNit]

Ok thanks so much to Nancy for the recommendations. Made it to both spots Nancy recommended today.

 

First stop was Christian Drouin. Very nice distillery grounds.

 

What I believe was there original still, made from surplus parts from WWII, the base being a Dodge truck.

 

 

Similar concept to the still on a wagon from my wife’s region but on a larger scale.

 

They bought this beautiful new still from Cognac in 2016.

 

 

 

 

 

They used a variety of barrels for aging, they didn’t mention bourbon but wine, cognac, Sherry and port. They also use these massive barrels for storing distillate. 2500 liters or around 660 gallons.

 

 

 

They mark the year, amount in the barrel and % alcohol.

 

Notice the 2016 has % alcohol of 71.39%, up from there entry proof of 70% and 2,255 liters.

 

The barrel from 1999 has dropped a consider amount only 46.71% and 1,899 liters.

 

 

More barrels in the storage barn.

 

 

 

Apparently if I understood correctly they don’t add sugar or yeast or anything during fermentation. They just smash the apples and leave it alone. Quite fascinating.

 

I think Drouin has potential but I honestly didn’t care for the Hors d’Age, aged at least 15 years. I was somewhat disappointed. Perhaps not one of there best batches and I would’ve liked to try a vintage but oh well. Interested in what will come from the new still.

 

By this point my kiddo had enough of boring distilleries and D-Day memorials and museums. We went to Chateu Du Breuil as well. Really beautiful facility and grounds. Wish I spent more time here. Did try there 12 and 20 year as well as 13 year barrel proof non filtered barrel. All where to me much nicer than what Drouin had. I ended up buying a bottle of the 20 year which I Plano opening tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

Last I tried to make a trip to Cidre 2 Table known for Cyril Zangs arguably the most renown cidre in the world. The place is in the middle of no where and they don’t have a retail side and it’s very much a bare bones working facility. They apparently don’t want visitors. I’m going to try to find a near by retailer for there products.

 

 

[kevinbrink]

@WhiskeyBlender determined I would open one of my G-R bottles tonight so I went with the Park Ave bottle (mostly to assess if I should pick up any additional) for a little perspective I grabbed the open Old Havana I have since it's the one I'm most familiar with to get my bearings. Here are my thoughts, for perspective my palate still feels much like I'm running with a sprained ankle to some degree, Old Havana on the nose I get a big whiff of maple syrup with some tropical fruit, palate follows suit with a touch of smoky oak which might be unnoticeable to others but I'm pretty sensitive to it right now. The Park ave bottle on the nose leads with dark wine notes but after a few minutes in the glass moves over to something sweeter that I can't quite put my finger on, the 3 % extra ABV is evident on the palate and I get some red currant or something else kind of jammy definitely more fruit forward along with an Oloroso like nuttiness  and oak is there but not as prevalent it's bit richer and the finish is longer, I'll probably pick up another.  Looking forward to seeing how this evolves with the ol' taster.

[HoustonNit]

Opened the Chateau de Breuil 20 year. Really nice has the fruit characteristics and wonderful nose while picking up some of the aged barrel characteristics. Punched well above it’s 81 proof as well. I’m enjoying it.

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 8/18/2019 at 6:51 PM, kevinbrink said:

Not yet, it is indeed from 2012 and the only thing they still knew is it is apparently a blend of Colombard, Viognier, Zinfandel & Chardonnay, when I do crack it I'll certainly post. Hope your taste buds are coming around, mine are still a bit frayed but coming around. 

@kevinbrink, I'm hoping it should still be pretty good. I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of the way Zinfandel and Chardonnay when distilled, but I'm really curious about how that blend turned out. Chardonnay can have some lemony, buttery type notes (think a buttery Chardonnay, which is a product of malolactic fermentation. ML fermentations add lots of fat and body to a blend, but a lot of it can shorten the nose in a blend). Zin often has a jammy quality when distilled, which again, isn't one of my personal favorite notes. 

 

Nonetheless, I'm super curious how this blend turned out. Please report back once you've tasted it! I'm dying to hear about it. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 8/22/2019 at 2:18 AM, HoustonNit said:

Opened the Chateau de Breuil 20 year. Really nice has the fruit characteristics and wonderful nose while picking up some of the aged barrel characteristics. Punched well above it’s 81 proof as well. I’m enjoying it.

Oh wow! I absolutely love the Chateau du Breuil 20 year old! Makes me ready for fall weather.

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 8/22/2019 at 2:18 AM, HoustonNit said:

Opened the Chateau de Breuil 20 year. Really nice has the fruit characteristics and wonderful nose while picking up some of the aged barrel characteristics. Punched well above it’s 81 proof as well. I’m enjoying it.

@HoustonNit, I know its a holiday weekend and all, but when you have the time, I'd really LOVE to hear more about your trip to Normandy. After all, autumn weather is just around the corner, and as those of us who are Calvados fans know, apple brandy season will be here soon! 

 

Hope the rest of your trip was terrific, and can't wait to see more pics and hear more details! 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

 

 

[HoustonNit]

Nancy I’m actually back in France, in Paris for work. Sitting in a bar called Harry’s New York, thinking about getting a pour of Chartreuse.

[HoustonNit]

[mention=12713]HoustonNit[/mention], I know its a holiday weekend and all, but when you have the time, I'd really LOVE to hear more about your trip to Normandy. After all, autumn weather is just around the corner, and as those of us who are Calvados fans know, apple brandy season will be here soon! 
 
Hope the rest of your trip was terrific, and can't wait to see more pics and hear more details! 
 
Cheers,
Nancy
 
 

I wish I had more to add unfortunately, partly due to poor logistics on mine and my in-laws side I really didn’t get to see much more of Calvados than I posted. That along with a cranky kid stuck in war museums and memorial meant I was forced to rush it.

As you mentioned the 20 year Château du Breuil was phenomenal.

I do have pictures related to the D-Day invasion,




Omaha beach crazy to think what happened here.




Looks like a link golf course but those sand traps where made via bomb.




Going through here and looking through here and looking at the names of all these young men is a very difficult.


A couple of pics of the beautiful Château du Breuil, my pictures aren’t worthy.

[fosmith]

This stuff is great and well worth seeking out!  120 proof but so drinkable and just exploding with flavor on the palate.  Glad I have a few more of these.  Still available at K&L... 

[Marekv8]

Found this 2005 bottle at the shop, surely part of a past competitive set, and fitted it with a fresh cork. Huge bite and wood galore for 40% ABV.

 

[tanstaafl2]

Went to a tasting with Nicolas Palazzi of PM spirits earlier this week and tried a few cognac's and Armagnac's. A nice tasting and in particular a couple of really nice bottles.

 

 

 

I managed to forget to take a picture of the Armagnac bottles. Always nice to see an overproof option from Goury (this one was at 110 prof I believe) and I have he Navarre which I already love. 

 

The one I really liked that was new to me was the Domaine D'Aurensan 20yo Tenareze Armagnac. Interesting approach to creating the bottle by blending vintages that were 20yo and older. And the oak from the barrels come from their estate. Not unexpectedly it was a bit spendy though.

[Kpiz]

Went to a tasting with Nicolas Palazzi of PM spirits earlier this week and tried a few cognac's and Armagnac's. A nice tasting and in particular a couple of really nice bottles.
 

 

 
I managed to forget to take a picture of the Armagnac bottles. Always nice to see an overproof option from Goury (this one was at 110 prof I believe) and I have he Navarre which I already love. 
 
The one I really liked that was new to me was the Domaine D'Aurensan 20yo Tenareze Armagnac. Interesting approach to creating the bottle by blending vintages that were 20yo and older. And the oak from the barrels come from their estate. Not unexpectedly it was a bit spendy though.

Sounds like an excellent tasting. I have yet to try the Aurensan bottles but I need to. Supposedly they do not make an effort to maintain a profile from batch to batch, which makes sense considering the small number of barrels they use per batch.

I just finished off a bottle of Julien Frémont Calvados Reserve. It has a very nice apple flavor but is much more expensive than other comparably aged Calvados (it was $75 or so). It’s nice to try some of these smaller producers but I wish it was more cost effective. It’s hard to compete with the Pacory Calvados that K&L brings in.

[kevinbrink]

9 hours ago, Kpiz said:

 

Sounds like an excellent tasting. I have yet to try the Aurensan bottles but I need to. Supposedly they do not make an effort to maintain a profile from batch to batch, which makes sense considering the small number of barrels they use per batch.

I just finished off a bottle of Julien Frémont Calvados Reserve. It has a very nice apple flavor but is much more expensive than other comparably aged Calvados (it was $75 or so). It’s nice to try some of these smaller producers but I wish it was more cost effective. It’s hard to compete with the Pacory Calvados that K&L brings in.

 

It's been a while nice to see you back!