The French Spirits Forum- Cognac, Armagnac, Calvados

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:05 PM, KyleCBreese said:

@WhiskeyBlender I finally went out and grabbed the Old Havana and the first impressions are Wow! Rich and creamy to start, almost reminds me of an Old Forester Birthday Bourbon. But the finish is full of tropical fruit, almost like a dried fruit trail mix with mango and banana chips. Too bad the store only had one bottle. 

Hey Fellas, so I haven't been on the forum much lately. I just can't seem to get over this flu-bug thing that's down in my bronchial tubes. Just when I start to feel better, it knocks me down again. 

 

At any rate, @KyleCBreese, I'm glad you like the Old Havana! Yes, it is very rich and creamy, with lots of tropical fruit. It usually has a little brown baking spice in it, too, but I don't know if your particular bottling has those notes. 

 

@kevinbrink, I'm absolutely thrilled to hear that you procured that bottle "For the Lover of Fine Cigars"! I don't know how long it was sitting on that shelf, but by the looks of it, it was definitely a long time. Hopefully there won't be any UV deterioration/oxidation issues, but let's assume the best. Please let me know when you crack into that bottle. I can't wait to hear what you think of it. 

 

I see that there is also a bottle of G-R Shareholders Reserve. Although it is certainly well-made of course, for whatever reason, I personally never liked what I tasted of that blend. It certainly isn't bad- not in the least- but it just never seemed that interesting to my palate. If you buy it, let me know, as I'd like to get your thoughts on it. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

 

[kevinbrink]

Get well @WhiskeyBlender and thanks as always for the further insight, once that bottle is open you will be the first to know.

[smokinjoe]

Sorry to hesr Nancy that you are battling that bug.  I hope you get to feeling better soon!  

[kevinbrink]

FYI French spirits are on sale today at Astor

[Marekv8]

This seems French in a "French Fries" or "French Toast" sorta way. I put it up against a Rémy Martin 1738 bottled in ~2002 and it came in a distant second.

 

[kevinbrink]

[kevinbrink]

@WhiskeyBlender So I found two more bottles of the G-R for For the Lover of Fine Cigars, on sight alone they look to be a different batch than the other, the liquid itself is darker (darker as well than the open Old Havana I have) and the bottle itself has different markings located on the side of the bottom of the bottle rather than the underside. Also there is considerably more sediment on the bottom of the bottle so it looks like there wasn't as much filtration going on so maybe that is part of the color difference. 

[HoustonNit]

[mention=12388]WhiskeyBlender[/mention] So I found two more bottles of the G-R for For the Lover of Fine Cigars, on sight alone they look to be a different batch than the other, the liquid itself is darker (darker as well than the open Old Havana I have) and the bottle itself has different markings located on the side of the bottom of the bottle rather than the underside. Also there is considerably more sediment on the bottom of the bottle so it looks like there wasn't as much filtration going on so maybe that is part of the color difference. 

Wow these look really interesting. I know you mentioned pricing before but what are these going for in the NY area? I’ve seen some of these, maybe not the cigar blends or Havana here in Houston.

Thanks

[kevinbrink]

2 minutes ago, HoustonNit said:

 

Wow these look really interesting. I know you mentioned pricing before but what are these going for in the NY area? I’ve seen some of these, maybe not the cigar blends or Havana here in Houston.

Thanks

 

Left to Right I paid $89.99, 100.99, 89.99 and the last one is the same as #2. The same store I grabbed the most recent ones from had a 1993 Domaine Boigneres I almost sprung for as well, it was bottled in 2004 though and $120 seemed steep for an 11 year old, seems at some point this place was moving some brandy though.

[HoustonNit]

Left to Right I paid $89.99, 100.99, 89.99 and the last one is the same as #2. The same store I grabbed the most recent ones from had a 1993 Domaine Boigneres I almost sprung for as well, it was bottled in 2004 though and $120 seemed steep for an 11 year old, seems at some point this place was moving some brandy though.

Thanks, pricing seems reasonable for what’s in the bottle.

How would you compare to Cognacs and Armagnac. My experience is somewhat limited. I seem to have had more luck with Armagnac, maybe more complex vs. cognac and certainly more interesting and a couple that are out of this world.

[kevinbrink]

9 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

 

Thanks, pricing seems reasonable for what’s in the bottle.

How would you compare to Cognacs and Armagnac. My experience is somewhat limited. I seem to have had more luck with Armagnac, maybe more complex vs. cognac and certainly more interesting and a couple that are out of this world.

 

To my tastes Old Havana leans a little more towards Armagnac though it is also definitely it's own thing, I would say (and my notes are based on only a few pours 4ish months ago) it's a little more delicate than most of the Armagnac I've had though I don't necessarily think of that as a negative if that makes sense. At some point I plan on circling back and grabbing a bottle of the Christmas blend I stumbled upon a few pages back. Since none of these are particularly easy to come by around here I've been grabbing what I see particularly the really dusty stuff.

[WhiskeyBlender]

@kevinbrink, very well done on your G-R finds! Those prices seem great. I know that at one time at least, there were brandies in the Old Havana blend that were about 25 years old, so really that's a steal. 

 

@HoustonNit, since I used to work at Germain-Robin, I can tell you that it will be somewhat different in that it will be a lot more fruit forward than what you usually find in French brandies, either Cognac or Armagnac. This is because in California, it is warmer here, and so the brix level will also be a little higher than what you would find in France, where there will be more acidity to the grapes. You'll find this more fruit forward style in other Alambic Brandies too, such as the much esteemed Osocalis alambic brandy. 

 

Another big difference is that here in the States, we have no restrictions on the grape varietals used in brandy production, whereas there are very strict rules about which ones can be used for Cognac and Armagnac production in France. Thus, in CA at least, some of the very best varietals to use are varietals such as Pinot Noir, Viognier, Valdiguie (in CA it is known as Napa Gamay), Sauvignon Blanc, and French Colombard. With the red grape varietals, a technique called "Blanc de Noirs," or "white from black," is used so that the fresh juice is taken off the red grape skins in order to not have the heavy tannins that red grapes impart. Also, being able to use red grape varietals can offer more fruitiness and body into the brandy. 

 

Otherwise, the production techniques used for New World alambic brandies such Osocalis and Germain-Robin come from the very traditional, artisanal Cognac world (NOT what the big producers such as Remy Martin do, and it shouldn't be confused with that). For example, my mentor, Hubert Germain-Robin's family had been distilling Cognac since 1782. Dan Farber of Osocalis studied with Hubert too, and he's augmented his production studies in France over the past 3 decades as well.  

 

At any rate, I think you'll find that there is much in common between the Old World brandies and the New World alambic-style brandies, although the New World alambic-style is more fruit forward, whereas the Old World style has a little more minerality and acidity. The Germain-Robin Old Havana is definitely more Armagnac-like, and I think @kevinbrink does a great job at describing this in his post above. 

 

I hope this helps. It is a lot of fun to compare styles. I personally love them all, and enjoy all of their unique characteristics. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[HoustonNit]

@WhiskeyBlender Wow once again your knowledge and “inside knowledge” is so informative. Reading your posts are probably some of my favorite on this site. These are hard to find but there’s a couple of stores that have some in Houston and will look into them a bit next time I’m in that part of town.

On a slightly different note I’ll be in France this summer and will try to make a day trip to check out some Calvados producers a couple hours drive from where I’ll be staying. I’ll ask for recs as I get closer.

[WhiskeyBlender]

1 minute ago, HoustonNit said:

@WhiskeyBlender Wow once again your knowledge and “inside knowledge” is so informative. Reading your posts are probably some of my favorite on this site. These are hard to find but there’s a couple of stores that have some in Houston and will look into them a bit next time I’m in that part of town.

On a slightly different note I’ll be in France this summer and will try to make a day trip to check out some Calvados producers a couple hours drive from where I’ll be staying. I’ll ask for recs as I get closer.

Wow, I'd be very happy to give you some recommendations for Calvados producers to visit. I'm "chartreuse" with envy that you'll be in France in the summer too! I love it there in the summer, since I usually visit around November at the beginning of distillation season. If you're going to be in Normandy, that's a very good time to go. Otherwise, it is pretty cold and dreary, although incredibly beautiful. 

[HoustonNit]

Wow, I'd be very happy to give you some recommendations for Calvados producers to visit. I'm "chartreuse" with envy that you'll be in France in the summer too! I love it there in the summer, since I usually visit around November at the beginning of distillation season. If you're going to be in Normandy, that's a very good time to go. Otherwise, it is pretty cold and dreary, although incredibly beautiful. 

Ha I use to go there in fall and Winter usually, until I had a kid. Will be in Normandy/Picardie and agree summer is the best time but I have a weird affinity for cold and dreary coming from Buffalo, NY but residing in Houston.

[WhiskeyBlender]

1 hour ago, HoustonNit said:

 

Ha I use to go there in fall and Winter usually, until I had a kid. Will be in Normandy/Picardie and agree summer is the best time but I have a weird affinity for cold and dreary coming from Buffalo, NY but residing in Houston.

 

You're from Buffalo, NY? Wow, I didn't realize that! I have a very distinct memory of visiting Buffalo back in Sept. of 1983. At any rate, please let me know when you're headed to the Normandy region and I'll be happy to give you some pointers of what Calvados distilleries to visit. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[Marekv8]

One of my favorite Lincoln Road Package PS offerings. Was a gamble as I had to pre-pay for it five months in advance, but well worth the wait.

 

 

 

[KyleCBreese]

Nancy - any experience with this one?

 

@WhiskeyBlender

[EarthQuake]

33 minutes ago, KyleCBreese said:

Nancy - any experience with this one?

 

@WhiskeyBlender

I've got a bottle of this, it's good, but not $190 good in my opinion. I paid $200 and was disappointed for the price. Not that it's bad, just that for $100-120 you can get Armagnac that is as good or better, namely from Darroze or Dartigalongue.

[HoustonNit]

Birthday pour, this is a really fantastic pour, 1980, bottled in 2010, 98 proof.

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 4/5/2019 at 8:31 PM, KyleCBreese said:

Nancy - any experience with this one?

 

@WhiskeyBlender

Hey @KyleCBreese, sorry for the very delayed response. Yes, I have a lot of experience with this one, and with many of the Boingneres bottlings. I've met the owner twice, Martine Lafitte, and I've bought several bottles from her personally, right out of her house, in the small southwest town of Bastide de l'Armagnac. I'm a big fan of this bottling, and as I am with most of the bottlings from this domaine. The oldest I have from her is from 1975, which is an exceptional bottle. 

 

Sadly, she is the last of her family line since they began distilling in 1807, and when I was last in the region back in November, I heard that she is trying to sell the domaine so that she can retire. Trust me, this distillery is way more "craft" than most any so-called craft distillery here in the States. Maybe I should use the term artisanal instead. Like her cousin, Pierre Laberdolive, the proprietor/distiller/blender at Laberdolive Armagnac, they fell the local Gascon oak trees on their property and season the staves right behind the rick house, known as a "chai" (pronounced "shay"). She works with the local cooper, Gilles Bartholomo, who has been working with her family since their respective grandfathers worked together. Every aspect, from growing the grape varietals of Folle Blanch, Colombard, Baco, and Ugni Blanc, down to the fermentation, distillation, maturation, blending, bottling, etc., she does, just as her father and grandfather did before her. She sells the bottles right out of her living room too. 

 

My French is atrocious, and her English is very poor, but when I've visited her, somehow we manage to communicate and have many laughs together. She's a chain smoker and quite an eccentric lady, but she's certainly larger than life. 

 

It may not be a "technically" perfect Armagnac, as sometimes there can be a little heads, or slight acetone and ethyl acetate notes on the nose that tend to blow off once it aerates in the glass, but it is a great example of a way of life and a way of true hands-on production that is quickly dying. My advice would be to buy and enjoy it for what it is. 

 

I hope that helps. Please let me know if you end up buying it. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

 

Cheers,

Nancy

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by WhiskeyBlender

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 4/8/2019 at 8:26 PM, HoustonNit said:

Birthday pour, this is a really fantastic pour, 1980, bottled in 2010, 98 proof.

A penny for your thoughts/tasting notes?

 

[HoustonNit]

A penny for your thoughts/tasting notes? [emoji6]
 

My thoughts are nothing compared to a true professional like yourself with a nose and palette nothing like mine. You’re on the NBA All Star team and I’m playing pick up basketball at the Y and the only reason I’m not sitting on the bench is because I can pass, hustle and get rebounds.

Not only that but I’m you’ve been exposed to so many great pours compared to my relatively limited exposure.

With all that said I mean it’s really fantastic, a top 5 pour for me. If someone offered this to me now at $200+ a bottle I’d buy a case and I’m a super cheapo.

It’s more fruit forward, orchard fruit like apples than most anything I’ve had and in a very nice balanced way. You can taste the age but it’s aged really gracefully. I’ve heard stories of people complaining of 20+ Armagnac having too much oak and I get none of that. It has the taste of vanilla and other flavors I attribute to well aged barrel spirits.

Hmm might need to head downstairs to the bunker for another pour.

[Guss West]

I've been reading up on Armagnac lately. 

This is exactly my kind of artisinal spirit! 

 

I'm about to make my way back thru the thread, but if any of you kind folk would like to give me a list of bottles to look out for, I would be most grateful for a head-start down this new rabbit hole.  PM or in thread replies welcome!

 

Happy Friday.  Prost!!

[EarthQuake]

I finished off my bottle of Darroze Resiton 1995 the other day, so I put in an order for a couple more bottles. Since I was paying for shipping I threw in the cheapest Darroze the shop had just for fun. Monturon 2003, 12 years old, 100-ish proof. This is quite enjoyable, and was only $55! It's not the most complex thing in the world, but it's rather good. I'm glad I took a chance on this one.