The French Spirits Forum- Cognac, Armagnac, Calvados

[kaporkle]

Thank you fosmith,

I ended up going with the DeLord 1981, though I probably won't crack it open soon. I noticed a few pages back you were finishing off some Daniel Bouju Brut De Fut. That was some excellent stuff and I wish I could find another bottle. Thanks as well for letting me know about the fb group. Maybe if I go down this rabbit hole far enough I'll finally be tempted to get a facebook.

 

 

[DeepCover]

This was a really nice bottle. I’m really happy I got it. Nice, rich prune and apricot notes. I’m leaning toward a vintage Delord for my next purchase.

 

[Radioyada]

Opened at my in-laws. 
 

 

[LCWoody]

I have very little experience with Armagnac, but at a little bourbon tasting this past week one of the guys brought one. And wow this was good, so good I’m probably going to hunt one down. When it’s good juice, it doesn’t matter what category of whiskey it falls under. 

[tanstaafl2]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:05 AM, LCWoody said:

I have very little experience with Armagnac, but at a little bourbon tasting this past week one of the guys brought one. And wow this was good, so good I’m probably going to hunt one down. When it’s good juice, it doesn’t matter what category of whiskey it falls under. 
 

One of the rare cases where "juice" is not an unfair description! Because of course Armagnac is a form of Brandy and made from grapes (and therefore not a whiskey...). 

 

Unlike calling whiskey of any sort juice, a particular pet peeve of a BOTY (who will remain nameless but earned the title in 2013... ) because of course it is made from grain, not grapes.

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:05 AM, LCWoody said:

I have very little experience with Armagnac, but at a little bourbon tasting this past week one of the guys brought one. And wow this was good, so good I’m probably going to hunt one down. When it’s good juice, it doesn’t matter what category of whiskey it falls under. 

@LCWoodyI absolutely love Château de Pellehaut! That's a great pour, and now that Château de Busca-Maniban is no more, Pellehaut is IMHO the next best of the Tenareze Armagnacs.

 

In fact, I'll take the next flight out of the SF Bay Area and I'll be at your house ASAP. What's your address? I'll bring my own nosing glass. 

 

@Radioyada, I haven't had that particular Tenareze Armagnac before. What are your thoughts? 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Edited December 14, 2020 by WhiskeyBlender

[LCWoody]

2 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

One of the rare cases where "juice" is not an unfair description! Because of course Armagnac is a form of Brandy and made from grapes (and therefore not a whiskey...). 

 

Unlike calling whiskey of any sort juice, a particular pet peeve of a BOTY (who will remain nameless but earned the title in 2013... ) because of course it is made from grain, not grapes.

It took about 15 to 20 minutes after I posted it that I knew

 I was going to get scolded for making that statement about whiskey..... 

[Radioyada]

1 hour ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

 

@Radioyada, I haven't had that particular Tenareze Armagnac before. What are your thoughts? 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Well...that was my first go with Armagnac, and I only had the one pour so I will have another soon and get back with you on that. It was fantastic tho, and everyone loved it.  Now I have to chase down a few more bottles of different years for gifts. 
 

The bottle @LCWoody posted looks great also. Now I have some online searching to do...

 

[flahute]

51 minutes ago, LCWoody said:

It took about 15 to 20 minutes after I posted it that I knew

 I was going to get scolded for making that statement about whiskey..... 

LOL! I let it slide because you've had a rough year!

[fosmith]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:05 AM, LCWoody said:

I have very little experience with Armagnac, but at a little bourbon tasting this past week one of the guys brought one. And wow this was good, so good I’m probably going to hunt one down. When it’s good juice, it doesn’t matter what category of whiskey it falls under. 

I have a bottle of 1994 Ch. de Pellehaut currently open and it's fantastic.  I can only imagine how good  that '73 must be. 

 

I'm amazed at what a fantastic value Armagnac is.  My '94 was in oak for 24 years and cost well under $100.  The Armagnac situation today is like bourbon 15-20 years ago when Pappy/BTAC sat on shelves for under $100.  When the world catches on to Armagnac (and it's starting to), it's going to become crazy because the supply of these artisanal spirits is minuscule compared to what bourbon producers have aging in their warehouses.

[smokinjoe]

How is “Pellehaut” properly pronounced?  While we’re at it, please throw in “Tenareze” for good measure.  . Thanks!

[tanstaafl2]

2 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

How is “Pellehaut” properly pronounced?  While we’re at it, please throw in “Tenareze” for good measure.  . Thanks!

Tenareze

 

Pellehaut

[smokinjoe]

2 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Tenareze

 

Pellehaut

Wow!  I’m now glad that I didn’t call Jat yet to see if he had any Pella-Hot  on the shelf...  .   Yeesh...

 

 

[WhiskeyBlender]

9 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

How is “Pellehaut” properly pronounced?  While we’re at it, please throw in “Tenareze” for good measure.  . Thanks!

@smokinjoe and @tanstaafl2, the people in that region of France actually DO pronounce the "t" at the end of the word, as in "Pella-hot," so you would have been just fine Joe! 

[flahute]

2 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@smokinjoe and @tanstaafl2, the people in that region of France actually DO pronounce the "t" at the end of the word, as in "Pella-hot," so you would have been just fine Joe! 

So the other pronunciation is how the fancy Parisians say it.

[fosmith]

13 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

@smokinjoe and @tanstaafl2, the people in that region of France actually DO pronounce the "t" at the end of the word, as in "Pella-hot," so you would have been just fine Joe! 

Hi Nancy,  I've heard that and always wondered if it were true.  So the Gascons (Gasconais?) would pronounce Lous Pibous as "Loose Peeboose"? 

Fred

[fosmith]

Anyone remember this one that K&L used to carry in the early to mid 2000s?  I had this bottle squirreled away and opened it not too long ago and it's fantastic!  Here are my notes. 

color: light copper/bronze

Nose:  A lot going on.  Soft and sweet.  nutmeg, cinnamon, figs

Palate: Great length and focus on the palate.  Fruity but not flabby or cloying.  Vanilla fudge and sweet cream.  A nice savory/spicy note at the back of the palate. 

Long, satisfying finish.  Not watery at all despite being only 40%

[Guss West]

I've just begun with Armagnac this year and finished a young Tenareze and the Artez Ugni recently.    

Wanted to pace myself on opening more Armagnac bottles, and today is the day we bring out the next cohort.  

 

Between Nancy's recent proclamation of the official start of "Armagnac Season" AND her frequent recommendations of the Darroze Les Grands Assemblages line, the truth became self-evident that it was time to bring them out and open them. 

 

So, the Darroze LGA 8, 12, 20, and 30 year bottlings are all now upstairs; acclimating themselves after being abruptly awakened from their slumber in the cool, damp cellar.  I think I can hear them murmuring crossly at me in French.  

 

Nancy, I really enjoyed reading the April interview that highlights some of the cool things you are doing in the world of fine Spirits.  Thanks so much @WhiskeyBlender for sharing your passion and knowledge with us here!!  

 

Open to any suggestions on unique vertical tasting or blending comparisons among this clutch of Darroze.  Any thoughts on the 40 year old Darroze LGA?  It recently became available to me at ~$180.  

  

 

 

 

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/17/2020 at 3:14 PM, Guss West said:

I've just begun with Armagnac this year and finished a young Tenareze and the Artez Ugni recently.    

Wanted to pace myself on opening more Armagnac bottles, and today is the day we bring out the next cohort.  

 

Between Nancy's recent proclamation of the official start of "Armagnac Season" AND her frequent recommendations of the Darroze Les Grands Assemblages line, the truth became self-evident that it was time to bring them out and open them. 

 

So, the Darroze LGA 8, 12, 20, and 30 year bottlings are all now upstairs; acclimating themselves after being abruptly awakened from their slumber in the cool, damp cellar.  I think I can hear them murmuring crossly at me in French.  

 

Nancy, I really enjoyed reading the April interview that highlights some of the cool things you are doing in the world of fine Spirits.  Thanks so much @WhiskeyBlender for sharing your passion and knowledge with us here!!  

 

Open to any suggestions on unique vertical tasting or blending comparisons among this clutch of Darroze.  Any thoughts on the 40 year old Darroze LGA?  It recently became available to me at ~$180.  

  

 

 

 

@Guss West, wow, if you can snag a bottle of the Darroze LGA 40 year for $180, by all means, grab it!!!! Or......buy it and send it to me, I'll be happy to drink it for you! 

 

In all seriousness, I think you'll enjoy doing a vertical tasting with those bottles, if you haven't already done so. Interestingly enough, I've found that many people who live in the Armagnac region or who are themselves producers there tend to favor younger Armagnacs (not necessarily the Darroze, just younger Armagnacs in general). They've told me that they really like the fact that the fruit shows through so much more. Thus, the LGA 8 and 12 year might not have the kind of complexity that the 20+ will have, but they sure make great daily drinkers!

 

If you can ever find the Darroze LGA 50 and 60 year old bottlings, grab those up as well. I personally think that's one of the best deals out there for the money. 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:01 AM, fosmith said:

Anyone remember this one that K&L used to carry in the early to mid 2000s?  I had this bottle squirreled away and opened it not too long ago and it's fantastic!  Here are my notes. 

color: light copper/bronze

 

 

Nose:  A lot going on.  Soft and sweet.  nutmeg, cinnamon, figs

 

 

Palate: Great length and focus on the palate.  Fruity but not flabby or cloying.  Vanilla fudge and sweet cream.  A nice savory/spicy note at the back of the palate. 

 

 

Long, satisfying finish.  Not watery at all despite being only 40%

@fosmith, yes, I sure do remember that bottling! If I recall correctly, K&L's former spirits buyer was a HUGE Cognac, Armagnac, and all-round general brandy fan, and she used to bring in all kinds of grape-y goodness! That bottling you've got sounds amazing. Enjoy!

 

Cheers,

Nancy 

[JoeTerp]

Picked up these 32 year old picks.  As I'm very unfamiliar with Armagnac, I have a question on the Cellar: Wet/Dry box.  What does that mean?

[IowaJeff]

18 hours ago, JoeTerp said:

Picked up these 32 year old picks.  As I'm very unfamiliar with Armagnac, I have a question on the Cellar: Wet/Dry box.  What does that mean?

 

Unlike bourbon, armagnac generally drops in ABV as it ages.  In a dry cellar, like a cement floor warehouse, it will generally drop slower, with more overall evaporation, resulting in a higher ABV.  In a wet cellar, like a damp dirt floor basement of a barn or something, there will be less evaporation and the ABV will drop faster.  I can't personally vouch for flavor profile differences, but I believe dry cellars will tend to more fruit forward armagnac and wet cellars will tend to an oakier, spicier product.  That is painting with a very broad brush, however, as there are so many factors, including type of grape, the year, time in new oak and in the barrel generally, cellar, racking process, etc.

 

I don't think I've had this particular La Freche, but every La Freche I've had has been very good, so enjoy!

[fosmith]

20 hours ago, JoeTerp said:

Picked up these 32 year old picks.  As I'm very unfamiliar with Armagnac, I have a question on the Cellar: Wet/Dry box.  What does that mean?

Welcome to the Yak rabbit hole.  I think you'll be very impressed by these.  La Freche is one of the most highly regarded of the L'Encantada domaines.  If you want to learn more about Armagnac, I recommend that you join the Serious Brandy Facebook group.  There's a ton of information, discussion and tasting notes there for Armagnac, Cognac, Calvados and other domestic and imported brandies. 

[JoeTerp]

14 hours ago, IowaJeff said:

Unlike bourbon, armagnac generally drops in ABV as it ages.  In a dry cellar, like a cement floor warehouse, it will generally drop slower, with more overall evaporation, resulting in a higher ABV.  In a wet cellar, like a damp dirt floor basement of a barn or something, there will be less evaporation and the ABV will drop faster.  I can't personally vouch for flavor profile differences, but I believe dry cellars will tend to more fruit forward armagnac and wet cellars will tend to an oakier, spicier product.  That is painting with a very broad brush, however, as there are so many factors, including type of grape, the year, time in new oak and in the barrel generally, cellar, racking process, etc.

 

I don't think I've had this particular La Freche, but every La Freche I've had has been very good, so enjoy!

Thanks that is very helpful info.  And the wet cellar certainly aligns with the ABV drop as I'm pretty sure these are cask strength and barely above 40% ABV

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:51 AM, IowaJeff said:

Unlike bourbon, armagnac generally drops in ABV as it ages.  In a dry cellar, like a cement floor warehouse, it will generally drop slower, with more overall evaporation, resulting in a higher ABV.  In a wet cellar, like a damp dirt floor basement of a barn or something, there will be less evaporation and the ABV will drop faster.  I can't personally vouch for flavor profile differences, but I believe dry cellars will tend to more fruit forward armagnac and wet cellars will tend to an oakier, spicier product.  That is painting with a very broad brush, however, as there are so many factors, including type of grape, the year, time in new oak and in the barrel generally, cellar, racking process, etc.

 

I don't think I've had this particular La Freche, but every La Freche I've had has been very good, so enjoy!

@JoeTerp & @IowaJeff, yes, this is generally correct, but not so regarding the flavor profile differences. On the topic of cellar hygrometry, humid cellars, known as a "chai" (pronounced "shay"), are often underground, or at least are on a bottom floor. The proof of the eaux-de-vie ("EDV") falls very slowly over time. As @IowaJeff noted, they often tend to have thick stone walls with dirt floors or gravel floors over the dirt, which helps bring out the natural humidification from the earth. The relative humidity in these cellars will usually be between 70 to 90%. Because of the loss of alcohol content, these EDV tend to be mellower and much rounder on the palate. However, if the humid chais become too humid (i.e., between 90 to 100%), there is a danger that the EDV will drop too quickly in alcohol and will then become "flabby" (this is where the spirit loses all structure and basically becomes like oak water). 

 

Dry chais, on the other hand, tend to be on upper floors. Because of the evaporation of water, these EDV tend to be drier, spicier and oakier, with more concentration on the nose and palate. The relative humidity of these chais tend to be around 40 to 70%. 

 

Some Cognac, Calvados, and Armagnac producers will start their new EDV in dry cellars, and then move them to humid cellars as the stock gets older. Interestingly, other producers will do the opposite of this (i.e., start in the humid chais then move to dry chais before bottling). Some Cellar Masters will combine EDV stock from a dry chai with EDV from a humid chai in order to create a brandy that has both characteristics (dry and spicy with round and soft). Some producers, such as Cognac Frapin, will take this process to a whole other level by having humid, semi-humid, dry, and very dry chais in order to have exceptional control over the blending process. 

 

At any rate, hope you enjoy these two Armagnacs! I just used them as examples in a two-week Maturation, Warehousing, and Blending course for a group of international distillers. 

 

Below I've attached a photo of a dry chai and one of a humid chai to give you an idea of what they are like. 

 

Meanwhile, hope you and yours are having a great holiday, and hope you are imbibing well! 

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Edited December 25, 2020 by WhiskeyBlender