Old Weller Antique - Bottle Details Over The Years

[gblick]

Here is thread where I hope to get SB members to post the details found on their dusty (paper label) OWA bottles, in an effort to find correlations in the numbering conventions that may help us to accurately date these gems, and also just for the fun of documenting the history of the bottlings of this fine whiskey.

When posting the details, please try to give as much info as you can, including things like:

-Size of the bottle.

-From Louisville or Frankfort?

-Does it have the "No._____" field on the upper left of the label, and what are the hand-written numbers (or is the field left blank)?

-What is the raised 2-digit number in the glass on the bottom? Sometimes it's VERY faint, or not legible or can't even be found.

-Are there any laser codes on the back or sides of the bottle? Sometimes there are, and sometimes they can't be found or are under the back label. Sometimes there can be more than one code in different locations on the bottle. They could be etched into the glass or printed with ink, and can also be very faint or illegible, as well as sometimes being stretched out (like the bottle was turning too fast while it was being etched).

-UPC codes.

-Does it have a tax strip (real or faux), and/or a government warning on the label?

-Any other details that you can think of.

-Pictures welcome!

Thanks in advance to anyone participating!

Future generations will appreciate this documentation, don't let the history be lost forever!

Edited December 23, 2013 by gblick

[gblick]

I'll start with a couple of bottles.

I bought these together along with one more that got drank when I first bought them. The codes on the tax strips are fairly close together (numerically), and I assume the hand-written codes on the front label were not entered by the same person (I wonder what they mean).

-200ml.

-Louisville, KY.

-Hand-written codes are R-6527 and E-2054.

-Raised 2-digit number on bottom in glass is 85.

-No printed or etched codes can be found on the glass bottle.

-UPC code is 88508-24210.

-Tax strips and no government warnings.

I'm going to say these were bottled in 1985.

I'll try to add more bottles as I have time, and please join in and add bottles of your own with whatever other info/commentary/theories as to deciphering any printed codes, etc. you want to include.

Edited December 23, 2013 by gblick

[WsmataU]

Subscribing. I still owe some answers, but I'll get to it this week, I promise!

[smknjoe]

This thread is great idea, Gus. It certainly takes more than just one or two markers to identify when and where your OWA came from. The oldest 750's I have are from 2005 and the oldest 375's are from 2003 as far as I can tell.

Here is an example of a 750 from 2007:

750ml

Frankfort

No space for the hand written number

Raised/Embossed code on the bottom of the glass says 06

The printed code says it was actually bottled in 2007

UPC 88004

Here is an example of a 375 that I believe is from 2003:

375ml

Frankfort

There is a space for a handwritten number in the top left of the label but it's blank

Embossed number on the bottom of the glass is 03. It's hard to see but it's there. Some are easier to read than others.

The printed code is not in the same format as the 750's. I'm guessing the 03 in the middle of the code stands for 2003.

UPC 88004

[gblick]

Raised/Embossed code on the bottom of the glass says 06

The printed code says it was actually bottled in 2007

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17180[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]17181[/ATTACH]

Joe, can you tell me the method you used to date that 750 using the etched code?

I think I may have read somewhere else on this board that the last four numbers with the colon in the middle (12:56 in your picture) denote the time of day that it was bottled, and the two numbers just before that (07 in your picture) denote the year. But what do the first four characters in that code (4101 in your picture) mean?

Thanks for any insight you can give.

Edited December 25, 2013 by gblick

[smknjoe]

I really only pay attention to the year, but if I remember correctly 41010712:56 would be the 4th month and 101st day of the year 2007 at 12:56 P.M. I'm pretty sure I learned that method from ErichPryde when I PM'd him about this thread here: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?19217-Is-this-Old-Charter-10-a-UD-bottle-or-BT&p=320727&viewfull=1#post320727

Here is part of a PM that he replied to: "it uses a julian code. the day of year will be numerical- 353 would be the 353rd day of the year. the year marker will be before or after, and then you'll have a time stamp (typically)." Maybe someone else can confirm this that knows more about julian codes. The only part that I am confident about is the 0712:56 which would be 2007 at 12:56 P.M. That part seems to be widely accepted as the correct way to date the OWA bottles with julian codes in that format. Now the code on the 375 I showed is a completely different format. I'm not sure about that one at all and would love for someone to verify it for me.

Edited December 25, 2013 by smknjoe

[WsmataU]

I don't have any really old bottles, but here is my contribution"

OWA Gold Veined

Bottle from '96

UPC 88004

[buoy37]

Subscribed.

Good idea for a thread.

[gblick]

Joe, thanks for the extra info.

WsmataU, were there no printed or etched codes at all on that bottle?

I may have a gold veined bottle or two from '96 in both 750ml and 1 Liter sizes, and I'd like to compare codes (if there are any). I will report back with the info on mine.

Edited December 26, 2013 by gblick

[gblick]

Ok, here are a few Liter bottles, for comparison to WsmataU's 1L '96.

(didn't have a '96 in 750ml as previously thought)

-1L size Gold Veined bottles.

-Louisville, KY.

-Hand-written numbers are: A-11, F-910, and E 926 (hard to read, but it looks to me like an E written like a backwards 3).

-Raised 2-digit number on bottom glass of all three bottles is 96.

-The same code is etched on all three bottles (below the rear label): GH20134? (that last character is just a block).

-UPC code is 88004-02563.

Note the different rear label with only a government warning and no 'story' or stated volume:

The same code (GH20134?) is etched on all 3 bottles with the last character 'blocked' out:

The codes on these GV Louisville bottles don't have the same format as later Frankfort bottles, and I don't know what to make of them. If anyone knows anything about these codes, please do tell. Trying to date these bottles, I can only guess at 1996. I also wonder about the hand-written codes and what they mean.

Edited December 27, 2013 by gblick

[WsmataU]

Yes, mine has the same code on the bottle. The only detail I think you didn't mention was some sort of lettering embossed into the lower rim at the base of the bottle. I can't make it out at all, but on the opposite side (still on the lower rim, not the bottom) is a 15. Hope this helps.

[T Comp]

I have one gold veined 750ml left of 2 I found on a shelf in Chicago 2008. It's in a box in the bunker and will try and extract this weekend to report more precisely. Had a faux tax strip, in a red-purple bag, recall 95 on bottom bottle, an A and handwritten number and frickin delicious. One of the few I am saving to open for some special time :grin:.

[smokinjoe]

...One of the few I am saving to open for some special time :grin:.

Perhaps, a celebratory pour on your last visit to your Tortur...uh...Physical Therapist?

[VintageRacer]

Hey gang-

I am new here-discovered this great forum and hope to learn more about the Bourbons I have coveted and collected! I just bought a 350 bottle of Old Weller..looks like a 1988 vintage, unopened, and it has the red tax stamp across the cap/ It is a Louisville bottled as stated on the label. I saw it and paid just under $150 for it and was going to open and drink but I am wondering about just saving it for now..is it worth more? I have 15YO Pappy and some great stuff to drink so opening it is not required..for now......But reading up here is making me want to try it!

[soonami]

This is what I think is a 1970 bottle of Old Weller. No UPC. No Laser code. Faint 70 stamped on the bottom.

http://imgur.com/a/zRfvs/all

[JVande]

Gus, great thread! I plan to pull out 5 different bottles from the bunker (both 750's and 375's bottled from '98 - '06) within the next few days and get a pic uploaded with the details of each, so please bare with me.

[squire]

Hey VintageRacer, welcome aboard. I would drink it.

[mosugoji64]

Love this geeky stuff!

I have two paper label 750s and two handles. All are Frankfort. The 750s were purchased in CA and the handles in KY.

UPC 750s: 088004025649

UPC handles: 08804025625

The 750s have an 07 bottle stamp. Clockwise after the anchor symbol they read: 42 21 07 BU

The handles have no apparent date stamp. They read 24 SG 84

The laser code on one of the 750s reads (I thought this was pretty cool): 41080808:18. The code on the other one is strangely compressed but appears to be the same.

Both of the handles have a laser code that reads: 84 08 169 1346, but one has an additional laser code that reads: 2175080 (the last digit is partially rubbed off but looks like a "0")

I have another 750 that is open and is identical to these two. I emptied another handle that was purchased with these two a while back, but don't know if it had anything different on it. The whiskey in the handles tastes significantly different from the stuff in the 750s and the current NAS releases. It tastes more like the Louisville Wellers I've had, but I haven't done a SBS to confirm.

[gblick]

Yes, mine has the same code on the bottle. The only detail I think you didn't mention was some sort of lettering embossed into the lower rim at the base of the bottle. I can't make it out at all, but on the opposite side (still on the lower rim, not the bottom) is a 15. Hope this helps.

The three '96 1L's that I posted don't have any emboosed lettering at the lower rim (other than "One Liter"), but they do all have that number on the front of the lower rim: one has a 20, another has a 1, and the other has a 23. I've seen these numbers on the front rim of a lot of bottles (perhaps all of them?), and I didn't mention it because they are all so different and don't seem to have any significance.

I just bought a 350 bottle of Old Weller..looks like a 1988 vintage, unopened, and it has the red tax stamp across the cap/ It is a Louisville bottled as stated on the label. I saw it and paid just under $150 for it and was going to open and drink but I am wondering about just saving it for now..is it worth more?

Hi VintageRacer, and welcome to the forum. I haven't seen a 350, perhaps you meant either a 750ml or a 375ml? The only way I could answer your question is with a 'No' and a 'Yes'. No, because I wouldn't pay that much for one. Yes, because I wouldn't sell any for that much (I bought them to drink, not to sell). Anyway, I think there's a rule against asking about the worth of bottles here on SB, so I'd tread lightly in that area. I'm with Squire and definitely recommend drinking/savoring that bottle, but not too fast, because IMO the taste of this wheated bourbon generally gets better after it's been opened for the first time.

Mike (soonami), That sure is a pretty bottle! I'd like to see pics of the back label and hang tag, if it's not too much trouble.

Brian, thanks for participating. I've seen 2-digit numbers embossed into the glass on the bottoms of handles that I believe can be somewhat reliable indicators of bottling date, but then they all seemed to change to an 84 sometime in the mid 2000's, so I wouldn't rely on dating any handles by the 84 on the bottom unless it was tax-stripped and pre-govt warning from Louisville.

Looking forward to the additions from Thad and Josh.

Edited December 27, 2013 by gblick

[JVande]

From Left to Right:

- Louisville KY - Gold Veined - Glass is etched 98 - no laser code - No_____ field is filled in with handwritten WL137218 - foil around the neck rather than laminated paper - UPC 88076 (the other 4 bottles below have UPC 88004)

- Frankfort KY - Glass is etched 02 - the laser code is on the bottom of the bottle but does not follow the sequence of the Julian code. I can make out an 02, some of the other digits are smeared - There is a NO_____ field on the top left of the label but it is blank - Most refer to the OWA as "paper label", but this bottle and the above 98 are truly paper label. All OWA bottles that I have that are 03 and newer have a laminated coat over the label giving it a smoother finish. This bottle and the 98 above have a rougher feel.

- Frankfort KY - Glass is etched 03 - this bottle does have what appears to be a Julian formatted laser code but it has all rubbed off besides the last 4 digits which indicate the time of day - There is not a NO____ field on this label (I have other 750mls etched 04 and 05 that have the identical types of markings and labels as this 03)

- Frankfort KY - 375 ml - Glass is 03 - Contains non Julian laser code 84 03 43 17 - There is a back label with UPC - No website listed - my guess is that this was bottled in '03

- Frankfort KY - 375 ml - Glass is 03 - Contains a Julian laser code that indicates it was bottled on the 270th day of '06 - There is no back label - Website and UPC are on the front

[smknjoe]

I wonder why your bottle from 98 has a UPC of 88076 but gblick and wsmatau's bottles from 96 have the current 88004?

[doubleblank]

Here's a liter bottle of Antique with the Bourbon Heritage Collection bag. Put together for a Duty Free customer who didn't take it. Sold in Texas and a few other states.

UPC 88004

Bottles are numbered sequentially on upper left (I have several of these bottles).

Bottle mold date 1996.

Gold veined 1 liter bottle.

[JVande]

I wonder why your bottle from 98 has a UPC of 88076 but gblick and wsmatau's bottles from 96 have the current 88004?

Good point Joe. Now you have me wondering...

[gblick]

I wonder why your bottle from 98 has a UPC of 88076 but gblick and wsmatau's bottles from 96 have the current 88004?

Funny you should mention the different UPC code, Joe, as the evolution of the UPC codes is a subject that I intended to get into as more info was added to this thread. Keep in mind that I don't know ANYTHING about UPC codes or when they changed, I'm just making observations and throwing out questions, in hopes that other folks can add any additional info/insight.

One thing to note is that the '96 bottles posted by me and WsmataU (and now Randy) are 1L bottles, and Josh's '98 bottle is a 750ml. Could that be a factor, considering the assumption that Liter bottles (as well as some other non-750's) may not have gotten used up as quickly as the 750's? I don't know, but the next bottles posted by me are 750's from '95, '97, & '98, and they all have the 88076 UPC.

Edited December 28, 2013 by gblick

[brettckeen]

This thread has really full filled my need for bourbon nerdery today. Thank you all! Wow, so much knowledge here!