BOTM 6/14: Jim Beam White

[sutton]

I never noticed the "funk" in OGD or KC. I'm not a fan of the White Label at all but, I do like the Black Label occasionally. I guess the "funk" doesn't bother me like it does some here.

I confess, same here. JBW, JBB, JB Single Barrel, OGDs, Basil, Baker's, Booker's, KC and KCSB - I'm not sure what is referred to as "funk", which I translate into something perhaps musty, dank, perhaps cardboard, wet dog etc ... I've never been able to get this in the JB products. Perhaps I just don't taste it? I do at times get something peanut-like out of the KC's and JBB, and there is a house style/family resemblance that is certainly JB, but I've never really been able to pin point what folks refer to as "funk". Can someone describe it?

[Enoch]

To me the "funk" taste is more sweet, floral, or fruity. I believe it is yeast induced unless Beam uses some funk corn. I can taste it in all Beam products (not MM) but to a much lesser degree the longer the product is in the barrel (KC vs BW). I also have bottles of Beam white from the 80s and 90s and my brother-in-law has a gallon bottle from the early 70s that he will occasionally allow me to taste (really been trying to get him to give/sell it to me). I do not taste it at all in the 70s or 80s and just a hint in the mid-90s bottle. So I figure it is either an ester that breaks down over time (either in barrel or in bottle) or Beams yeast has either mutated, been cross-contaminated, or deliberately changed. As to why some taste it and some do not, it may be like PTC...some just don't have the gene. MTCW

One last edit: Since my wife is in politics, the local distributors often donate alcohol for events. BW is a favorite to donate (followed by EWB and MM) so usually there is some left over to take home which I save for cooking, etc. It seems to be very popular with the college-ish volunteers and staff. They don't seem to mind the "funk" but they usually mix it with coke.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Enoch

[Jackinbox]

TI believe it is yeast induced unless Beam uses some funk corn. I can taste it in all Beam products (not MM) but to a much lesser degree the longer the product is in the barrel (KC vs BW). I also have bottles of Beam white from the 80s and 90s and my brother-in-law has a gallon bottle from the early 70s that he will occasionally allow me to taste (really been trying to get him to give/sell it to me). I do not taste it at all in the 70s or 80s and just a hint in the mid-90s bottle. So I figure it is either an ester that breaks down over time (either in barrel or in bottle) or Beams yeast has either mutated, been cross-contaminated, or deliberately changed.

When you say you taste it in all Beam products, are you including OGD as well? If so, that would certainly eliminate the yeast as the cause.

[Enoch]

When you say you taste it in all Beam products, are you including OGD as well? If so, that would certainly eliminate the yeast as the cause.

To a lesser degree yes. I also have various OGDs from the 70s(ND), 80s(ND), early 90s (probably ND), later 90s (Beam or ND/Beam blend), and current. I don't taste it in any of the earlier OGDs but I do in the current. The reason I suggested cross-contamination is that it could effect all yeast used especially if they use wood cooking vats. I have a friend that has a sour-dough bread business with a proprietary yeast and he worries about cross-contamination. The Beam yeast may have contaminated the OGD yeast. It is just a guess. The Beam "funk" is so distinct to me that I can always pick out a Current Beam product in in a blind taste test. Again...JMHO

[bad_scientist]

To a lesser degree yes. I also have various OGDs from the 70s(ND), 80s(ND), early 90s (probably ND), later 90s (Beam or ND/Beam blend), and current. I don't taste it in any of the earlier OGDs but I do in the current. The reason I suggested cross-contamination is that it could effect all yeast used especially if they use wood cooking vats. I have a friend that has a sour-dough bread business with a proprietary yeast and he worries about cross-contamination. The Beam yeast may have contaminated the OGD yeast. It is just a guess. The Beam "funk" is so distinct to me that I can always pick out a Current Beam product in in a blind taste test. Again...JMHO

Enoch, I've gotten the Beam funk taste in OGD BiB and 114 in bottles from the past few years, too. However, my most recent OGD114 doesn't have it, and my last OGD100 had a much more subtle funkiness than the past several. I, too, have tried these side-by-side, so it's not my faulty imagination. I take from this that it either was contamination, now (mostly) fixed, or perhaps Beam was trying out their regular yeast in OGD for a spell.

[Kalessin]

JBW's real significance in my life is that it's the #1 catering bourbon, and long ago I used to bartend at catered events. While sealed bottles go back to the store, opened bottles go to the customer paying for the event. If they didn't want them (very common at corporate events), the opened bottles went home with the catering employees, and the bartending staff usually got first pick.

I brought home a lot of open bottles of JBW, combined the contents, and stored them in boxes in the basement. If they were keeping anything, the customer would often keep anything they considered special or useful -- Johnny Walker Black Label is a good example, or they'd keep the wine and beer but not liquor, but JBW often got left behind.

Other staff would trade around for the Smirnoff vodka, Cuervo Gold tequila, Tanqueray Gin (which I'd also bring home as I like gin & tonics), but I was usually the only one who wanted the bourbon. I drank free for two years in college, and then again for another couple of years when I went back to catering between "real" jobs.

I'm still working on the opened bottles from my wedding, 4.5 years ago.

Good summertime bourbon, with ice, water, seltzer, coke, etc. I just had some on plenty of rocks while grilling burgers, and the familiar taste cuts through the charcoal grill smoke just like always.

[sutton]

Enoch - thanks. Very interesting. I don't have any "old" (70's, 80's) JB products to compare to, that would probably help me "get it". If it seems to lessen with age, perhaps a JBW is a good one to buy and taste next to another JB product brought down to 80 pf. What would you suggest might be one to compare to?

Kalessin - funny you should mention JBW at catered events - it is ubiquitous! All the JBW I've had has been at wedding receptions, on the rocks. For what it is in that environment, I liked it.

[smokinjoe]

I confess, same here. JBW, JBB, JB Single Barrel, OGDs, Basil, Baker's, Booker's, KC and KCSB - I'm not sure what is referred to as "funk", which I translate into something perhaps musty, dank, perhaps cardboard, wet dog etc ... I've never been able to get this in the JB products. Perhaps I just don't taste it? I do at times get something peanut-like out of the KC's and JBB, and there is a house style/family resemblance that is certainly JB, but I've never really been able to pin point what folks refer to as "funk". Can someone describe it?

Nice take on the situation, Mark. Unfortunately, several years ago here on SB, the Beam house-style that is evident in some of their whiskies got tagged with "funk" to describe it. Unfortunate, because I have always thought of "funk" like you do (musty, dank, wet dog/cardboard). Each of those are significantly negative things I think any of us would not want in our whiskey. I don't think the tell-tale Beam house style fits that description. Your peanut description is apt. In my case, I'm not sure I can describe it accurately, though, I can pick it out of the younger expressions of Beam whiskies. Anywho, I'll admit, some may not like the Beam house-style, but describing it as a "funk" has been unwarranted and misplaced since it became the de rigueur descriptor for it, IMHO.

(Now the Great BT Funk of several years ago is another story! Buffalo Trace bourbons have occasionally gone through a truly "funk" period, particularly on regular BT. Theory is it had something to do with the occasional flooding of the river there affecting the barrels in certain rickhouses.)

[sutton]

Nice take on the situation, Mark. Unfortunately, several years ago here on SB, the Beam house-style that is evident in some of their whiskies got tagged with "funk" to describe it. Unfortunate, because I have always thought of "funk" like you do (musty, dank, wet dog/cardboard). Each of those are significantly negative things I think any of us would not want in our whiskey. I don't think the tell-tale Beam house style fits that description. Your peanut description is apt. In my case, I'm not sure I can describe it accurately, though, I can pick it out of the younger expressions of Beam whiskies. Anywho, I'll admit, some may not like the Beam house-style, but describing it as a "funk" has been unwarranted and misplaced since it became the de rigueur descriptor for it, IMHO.

(Now the Great BT Funk of several years ago is another story! Buffalo Trace bourbons have occasionally gone through a truly "funk" period, particularly on regular BT. Theory is it had something to do with the occasional flooding of the river there affecting the barrels in certain rickhouses.)

Well, good to know, Joe, thanks! I never knew that is what folks were referring to! You are correct that every time I read "funk", I read it as a negative. JB's style is distinctive, and when the mood strikes I like it. I kept looking for these off-notes but even with power of suggestion I couldn't find them.

Funny you mention that about BT - I've had some BT products that I would have classified as "funky" - a bottle ER10 single barrel in particular that had a dank, musty character on the nose and finish.

I have some JB single barrel, Booker's, and JBB lying about - I think I'll go get a 200ml of JBW and compare them all at 80 pf - gives me something to do after the kids go to bed ... ... a Father's Day experiment!

[kcgumbohead]

Interesting replies. Based on my palate I was under the impression that the "funk" was a politically correct term for what I taste in JBW. Let me be clear I appreciate that it is a consistent well crafted bourbon and it tastes how the distillery intends. That said in a JBW/EWB/JD SBS both JD and EWB always have been and continue to be pleasant neat pours.

JBW has always had something off-putting to my taste that I avoided but never took the time to put under the microscope until the last few years. When I really decided to taste the JBW to get a handle on my aversion to it my consistent reaction has been " holy crap WTF is wrong with this and WTF is that horrible flavor that has riveted itself to my tongue!!!!"

I never have to search for it, its not subtle, its not floral or nutty, I don't have an adjective for it because I've never encountered that flavor elsewhere and am thankful for it. For those of you that don't "get it" thats a good thing, be grateful stop searching for it and simply enjoy the bourbon.

As others have posted I too taste this in other Beam expressions but to a lesser degree the more time its had in the barrel. JBW is by far the worst offender. FWIW I ain't too fond of Makers 46 either as there is something going on in it that I find to be a very objectionable flavor profile so I avoid it but am happy for those that enjoy it. That one I believe is a strong oak signature as it seems like that was their goal.

We can't all like everything and that's AOK, Hell I wish it didn't taste like it does to me but it is what it is, its how I'm built and any others that get this reaction from it will know instantly. The rest, enjoy your JBW I am sorry I can't join the party on that one but there are plenty of bourbons in the world with a wide spectrum of flavors for us all to enjoy. Some people cant stand the taste of broccoli, this is like the bourbon version of that.

In closing this isn't a slam on Beam. I respect them and their products and again to its fans I salute you. I am going to go have some WTRB. Peace.

[Enoch]

Enoch, I've gotten the Beam funk taste in OGD BiB and 114 in bottles from the past few years, too. However, my most recent OGD114 doesn't have it, and my last OGD100 had a much more subtle funkiness than the past several. I, too, have tried these side-by-side, so it's not my faulty imagination. I take from this that it either was contamination, now (mostly) fixed, or perhaps Beam was trying out their regular yeast in OGD for a spell.

You have inspired me. My bottle of current OGD 114 is about 3 years old. Since I have a good source of ND OGD (all three versions) from early 80s, I have not bought another bottle because of the taste. But I am going to go out today and get a new bottle.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Enoch

[Enoch]

One reason I think it is something that has either changed at Beam or something that changes over time is I can even detect the difference in 80s and current bottles of JB Rye. I wish I had the chemistry background to see what is in the bourbon that may not be in other bourbons.

[Enoch]

Just another thought: The 80s JB didn't seem to have "the taste" and it is not as noticeable in the older current stuff (KC). Maybe because of the glut we were actually getting older Beam in the 80s...early 90s which is one factor in not detecting "the taste".

Trying not to use the word funk...

[kcgumbohead]

I too am very interested in this. Before joining SB I combed through threads looking for info on JBW in order to learn if/what was so different. My interest continues from an academic standpoint. It is fascinating how many wildly different flavors exist out there in bourbon and all the variables involved in producing those flavors.

One reason I think it is something that has either changed at Beam or something that changes over time is I can even detect the difference in 80s and current bottles of JB Rye. I wish I had the chemistry background to see what is in the bourbon that may not be in other bourbons.

[tarheel]

Picked up a small bottle to try out. I've been following the great advice on the site over the past couple of years and I've probably tried >50 bourbons/ryes before finally coming back to the world's top selling bourbon.

At the bottom shelf, my hopes are that: 1) there's no alcohol kick and 2) I get some level of flavor enjoyment. I was very pleasantly surprised by JBW. The nose was pretty weak and nondescript, and I did get the alcohol if I tried to get too much out of it. On the palate, I got a standard bourbon profile of oak, maple sugar, some vanilla, once again with nothing really standing out but nothing offensive either. The mouthfeel wasn't bad at all, which I enjoyed. Finish was fairly short.

Overall, while I wouldn't buy this myself, if I was on the road and found myself with JBW as my only choice, I'd happily drink this neat. There are just many other products (particularly HH) at this price range that give something a little more interesting for my money.

I was actually thinking this would be good to have on hand for a tasting session as a benchmark. A very non-offensive, mild, full-spectrum bourbon for recalibrating taste. It would allow you to identify interesting components of other products more easily.....don't know if people do this with bourbon but I know this is often done with wine tasting.

[dmarkle]

Ugh. This BOTM is a testament to my loyalty to the group. Now I have a headache.

As to taste -- no finish, lightly sweet, corny and young(ish) on the nose, but not overly grainy. Light taste due to its low proof. Better than just about any 2-3 year old "craft" stuff I have had. Glad I only bought an airplane bottle of it!

[ethangsmith]

I'm with Sutton. I don't get the Beam funk thing. What I do get is a nutty, cinnamon flavor that I enjoy. Could it be this nutty flavor? Could this come from a different char level in the barrel? I've tasted this nutty flavor in other whiskies too- I find a hint in 1792 and even sometimes in Wild Turkey 101 bourbon. Or could it be a product of filtering or leftovers from something in distillation?

[squire]

As near as I can tell Beam makes very clean whisky so I guess I'll just have to keep up the drinking research to see if anything in the way of funk shows up.

[393foureyedfox]

As near as I can tell Beam makes very clean whisky so I guess I'll just have to keep up the drinking research to see if anything in the way of funk shows up.

way to self-sacrifice for the sake of the team, squire....

I gotta say, as much as I tout Booker's, KC, and KCSB, I do NOT enjoy sub 100 proof Beam stuff. I cant say I call it a 'funk', but there is just something in the profile that I dont care for, and I cant put my finger on it. Maybe the above poster is onto something with Beam products and aging removing that taste, as I dont find a bit of that profile in 7.5 year Booker's or 9 year KC. I also dont get any of it in OGD, but Ive never had the 80 0r 86 proof OGD's, just the 100 and 114 in the current varieties.

Maybe its just the house style. Its obviously something intended, as it doesnt vary to any noticable degree over the past few years that Ive been into bourbons. If I used 'funk' to describe any whiskey, itd be JD....that stuff is just odd to me.

[squire]

Of course Old Grand Dad uses a different yeast formula (as does Basil Hayden) than the regular Beam products.

[2highcal]

I just say no to JBW and 80 proofers in general

[Gillman]

Of course Old Grand Dad uses a different yeast formula (as does Basil Hayden) than the regular Beam products.

I know but they still have a close "family" resemblance in flavor.

Gary

[Enoch]

Don't get me wrong. I always have all four of the Small Batch Collection bottles open and always keep a BIG bottle of JBW on hand. ; )

PS: I collect inflatable bottles. This one I mount on the top of the car when going to Jimmy Buffet concerts.

[bad_scientist]

Just another thought: The 80s JB didn't seem to have "the taste" and it is not as noticeable in the older current stuff (KC). Maybe because of the glut we were actually getting older Beam in the 80s...early 90s which is one factor in not detecting "the taste".

Trying not to use the word funk...

What notes do you get from '80s JB? I just have one late '80s JBB (or black label, as it wasn't officially called "Jim Beam Black" yet) and, like you said, it's nothing like current stuff. I get a profoundly grassy note from it, not only different from current Beam but unlike most any whiskey I've had.

[boneuphtoner]

Friend brought a handle over to a party at our house last weekend, and I decided to stick it in the freezer. Neat, out of the freezer, it is much better than at room temperature or on the rocks. I'm fairly impressed.