About All Things Pappy/VanWinkle

[Charlutz]

17 hours ago, Butch_Coolidge said:

Great series, and they drink nothing but whiskey. Someone bought a bottle of Pappy for the Deputy Marshal as a birthday present, and referred to it as a $200.00 bottle of whiskey...lol. Rayland Givens who is the lead character was a Jim Beam man. And everyone made and drank Shine.


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I am a fan as my avatar shows... Whiskey is very prominent in the show and the whiskeys are specifically matched to their characters. There is a NY Times or Washington Post article that covers the whiskey/character picks.  I will make one correction to your post: Raylan doesn’t care what he drinks. If you listen carefully, he doesn’t even know the name of the whiskey and says ‘Jim Bean’ and ‘Piper Van Winkle’ in certain scenes. 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Like the avatar, and will acquiesce that you have a greater knowledge than I do. I’ve noticed him drink it a couple times, along with anything else that was offered, including apple pie.I don’t have the skills at this point to identify most of the bottles I’ve seen. Just spotted a bottle of Old Forester in an episode I’m watching from season 6 right now. I saw most of the series previously, including the ending. I started watching the series again from the beginning, and am really enjoying it. Appreciate the correction on my post, and will have to google the article you mentioned. Enjoy your pours, and have a happy new year.


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[Butch_Coolidge]

I never watched it when it was live but I did get the DVD set a couple of years ago. It was this show that got me started on the bourbon journey that I’m currently on. I was thoroughly intrigued  with PVW and all the other high end bourbons on the series. I jumped in and I’m loving it but I’ve yet to snag a Pappy. [emoji6]

It’s having the same effect on me currently. I saw most of it first run, and am binge watching again through Amazon. The characters are awesome, and guest actors great.


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[Clueby]

I might have to 

23 hours ago, Butch_Coolidge said:

It’s having the same effect on me currently. I saw most of it first run, and am binge watching again through Amazon. The characters are awesome, and guest actors great.


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I might have to look this one up on Amazon. I have still never, ever heard of this show outside of the pages of SB though.

[Butch_Coolidge]

I might have to 
I might have to look this one up on Amazon. I have still never, ever heard of this show outside of the pages of SB though.

Just finished the series, and actually got my wife hooked towards the end. You won’t be able to stop watching. Enjoy [emoji6].


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[Harry in WashDC]

Bump (can't remember where PVW "history" goes).  Chuck Cowdery's most recent (last night) blog post comments on the historical relationship between Old Fitz and Makers and PVW and Larceny, particularly regarding Old Fitz being just like . . .

 

This piece of history deserves to be preserved in multiple places, IM (not so, obviously) HO.

 

BTW, my browser popped up an expired certificate warning for this link.  I suggest you go see Chuck manually.

 

 

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2019/09/that-old-story-about-pappy-makers-mark.html

[flahute]

1 hour ago, Harry in WashDC said:

Bump (can't remember where PVW "history" goes).  Chuck Cowdery's most recent (last night) blog post comments on the historical relationship between Old Fitz and Makers and PVW and Larceny, particularly regarding Old Fitz being just like . . .

 

This piece of history deserves to be preserved in multiple places, IM (not so, obviously) HO.

 

BTW, my browser popped up an expired certificate warning for this link.  I suggest you go see Chuck manually.

 

 

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2019/09/that-old-story-about-pappy-makers-mark.html

Thanks for this.

I know I've read numerous times that PVW production shifted to BT in 2003. For whatever reason though, reading this today prompted me to do some math which made me realize for the first time that the very first bottle of PVW15 I got my hands on in 2013 would have been Old Fitzgerald distillate from Bernheim. That explains some things.

[Richnimrod]

1 hour ago, flahute said:

For whatever reason though, reading this today prompted me to do some math which made me realize for the first time that the very first bottle of PVW15 I got my hands on in 2013 would have been Old Fitzgerald distillate from Bernheim. That explains some things.

AND, maybe the BT distillate has been 'blended into' some of the original SW distillate (& Vice-Versa) so some of the stuff now being sold as 15, 20, 23 and maybe even Lot B still has a little SW juice in it....?   

Anybody know this?   I'm just speculating here; but, it makes some sense... to me anyway.

[The Black Tot]

Read this too.

 

I remember when I found out that Pappy advised Bill Samuels and gave him the OF yeast, and I was really excited about trying Maker's Mark...

 

...but it doesn't taste at all to me like the wheaters I've had from SW (23yr Pappy from before '92), Bernheim (Weller Antique from early 2000s before the BT distillate was 7yrs old), or BT.

 

Womp womp.

 

I enjoy MMCS on it's own merits, but SW, Bernheim, or BT juice it ain't. For me.

[BottledInBond]

On 9/27/2019 at 2:33 PM, Richnimrod said:

AND, maybe the BT distillate has been 'blended into' some of the original SW distillate (& Vice-Versa) so some of the stuff now being sold as 15, 20, 23 and maybe even Lot B still has a little SW juice in it....?   

Anybody know this?   I'm just speculating here; but, it makes some sense... to me anyway.

I truly doubt there is any SW in any PVW currently being released. 
 

There were comments from Preston WV back in 2012 that indicated that only the 20/23 were SW at that point. Which would make sense since that was 20 years past the 1992 closure of SW. Then in 2013 Preston said the 23 “could be the last Year”, which would assume to mean the last year it was all SW. A couple of sources that reported those comments below, but back in older threads this stuff was discussed here back then as well. 
 

The last several times I’ve tasted PVW releases from the last few years, they don’t taste like SW to me at all. Are they blending in what would be at least 27 year old SW juice even a little right now? I would think that if they had 27 year SW juice they would be doing something else with it and charging an astronomical amount rather than quietly blending it into regular VW products. I mean, look at what HH did with a couple barrels of SW juice they had a few years ago. They sold 375s in fancy boxes for $500 each I believe, and that wasn’t 27 year juice, nor did it carry the VW name. Just sayin’ if it don’t make dollars it don’t make sense for a business like this.

 

 

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2012/04/preston-van-winkle-everything-in-pappy.html?m=1

 

https://whiskycast.com/2013-pappy-van-winkles-family-reserve-last-of-its-kind/

[Richnimrod]

59 minutes ago, BottledInBond said:

I truly doubt there is any SW in any PVW currently being released. 
 

There were comments from Preston WV back in 2012 that indicated that only the 20/23 were SW at that point. Which would make sense since that was 20 years past the 1992 closure of SW. Then in 2013 Preston said the 23 “could be the last Year”, which would assume to mean the last year it was all SW. A couple of sources that reported those comments below, but back in older threads this stuff was discussed here back then as well. 
 

The last several times I’ve tasted PVW releases from the last few years, they don’t taste like SW to me at all. Are they blending in what would be at least 27 year old SW juice even a little right now? I would think that if they had 27 year SW juice they would be doing something else with it and charging an astronomical amount rather than quietly blending it into regular VW products. I mean, look at what HH did with a couple barrels of SW juice they had a few years ago. They sold 375s in fancy boxes for $500 each I believe, and that wasn’t 27 year juice, nor did it carry the VW name. Just sayin’ if it don’t make dollars it don’t make sense for a business like this.

 

 

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2012/04/preston-van-winkle-everything-in-pappy.html?m=1

 

https://whiskycast.com/2013-pappy-van-winkles-family-reserve-last-of-its-kind/

You're probably right about no SW in the current crop of PVW. 

I highlighted a portion of your post, BIB and will mention that in all likelihood, if any SW had been available to 'blend into the BT distillate' they could've tanked it at whatever appropriate barrel age they felt would work best and thus not allow any further barrel-aging.   They may not have done that with ANY SW distillate; but, I do not know whether or not they did.       If I was managing the brands, I'd have done this with at least some of the SW distillate in order to modify and slowly allow the profile to evolve without immediately changing the character of the brands.   Maybe the BT-produced distillate's profile was felt to be close enough, and that the careful selection of barrels would allow the products to retain their profiles near enough for the wildly acquisitive market to continue unabated; so saving and blending in any of the old SW didn't seem necessary.   Either scenario could be possible.

[BottledInBond]

5 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

You're probably right about no SW in the current crop of PVW. 

I highlighted a portion of your post, BIB and will mention that in all likelihood, if any SW had been available to 'blend into the BT distillate' they could've tanked it at whatever appropriate barrel age they felt would work best and thus not allow any further barrel-aging.   They may not have done that with ANY SW distillate; but, I do not know whether or not they did.       If I was managing the brands, I'd have done this with at least some of the SW distillate in order to modify and slowly allow the profile to evolve without immediately changing the character of the brands.   Maybe the BT-produced distillate's profile was felt to be close enough, and that the careful selection of barrels would allow the products to retain their profiles near enough for the wildly acquisitive market to continue unabated; so saving and blending in any of the old SW didn't seem necessary.   Either scenario could be possible.

BT certainly did tank Saz 18 and VWFRR, so it’s possible. But the extreme ages seem to command extreme prices so I just always assume companies will go for Max profit most of the time

[Saul_cooperstein]

As a data point I think that they had some SW that they didn’t tank with the 25yr release a couple years ago (with a retail price of 5x the PVW23)

[Richnimrod]

7 hours ago, Saul_cooperstein said:

As a data point I think that they had some SW that they didn’t tank with the 25yr release a couple years ago (with a retail price of 5x the PVW23)

Yup!   ...And, may yet have more.   ...Either tanked at __-years old, or even still in barrels at __ years old (and getting older every day), or bottled at __-years old and stored!

[FacePlant]

I did a search but sometimes that doesn't work exactly perfect. Just didn't want to post something already available. Here's a 2017 YouTube apparently filmed in England with Preston. It's very lengthy but if you've got an extra 2hrs I found it packed with MANY facts I never knew. For example I never knew a reject barrel of wheat bourbon could end up in a rye bourbon bottle? I could go on but if you haven't seen it there could be new information here for even the most knowledgeable bourbon aficionado. Plus many subjects I've seen on these pages are covered by someone in the know.

Pappy Van Winkle Talk by Preston Van Winkle 

[lcpfratn]

I watched some of this a few years ago, but didn’t have the patience at the time to watch it all without fast forwarding a good bit.

[FacePlant]

Some new info for me on that video. Either Preston or Julian taste every single barrel and often they both will taste it. They rarely taste it before preparing to batch each years line. It's only available in the US, England, and Canada. Apparently Preston is not happy at all that some of that valuable stock goes to Canada. And I loved the story about Preston asking a bartender make a cocktail from ORVW and the bartender said "Pappy would roll over in this grave" and refused. Preston asked for the same mixture his granddad loved, and was his chosen way of enjoying his pours.  New info but not a surprise-they get special warehouse space on only the first and second floors in the center. Not mentioned that I remember if they use multiple warehouses? Much more in that video also. Yes, you've got to carve out time so you can take it all in.

[The Black Tot]

19 hours ago, FacePlant said:

 Apparently Preston is not happy at all that some of that valuable stock goes to Canada. 

...pretty rich coming from a family that sells barrel-aged maple syrup.

[Old Dusty]

8 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

...pretty rich coming from a family that sells barrel-aged maple syrup.

Hey now, cheap shot! You know all of the Pappy syrup is domestic from trees on Whistlepig Farm. 

[The Black Tot]

37 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

Hey now, cheap shot! You know all of the Pappy syrup is domestic from trees on Whistlepig Farm. 

I did not know that.

Edited January 27, 2020 by The Black Tot

[Old Dusty]

Sorry my sarcasm font was not working. I was being (allegedly) humorous. 

[The Black Tot]

12 minutes ago, Old Dusty said:

Sorry my sarcasm font was not working. I was being (allegedly) humorous. 

Ah!

 

That's even better! That means my ironic observation might be valid after all

 

The trouble is, these days, the Whistlepig farm-to-table thing wouldn't have been surprising! 

[Richnimrod]

Hmmmm.    Barrel-aged maple syrup?    I get why barrel aging whiskey, and likely many other spirits, is worth doing and charging more for... up to a point.    But, wouldn't FRESH maple syrup be superior?    My experience being rather limited, I ask this question without humor or guile.   

I WILL say, that I bought a 'family sized jug' of maple syrup once, and the last several ounces were less-than-stellar . . . crystallized a bit.

[Old Dusty]

I have a non-Pappy version and it’s delicious. The barrel aging adds a depth of flavor. I actually use it instead of simple syrup in my Old Fashioneds.   

[flahute]

24 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

Hmmmm.    Barrel-aged maple syrup?    I get why barrel aging whiskey, and likely many other spirits, is worth doing and charging more for... up to a point.    But, wouldn't FRESH maple syrup be superior?    My experience being rather limited, I ask this question without humor or guile.   

I WILL say, that I bought a 'family sized jug' of maple syrup once, and the last several ounces were less-than-stellar . . . crystallized a bit.

Barrel aged maple syrup can actually be quite nice.