starhopper Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have one bottle of Elmer T. Lee (ETL) that fell within the number range (B15258 to B15266) reported to have possible cork taint problems. Sure enough, upon opening and tasting it, there's an awful musty, almost "top soil" kind of aftertaste. My other 3 ETLs seem ok. I googled "cork taint" and learned about the "TCA" compound (2,4,6-trichloroanisole) which evidently causes this awful musty/earthy flavor in bottles of wine, and now it seems, ETL. If you lookup "TCA" in Wikipedia, about halfway down the page, under the "Treatment" sub-heading, there is an easy treatment that can be done at home....evidently, the TCA compound attaches itself to polyethylene (Saran Wrap!). So, all I did was take a glass bowl, line it with Saran Cling Wrap, and poured the entire contaminated bottle of ETL into it and let it sit for 10 minutes, allowing the TCA compound to attach itself to the polyethylene wrap. Using a funnel, I then carefully poured the ETL back into the bottle and tasted it again. WOW! It seems that that musty, dirt-like aftertaste is almost nonexistent now. (I still taste just a little, but nowhere near what it was before the treatment. Perhaps I'll give it a second treatment). I even wrapped some of the plastic around the cork in the hope to remove any TCA from the cork itself. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxn slim Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Wow. Thanks for sharing that. I have a B15266 bottle that I have yet to open. This sounds like a better option than to send it back to BT for a refund. Please let us know what you think about the 2nd treatment, if you decide to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhopper Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I just did the second treatment but did it a little differently. To increase the TCA to polyethylene transfer, instead of lining the glass bowl with saran wrap, I simply bunched up a lot of saran wrap and put it into the bowl and then poured the ETL into the bowl. The increased area of saran wrap that the TCA could attach to. I left it there for ten minutes and then poured it back into the bottle. I don't taste ANY of the earthy/musty smell anymore. Be careful though, when you bunch up the plastic wrap, the bourbon gets caught in little pockets within the ball of wrap - you kind of have to squeeze it out of there to get all your bourbon back out of the bowl. Here's a link to the Wiki article.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_taint and here's a link to the New York Times wine article referred to in that Wikipedia TCA article, the bit about the TCA attaching to Polyethylene is about 2/3 way down the page - it's easy to miss! http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/dining/14curi.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Enjoy Edited February 15, 2016 by starhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Thanks for the tip star. I haven't come across this, but do have a few Elmers that were purchased in the past year that I'll need to check. How recently did you purchase yours? I must have missed the announcement about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhopper Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, flahute said: Thanks for the tip star. I haven't come across this, but do have a few Elmers that were purchased in the past year that I'll need to check. How recently did you purchase yours? I must have missed the announcement about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/bourbon/comments/45ho6t/elmer_t_lee_cork_taint/ ...just ignore the immature, locker-room humor in the thread, there's good info in there. Edited February 15, 2016 by starhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm going to try this with a few dusties I have at home. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Vino Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Thanks, I lost an expensive bottle to the drain because of cork taint. I had no idea there was a way to get rid of it. I hope to never again have the need, but if I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'll be damned. Great contribution, Starhopper! IIRC I've held on to a cork tainted rum. I'll have to remember this next time I get near that bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisiana Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Of course I had to look in the bunker. All mine start with B14. Great thread though. Very Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Interesting thing with the plastic wrap. I can't contest that it doesn't work, and I certainly am no chemist, but the idea of TCA molecules jumping over and attaching to PE film because PE molecules are similar sounds a little hinkey to me. One of the things I've noticed over the years from distilleries, is that them admitting to "corked" is code for, "Yeah, you don't like it...send it back. We'll refund your money." Replaces; "Reason for Return and Credit? F.) None of the above.", on their internal paperwork. Regardless, solid customer service and relations to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhopper Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, smokinjoe said: I can't contest that it doesn't work, and I certainly am no chemist, but the idea of TCA molecules jumping over and attaching to PE film because PE molecules are similar sounds a little hinkey to me. smokinjoe - I'm a rationalist and I thought the same thing - I don't believe in UFOs, Bigfoot, or the second shooter behind the grassy knoll - but I thought "what the hell, I'll give it a shot". Sure enough, after doing it twice, it seems to have removed the awful earthy taste. Go figure! Edited February 15, 2016 by starhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.B. Babington Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 for geeks, others can skip this. Here's how it might work, I've never tried it. TCA is more of a non-polar molecule, not that water miscible (10mg/L), but can be present in trace amounts in solution and greater amounts in whiskey. Water wants to exclude it but likes all it's polar buddies, like alcohol and most of the flavors in whiskey. Saran Wrap is an extremely non-polar polymer, essentially just linear long chain CH2 groups with some branching. These can attract other molecules by one of the Van Der Waals forces called London Dispersion Force. It is a very weak force, but if you have a lot of Saran Wrap compared to what you're putting in it, a lot of surface area can make up for the weak force. Now here's the kicker, Saran Wrap would be non-selective and would attract other whiskey constituents, BUT since these are attracted to water by various stronger forces (hydrogen bonding, Keesom dipole-dipole force, etc), they don't stick to the Saran Wrap. So, since Saran Wrap can attract TCA and water wants to be rid of TCA, voila. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hop, when you removed the Saran from the bowl, did it stink? Even after drying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohrmund Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 That is great info. I have a bottle that I opened and it tasted like dirt or earthy. I came on this site and a thread was going about the different taste in ETL this past release. Basically it said people couldn't tell from batch to batch. ETL is my favorite pour and I did not like the new taste. I didn't dump it out, I figured I would choke it down. Thanks for the fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhopper Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 1 hour ago, smokinjoe said: Hop, when you removed the Saran from the bowl, did it stink? Even after drying? smokinjoe - yes it did stink. I didn't even think about that until just now! I did not let it dry though, just threw it in the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Hahaa, and I say this lovingly - only on SB.com can an excellent BB Babington chemistry breakdown be squinted at in favor of, "yeah, but did it stink?" That cracked me up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadeweber Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, The Black Tot said: Hahaa, and I say this lovingly - only on SB.com can an excellent BB Babington chemistry breakdown be squinted at in favor of, "yeah, but did it stink?" That cracked me up. Me too now that you pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRich Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 28 minutes ago, The Black Tot said: Hahaa, and I say this lovingly - only on SB.com can an excellent BB Babington chemistry breakdown be squinted at in favor of, "yeah, but did it stink?" That cracked me up. I needed a laugh today. Thanks fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The bigger picture: TCA taint of wines is a big deal, both in terms of percentage of wines damaged and economic loss to some wineries. One winery abandoned a building because of TCA surface contamination. Contamination of wines can come directly from corks that have TCA, and also from contaminated bottling and storage surfaces. If some ET Lee bottles are contaminated, Buffalo Trace should be all over preventing it from affecting any other products. http://www.sfgate.com/wine/article/Hanzell-comes-clean-When-an-historical-Sonoma-2553255.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Well, if I had known you rubes were so easily entertained I'd have used stank... Show of hands: Who had to Google "miscible"...? Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp_stargazer Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, smokinjoe said: Well, if I had known you rubes were so easily entertained I'd have used stank... Show of hands: Who had to Google "miscible"...? Me. "Miscible" is not to be confused with "missable." I find bourbon can be both. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Vino Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 So SB Blend is miscible but not missable... I think I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 1 hour ago, smokinjoe said: Well, if I had known you rubes were so easily entertained I'd have used stank... Show of hands: Who had to Google "miscible"...? Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I'm lost in all this but thoroughly entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, smokinjoe said: Well, if I had known you rubes were so easily entertained I'd have used stank... Show of hands: Who had to Google "miscible"...? Me. Aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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