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[hawkeye62]

Hi all,

 

New member from Utah here. I have been sampling rye for about three years. And I have done quite a bit of research about rye. I currently classify rye into three categories,  One is MGP rye. Way too much rye on the market is from MGP Distillery. Another is Kentucky rye. Unfortunately, most of the rye coming from Kentucky has a pretty low rye content. Third is 100 percent rye. Very hard to find. The only I have found is Old Potrero Straight Rye, 100 % malted rye, which I find to be excellent  Another is Woodinville Micro Barreled Rye. This rye is 20 % malted rye and 80 % un-malted rye. It is aged in eight gallon mini barrels. I find this rye to very good, but it could use more time in the barrel.

 

Anyway, I think rye should be 100 % rye with at least 20 % malted to please my taste. For me, the MGP stuff is all very similar. And to me, the Kentucky rye seems to be just a dry bourbon.

 

Please be gentle, I am new to this forum and these are just my opinions.

 

Best regards, Jim      

[IncredulousNosco]

Hey hawkeye52. Not sure if I've been here long enough to roll out a welcome mat for you, but welcome anyway. 

 

I'd certainly not say that there is "too much" MGP rye. There is a lot out there, but I don't see how it can be too much unless you don't know what you're getting. Anyway, there are some not so great versions like Templeton, but there has been some really spectacular versions as well, Old Scout SA come to mind immediately.  And I'm on board with you about not being too excited about Kentucky rye. 

 

There are actually a LOT of small distillers getting into 100% rye or at least very low or no corn rye, but many of them are regional and don't have national distribution yet. But all these are young anyway. 

 

For your preferences as described, I'd suggest either Lot 40 (it's back and cheaper!) or perhaps one of the Alberta re-sellers, like WP, Masterson's or LS&B, assuming you can't get up to Canada to pick up Alberta Premium. Also, if you don't mind them young and thin, Canadian Club 100% Rye fits your needs as well. 

 

Another thing that comes to mind is actually a very nice blended rye: Hochstadter's Vatted Straight Rye Whiskey. If you can find it, it has a very similar flavor profile to many 100% ryes. 

[PaulO]

I think some bottlings of the MGP rye are quite nice.  I also realize it's not for everyone.  

I agree that KY rye can be very similar to higher rye content bourbon.  I don't know which ones you have tried.  I don't care for the Beam rye profile.  I like the others.  Have you tried: Rittenhouse, Pikesville, Sazerac, Wild Turkey 101 Rye?

Edited November 8, 2016 by PaulO

[hawkeye62]

10 minutes ago, PaulO said:

I think some bottlings of the MGP rye are quite nice.  I also realize it's not for everyone.  

I agree that KY rye can be very similar to higher rye content bourbon.  I don't know which ones you have tried.  I don't care for any of the Beam ryes I've tried.  I like the others.  Have you tried: Rittenhouse, Pikesville, Sazerac, Wild Turkey 101 Rye?

 

Well, I will try to list the rye whiskey I have sampled in no particular order. Pendleton 1910, Templeton, Knob Creek, Jefferson's. Old Overholt, (ri)1, James E Pepper, John Jacob, Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse 100, Willett Single Barrel, Woodinville, Jim Beam yellow label, Jim Beam green label, Old Potrero Straight, Old Potrero 18 Century, Wild Turkey 101, Russells Reserve, Redemption, River Boat, Michter's, Sazerac 6 yr, Bulleit, Pappy Van Winkle 12 yr Family Reserve, Whistle Pig,  High West Double Rye, High West OMG and probably a few more. The only ones that I really like are both Old Potreros the Woodinville, High West Double and Pappy 12 yr. The High West and Pappy are closer to bourbon than high rye content whiskey. 

 

Regards, Jim      

[tanstaafl2]

10 hours ago, hawkeye62 said:

The High West and Pappy are closer to bourbon than high rye content whiskey. 

 

Regards, Jim      

 

Interesting comment on the HW Double Rye. Everyone's perception is different. It is not very bourbon like to me (unless you get one that has had some extra aging in bourbon casks. There have a few like that). It is a blend of 2yo MGP rye and 16 yo 53% Barton rye and while the ratio is not advertised and is not known to me I have to think the 16yo is not the dominant component of the two. That would make this a pretty high rye content whiskey in spite of he Barton component. Probably at least 75% or so if not more.

[hawkeye62]

4 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Interesting comment on the HW Double Rye. Everyone's perception is different. It is not very bourbon like to me (unless you get one that has had some extra aging in bourbon casks. There have a few like that). It is a blend of 2yo MGP rye and 16 yo 53% Barton rye and while the ratio is not advertised and is not known to me I have to think the 16yo is not the dominant component of the two. That would make this a pretty high rye content whiskey in spite of he Barton component. Probably at least 75% or so if not more.

 

I guess what I want and like in rye is 100 % rye with at least 20 % malted rye. For my taste, that gives a rye that is completely different from bourbon. Not that I don't like bourbon, but I don't want a rye that is just a variant of bourbon.

 

Regards, Jim

[IncredulousNosco]

10 hours ago, hawkeye62 said:

 

Well, I will try to list the rye whiskey I have sampled in no particular order. Pendleton 1910, Templeton, Knob Creek, Jefferson's. Old Overholt, (ri)1, James E Pepper, John Jacob, Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse 100, Willett Single Barrel, Woodinville, Jim Beam yellow label, Jim Beam green label, Old Potrero Straight, Old Potrero 18 Century, Wild Turkey 101, Russells Reserve, Redemption, River Boat, Michter's, Sazerac 6 yr, Bulleit, Pappy Van Winkle 12 yr Family Reserve, Whistle Pig,  High West Double Rye, High West OMG and probably a few more. The only ones that I really like are both Old Potreros the Woodinville, High West Double and Pappy 12 yr. The High West and Pappy are closer to bourbon than high rye content whiskey. 

 

Regards, Jim      

 

That's a good list. I find the first two on the list absolutely horrific. Most of the rest are good to great.  And I'm very jealous of your sampling of Old Potrero. I've long been curious about them, but I can't justify the price for the age having never tried it. And I can't find it in a bar around here. 

 

But yeah, I'll renew my suggesting for you to seek out Lot 40 as a high priority, since it appears you haven't had it. 

 

1 minute ago, hawkeye62 said:

 

I guess what I want and like in rye is 100 % rye with at least 20 % malted rye. For my taste, that gives a rye that is completely different from bourbon. Not that I don't like bourbon, but I don't want a rye that is just a variant of bourbon.

 

 

You and me both. Although I'm not getting hung up on the % of malt. I just want little or no corn. 

[tanstaafl2]

17 minutes ago, hawkeye62 said:

 

I guess what I want and like in rye is 100 % rye with at least 20 % malted rye. For my taste, that gives a rye that is completely different from bourbon. Not that I don't like bourbon, but I don't want a rye that is just a variant of bourbon.

 

Regards, Jim

 

That would certainly explain the Old Potrero which is of course 100% malted rye! But it is a very different animal indeed and the 18th century is a little different even from the Potrero straight rye since it uses both new and used barrels that are toasted rather than charred. The straight is pretty good although pricey but the 18th Century is a bit of an acquired taste!

 

Oppidan out of Illinois was making a rye malt whiskey but the one I tried was still quite young (a year or less) and vary sharp in flavor. Probably came out of smaller barrels. Not the best of combinations. Probably hasn't found its way out to Utah yet.

 

I am sure there must be a few others!

 

Old World Spirits out of California made an interesting rye but I don't know the malt content if any. Also very young (they even describe it as being like an eau de vie) it tastes very rye bread forward and perhaps a bit softer, a little less tannic and grainy like some "craft" spirits. Still it is pretty grainy!

[hawkeye62]

2 hours ago, IncredulousNosco said:

 

But yeah, I'll renew my suggesting for you to seek out Lot 40 as a high priority, since it appears you haven't had it. 

 

 

Isn't Lot 40 just another 95/5 rye from MGP? What makes it so good? It is very unlikely that I will find it in Utah or surrounding states.  

 

Regards, Jim

[hawkeye62]

1 hour ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

That would certainly explain the Old Potrero which is of course 100% malted rye! But it is a very different animal indeed and the 18th century is a little different even from the Potrero straight rye since it uses both new and used barrels that are toasted rather than charred. The straight is pretty good although pricey but the 18th Century is a bit of an acquired taste!

 

I think the difference between the Straight and 18th Century illustrates just how much the wood effects the taste of whiskey. The Straight is much more robust than the 18th Century. I would like to see both in a ten year version.

 

Regards, Jim

 

[meadeweber]

1 hour ago, hawkeye62 said:

 

Isn't Lot 40 just another 95/5 rye from MGP? What makes it so good? It is very unlikely that I will find it in Utah or surrounding states.  

 

Regards, Jim

No.  Lot 40 is a Canadian whiskey distilled at the Hiram Walker plant in Windsor, ON.  I've never looked into the amount of malted rye before but one source says 10%.

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, hawkeye62 said:

 

I think the difference between the Straight and 18th Century illustrates just how much the wood effects the taste of whiskey. The Straight is much more robust than the 18th Century. I would like to see both in a ten year version.

 

Regards, Jim

 

 

Just to make it more confusing Anchor has periodically released small amounts of the Old Potrero Hotaling's Single (Rye) Malt for some years. But it is different from the other two because while it uses charred barrels they are all once used barrels rather than new barrels.

 

Last one I heard about was the 18yo. It was first released about 10 years ago as I recall. For me at least it is something of a white whale. I have never had a chance to try it at any age. Early on it seemed well regarded. Reviews of older versions seem to be a bit more mixed. I don't even know if they are making more of it that will be released at a younger age or if all of this was from distillate made at one single point in time some 18 years ago that is just being slowly released barrel by barrel.

 

I have heard rumors during a tour at Anchor last spring that they are now making more but I don't know when they started and no idea when it might be released.

Edited November 8, 2016 by tanstaafl2

[hawkeye62]

41 minutes ago, meadeweber said:

No.  Lot 40 is a Canadian whiskey distilled at the Hiram Walker plant in Windsor, ON.  I've never looked into the amount of malted rye before but one source says 10%.

 

Thanks for the info! I looked it up via Google and it seems to be 100 % rye, 10 % malted. Definitely worth a try.  I found a liquor store in Washington State that has it. None in AZ, NV, NM, CO or ID. I have family in Washington, so next trip to visit family I will give it a try. (Can't have liquor shipped to Utah.)

 

Regards, Jim 

[Harry in WashDC]

Welcome to SB.  I look forward to your comments.  Just so you know my biases, I like high rye bourbons (for example, I keep OGD BIB in a trashcan next to my chair so in an emergency or on a whim . . .) but almost always drink real ryes (i.e., 50+% rye mash bill) in cocktails (and have a half dozen or so from "barely rye" to 95% open so I can pick the one I think fits the cocktail of the night best).  Over the last few weeks, however, I started drinking them neat just because I never had (thanks, Paddy - great experience).

 

I can't really pick on your observations.  For example, there is a lot of truth in your comments about Kentucky ryes - their mash bills do tend to be somewhere in the 51-60% rye area with 5% malted barley for fermenting and the rest corn.  That, however, seems to be what the market likes.  With regard to the MGP 95% rye (e.g., Bulleit rye being the easiest example) I find it exceptionally well-made (and I don't own stock in MGPI anymore so . . .).  The mint bomb doesn't bother me, and I've learned how to account for it in cocktails.  The few 100% ryes I have had (like, what, two??) I found to be almost like chewing moldy rye bread - not that I didn't finish the bottles or anything - but they were definitely "different".

 

HH's Pikesville Rye 110 proof has replaced the Redemption releases on my shelf (and has become a large bunker occupier just in case).  I have relegated OO/JB Rye/Ry[1] to the "no more" list.  WT 101 Rye is also a "keep a couple in reserve".  Did I tell you I'm a bourbon fan?  I don't pay much attention to ryes.

[hawkeye62]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 4:47 PM, Harry in WashDC said:

Welcome to SB.  I look forward to your comments.  Just so you know my biases, I like high rye bourbons (for example, I keep OGD BIB in a trashcan next to my chair so in an emergency or on a whim . . .) but almost always drink real ryes (i.e., 50+% rye mash bill) in cocktails (and have a half dozen or so from "barely rye" to 95% open so I can pick the one I think fits the cocktail of the night best).  Over the last few weeks, however, I started drinking them neat just because I never had (thanks, Paddy - great experience).

 

I can't really pick on your observations.  For example, there is a lot of truth in your comments about Kentucky ryes - their mash bills do tend to be somewhere in the 51-60% rye area with 5% malted barley for fermenting and the rest corn.  That, however, seems to be what the market likes.  With regard to the MGP 95% rye (e.g., Bulleit rye being the easiest example) I find it exceptionally well-made (and I don't own stock in MGPI anymore so . . .).  The mint bomb doesn't bother me, and I've learned how to account for it in cocktails.  The few 100% ryes I have had (like, what, two??) I found to be almost like chewing moldy rye bread - not that I didn't finish the bottles or anything - but they were definitely "different".

 

HH's Pikesville Rye 110 proof has replaced the Redemption releases on my shelf (and has become a large bunker occupier just in case).  I have relegated OO/JB Rye/Ry[1] to the "no more" list.  WT 101 Rye is also a "keep a couple in reserve".  Did I tell you I'm a bourbon fan?  I don't pay much attention to ryes.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I also like Bulleit even though it is MGP. It was one of my first ryes. And I used to drink quite a bit of Pappy Family Reserve Rye back when it was about $40 a bottle and widely available. I haven't seen a bottle in over a year. I may give Pikesville 110 a try, it is available here in Utah. And I have Lot 40 on my list for my next trip to Washington state. But, my real passion is for American 100% rye with at least some malted rye and no corn in the mash bill.

 

Regards, Jim     

[Midwest101]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Dad's Hat. 80% rye, 15% barley malt, 5% rye malt according to their website. I've only sampled their young stuff which is not my favorite but there is definitely nothing bourbony about it, to my palate. May float your boat. 

 

I believe they are currently releasing some older stuff, but I haven't come across it.