Airing of grievances

[BigRich]

I'm in a bit of a crotchety mood this afternoon. I started thinking about certain things that I see recurring in whiskey today that chaps my rear. We will leave the down proofing and age statement drops to the side for this topic as they've been discussed exhaustively. So what other bourbon or general whiskey trends just get stuck in your craw?

 

For me the two that I keep coming back to are corks and wax dipping. I think we are at a point where the natural cork is no longer the pinnacle of bottle closure and I've fished out enough broken corks that I'm kind of wishing they would just go away altogether. As for the wax, I get the aesthetic but damn they can be a messy pain the ass to get open.

 

 

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[Ravensfire]

Hear hear on the wax! When it's thick enough that I need a da,n knife most of the time since the weak paper strip broke, again, you're putting it on too damn thick.

I'll add deceptive labels and marketing. Whether it's prominent numbers that aren't age statements or bulls hit stories, those need to go.

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[CardsandBourbon]

Yeah I just about broke my hand trying to get the wax off a bottle the other night. I guess they think if it is harder to get the top off we'll enjoy the bourbon more.

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[TexanBrad]

I agree about wax, either do it correctly or don't do it. Me being in a bad mood by the time I get it open doesn't make your whiskey taste any better.

Ditto to the numbers that aren't age statements. No one cares which recipe you used for your mashbill, they think the 12 you slapped on the front *cough* Dickel *cough* means years about 95% of the time. At least that's less offensive when you put out a reasonably quality product. When you start slapping an 8 on the front of your Old Charter, you're not trying to transmit any useful info about a good bourbon, you're just looking to sucker an old timer who used to buy your age stated stuff.

Lastly, don't tell me how much care goes into your barrel selection for your "hand selected barrels". If you mean that at some point they were touched by human hands, then yes, that's accurate. If you mean your 100,000 case run of your single barrel whiskey had someone sitting and spending 15 minutes getting to know each barrel and not slamming through samples at the speed of light to keep up with production, then no. Come up with a more accurate descriptor, like "special rickhouse barrels" and leave the impression that you're not churning out an ocean of juice aside please.


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[GaryT]

Add me to the chorus of wax/cork haters (remember the waxed screwcaps on the first HHSS?  Probably only lost a couple of drops, but those would have been DAMN DELICIOUS drops!)  And to the big numbers that aren't age statements (in particular those that once WERE age statements).

 

I was going to bring up pricing, but while it irks me where some things come into the market at, hard for me to blame anyone when there's folks lining up to pay hundreds of dollars for BTAC or PVW (so if you can pry $50 for a 4 yr bourbon from folks hands, maybe you should).

 

Here's one - the absolutely outdated 3-tier system, which right or wrong I blame for some of the allocation headaches.  Like when Campari says they'll only do some small single/digit number of private barrels for the whole GD state of Georgia . . . who comes up with this shit?  Maybe not the distributor, but it seemed like the folks who make it (Eddie in the case of WT) would have been more than happy to sell someone a barrel, regardless of their zip code.  I look at the whole setup from an efficiency perspective, and the three-tiered system is intentionally inefficient (and if it wasn't, the laws which require it could go away and the same setup would remain in place).  I'm not trying to beat up on distributors though - they're doing a job, and certainly would remain in business as not every manufacturer would have the volume to handle distribution on their own.  But it should be an intentional decision by the manufacturer or retailer, rather than a mandated structure.  

[b1gcountry]

Cork definitely, especially the ec12 corkboard type cork.

Also the thick foil you need tin snips to remove. Stagg jr, Redbreat 12, etc.

Also bottles that don't fit anywhere. Blantons, pot still, four roses

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[FacePlant]

Yeah, and how about em closing that SW distillery in Shivley. Now that really chaps me. Must have thought that whiskey couldn't cut the mustard. Bastards!

[Flyfish]

With some regularity, newbies ask for bourbon recommendations within certain parameters. SBers generously offer same. Except that prices and availability vary widely. In some control states, there are bourbons you can't get at any price whatsoever. In some states, even big stores like Total Wine only see a few bottles a year of "rare" bourbon, like BT, because whoever gets to decide these things decides that customers in the great state of XX only want to buy 4 bottles a year. Total. On our winter trip to the southwest, Mrs. F and I were on a quest for Stagg Jr.  The boys in Tucson and Phoenix just laughed. So did the boys in El Paso, San Antonio, and Houston. Except in Houston we got a tip that the Costco in Conroe had five bottles. Made the trip through Houston traffic to get some. Then, in Baton Rouge, found a store with 36 bottles! Selling for 45.99 each!  So, not only quantity by great price as well.

Whoever designs the distribution algorithms needs to do a much better job of matching up the supply with the demand.

[CardsandBourbon]

With some regularity, newbies ask for bourbon recommendations within certain parameters. SBers generously offer same. Except that prices and availability vary widely. In some control states, there are bourbons you can't get at any price whatsoever. In some states, even big stores like Total Wine only see a few bottles a year of "rare" bourbon, like BT, because whoever gets to decide these things decides that customers in the great state of XX only want to buy 4 bottles a year. Total. On our winter trip to the southwest, Mrs. F and I were on a quest for Stagg Jr.  The boys in Tucson and Phoenix just laughed. So did the boys in El Paso, San Antonio, and Houston. Except in Houston we got a tip that the Costco in Conroe had five bottles. Made the trip through Houston traffic to get some. Then, in Baton Rouge, found a store with 36 bottles! Selling for 45.99 each!  So, not only quantity by great price as well.
Whoever designs the distribution algorithms needs to do a much better job of matching up the supply with the demand.

Preach it brother. I've been all over my town & part of Louisville & found zero bottles of GTS & 1 bottle of ETL, which they were asking $99.99. Live less than 2 hours from all these distilleries and we get squat.


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[namadio]

15 hours ago, GaryT said:

Here's one - the absolutely outdated 3-tier system, which right or wrong I blame for some of the allocation headaches.  Like when Campari says they'll only do some small single/digit number of private barrels for the whole GD state of Georgia . . . who comes up with this shit?  Maybe not the distributor, but it seemed like the folks who make it (Eddie in the case of WT) would have been more than happy to sell someone a barrel, regardless of their zip code.  I look at the whole setup from an efficiency perspective, and the three-tiered system is intentionally inefficient (and if it wasn't, the laws which require it could go away and the same setup would remain in place).  I'm not trying to beat up on distributors though - they're doing a job, and certainly would remain in business as not every manufacturer would have the volume to handle distribution on their own.  But it should be an intentional decision by the manufacturer or retailer, rather than a mandated structure.  

 

I wish I could remember the reasons why, but of the 3 liquor store owners/high ups that I have a good personal relationship with, too my surprise they have all voiced their support for the three tier system

[PaulO]

I have two main grievances to air -

The profile of Old Forester Signature changed.  The bottle hang tag used to have all this about mingling different aged barrels to maintain consistency.  My last bottle tasted like Kentucky Tavern: big blast of ethanol, bitter aftertaste, not good.  I've moved on.

 

Then Old Fitzgerald BIB disappeared.  I guess that and HH 6 year BIB are going KY only.

With the Old Fitz gone; I don't have any wheaters that I could just go out and buy.  Larceny and MM are just so-so to me.  Really, for $25 I'd find something else I like better, but not a wheater.  In my mind OWA and W12 are not even made anymore.

[DeepCover]

9 hours ago, namadio said:

 

I wish I could remember the reasons why, but of the 3 liquor store owners/high ups that I have a good personal relationship with, too my surprise they have all voiced their support for the three tier system

I'd like to hear the rationale. It makes little sense to me.

[smokinjoe]

I wish that MGPI would quit supplying all of these crap "craft" distilleries that are just riding the boom, just so they can put their label on a bourbon.  The sourced train should be way over, but MGPI keeps feeding the kitty, literally a barrel at a time, to a new label at a time.  STOP!!!  Forget about the "Getting us through until our own juicy ages properly", shtick.  Listen folks, the majority of you "crafties" have no intention of ever releasing anything, and damn near entirely the rest of you will release nothing but crap if you do.   

 

 

[Paddy]

^^^^^^Preach!

[Richnimrod]

11 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I wish that MGPI would quit supplying all of these crap "craft" distilleries that are just riding the boom, just so they can put their label on a bourbon.  The sourced train should be way over, but MGPI keeps feeding the kitty, literally a barrel at a time, to a new label at a time.  STOP!!!  Forget about the "Getting us through until our own juicy ages properly", shtick.  Listen folks, the majority of you "crafties" have no intention of ever releasing anything, and damn near entirely the rest of you will release nothing but crap if you do.   

 

 

Ohhhh, Joe!       Stop holding back, and tell us what you really think!   

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Richnimrod

[whiskeyagonzo]

I'm in a bit of a crotchety mood this afternoon. I started thinking about certain things that I see recurring in whiskey today that chaps my rear. We will leave the down proofing and age statement drops to the side for this topic as they've been discussed exhaustively. So what other bourbon or general whiskey trends just get stuck in your craw?
 
For me the two that I keep coming back to are corks and wax dipping. I think we are at a point where the natural cork is no longer the pinnacle of bottle closure and I've fished out enough broken corks that I'm kind of wishing they would just go away altogether. As for the wax, I get the aesthetic but damn they can be a messy pain the ass to get open.
 
 
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Are you coming to Sampler? If so we should sit down with this bottle [emoji2]

[bourbon4all]

This

2 hours ago, whiskeyagonzo said:

Are you coming to Sampler? If so we should sit down with this bottle

Too perfect

[bourbon4all]

On 3/27/2017 at 7:19 PM, DeepCover said:

I'd like to hear the rationale. It makes little sense to me.

I wonder if it is because otherwise they would be dealing with deliveries all day

[PaulO]

I 100% agree with Smokinjoe.

I think an IN DSP 1 bottled in bond would be very interesting.

[Flyfish]

On 3/27/2017 at 8:19 PM, DeepCover said:

I'd like to hear the rationale. It makes little sense to me.

There are all kinds of excuses but little rational(e).  "We don't want to drive the Mom and Pop stores out of business. They only sell a few bottles a year and could never compete with the Big Boys."  But if they only sell "a few bottles a year" they aren't making a living at it anyway.  "We don't want to make liquor too cheap and easy to get because that would promote underage drinking." Because everyone knows that 15 year old kids all want to get plastered on Pappy. 

Control states tend to control the minimum price, not the maximum. Some retailers take solace in the knowledge that they are guaranteed to make X% because they can never be undercut on price. So, they tend to support the tier system. And consumers take solace in the knowledge that they will never be abused by the Big Boys who don't charge enough for they bourbon they sell.   

[BigRich]

Are you coming to Sampler? If so we should sit down with this bottle [emoji2]

Sadly no. It's the first one I'm missing in years. And the Festival isn't looking too good this year either based on room availability.


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[smokinjoe]

I need to tread carefully here, as this is Bigrich's thread and he does blog about whiskey.  He is also my friend, and is 6'-5" 320 lbs and a black belt in 5 different martial arts disciplines...I don't want to piss him off...    He and a few others like him who have been writing about this for many years and are basically doing it for their own enjoyment and entertainment in sharing their thoughts to really nobody in general are not the target of this grievance.  These few tend not to take themselves too seriously, and unless you go to their site, you wouldn't know who they are.  So, I don't include him, and a few ( really, just a few)  other bloggers in the group I speak of next...

I hate the proliferation of penny ante bourbon bloggers who are springing up like mushrooms after a spring rain, and who couldn't even spell the word bourbon 3 years ago.  Then, they start a bourbon blog and proceed to go on blabbering about as if they actually know something, while actually knowing dick.  They write as if their thoughts and opinions have some sort of relevance, and because they have a blog they are now some sort of bourbon expert.  They spend 3/4 of their time publicly retweeting, reposting, and circle-jerking each other off in some sort of self gratifying group corroboration, if they're not otherwise pandering for free samples, favors, and attention.  They promote and encourage themselves and each other as impactful where in reality, they are nothing but wasted internet space.   I guess this goes along with the success of the industry, and if something is popular there will always be those who will seek attention to themselves through it.  But, this is a glut I look forward to ending sooner than later.

[BigRich]

I need to tread carefully here, as this is Bigrich's thread and he does blog about whiskey.  He is also my friend, and is 6'-5" 320 lbs and a black belt in 5 different martial arts disciplines...I don't want to piss him off...  [emoji3]  He and a few others like him who have been writing about this for many years and are basically doing it for their own enjoyment and entertainment in sharing their thoughts to really nobody in general are not the target of this grievance.  These few tend not to take themselves too seriously, and unless you go to their site, you wouldn't know who they are.  So, I don't include him, and a few ( really, just a few)  other bloggers in the group I speak of next...

I hate the proliferation of penny ante bourbon bloggers who are springing up like mushrooms after a spring rain, and who couldn't even spell the word bourbon 3 years ago.  Then, they start a bourbon blog and proceed to go on blabbering about as if they actually know something, while actually knowing dick.  They write as if their thoughts and opinions have some sort of relevance, and because they have a blog they are now some sort of bourbon expert.  They spend 3/4 of their time publicly retweeting, reposting, and circle-jerking each other off in some sort of self gratifying group corroboration, if they're not otherwise pandering for free samples, favors, and attention.  They promote and encourage themselves and each other as impactful where in reality, they are nothing but wasted internet space.   I guess this goes along with the success of the industry, and if something is popular there will always be those who will seek attention to themselves through it.  But, this is a glut I look forward to ending sooner than later.

I hate them too. Despite the hypocrisy of saying it and a little bit of self loathing I f--ing hate them. When we started there a lot fewer and none in the South talking about locally available stuff but damn it has gotten way out of hand.

 

And it's 315 pounds.

 

 

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[M1marksman]

I've only been enjoying bourbon for a couple of years, not an expert by far. When I enjoy my bourbon it is still an "experience", an almost ritualistic occurrence. I love the corked bottles. I've never had a cork break off inside a bottle, that could change my perspective. I completely understand that plastic screw tops are better and almost fail proof but they seem cheap to me. I remember searching for months for a bottle of OWA, a difficult bottle to find around here. Upon getting it home I was just a little disappointed to find a plastic screw top under the wrapper. All these months searching for this mysterious elixir and I don't even get to uncork it, just unceremoniously unscrew it like a bottle of cough syrup. 

 

As far as the wax goes, if you are going to do it do it right. Open a bottle of Knob Creek and you will have a 10 minute clean up job on your hands. Not the end of the world, but why?

 

And finally, since we are airing grievances, I'll post mine. Plastic bottles, I don't see them a lot but they give the appearance of bottom shelf booze. I would think that they would eventually give the contents a plastic flavor.

[petrel800]

Smooth, Juice, Unicorn . . . and whatever new term the cool bourbon kids are saying these days.