Sazerac and Age Intl, re: Blanton's Non-US releases

[Northern Bourbon]

I've been sleuthing around about the agreement between Age International and Sazerac regarding distribution of non-US Blanton's. We are to believe that some Blanton's expressions (e.g. SFTB, Gold) aren't distributed in the US because of a agreement between the owner of the brand and the producer. I've seen an employee at Buffalo Trace allude to something on the internet which connects to this thing I just read that interested me, and it's stoked my fire:

 

In the AMA with BT on /r/Bourbon from 2013, "PrivatePyle" asked about Straight From The Barrel coming to the US:

 

Quote

Buffalo Trace: Unfortunately not, due to “grey market” concerns in Japan those brands are limited to Japan only.

 

We have reason to disregard the entire answer because of the false statement of Japan-limited brands. Although, if we see this as an oversight, and they really meant "outside US", what exactly could the reference to a "grey market concern" mean? Is the distribution not regulated in the agreement? Or does "grey market" in this case just reference the limited distribution?

 

Does anyone have any info on what's in the agreement between Age International and Sazerac re: distribution of non-US Blanton's? I'm aware that this is business, and not necessarily intended for outsiders, but maybe someone here has something? Is the agreement renewed regularly, or will we see it run out?

[fishnbowljoe]

IIRC, Age International actually owns the Blanton's brand. If that is the case, BT probably doesn't have much of a say in the matter. Just sayin'.

 

Joe

[flahute]

42 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

IIRC, Age International actually owns the Blanton's brand. If that is the case, BT probably doesn't have much of a say in the matter. Just sayin'.

 

Joe

This.

Age owns the brand, BT distills it for them. Age says where it gets distributed.

[Northern Bourbon]

13 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

IIRC, Age International actually owns the Blanton's brand.

12 hours ago, flahute said:

This.

Age owns the brand, BT distills it for them

 

Correct.

 

13 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

If that is the case, BT probably doesn't have much of a say in the matter. Just sayin'.

12 hours ago, flahute said:

Age says where it gets distributed.

 

Ah, I see. Do we know if the production/distribution of Blanton's is a remnant of an agreement still in effect, made before the Saz/Age-split, or could it be a lucrative deal for BT to make and distribute a small single barrel bourbon for a niche non-US market, to complement the rest of their portfolio?

 

The implication from the BT employee was that Sazerac wants domestic distribution, but Age says no. Has anyone heard of anything to back this up, or was it a one-off rumor?

[fishnbowljoe]

Here's a link to one of our members blog that might help explain things just a little. 

 

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2013/12/it-was-best-of-times-it-was-worst-of.html

 

More info might be found if you use the search function and check back in the archives here.

 

Joe

 

 

[Northern Bourbon]

12 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Here's a link to one of our members blog that might help explain things just a little. 

 

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2013/12/it-was-best-of-times-it-was-worst-of.html

 

More info might be found if you use the search function and check back in the archives here.

 

Joe

 

 

 

Thank you for the tips! The @cowdery article, fantastic as always, is actually what sparked my interest in the question. I think I'll go through it again so see if I've missed anything.

 

Search results didn't yield much else than that an agreement exists. Maybe that's about as far as I'll get

[jsrudd]

I don't think anyone has addressed your question about grey market concerns. The basic concern is that, if Blanton's SFTB were sold at a lower price in the US than in Japan, third-party companies would purchase the Blanton's SFTB at retail in the the US and import it to Japan allowing these companies to undercut the retail price in Japan. This is already quite common in Japan for brands like Booker's, Old Granddad and Four Roses Single Barrel.

 

That being said, I think these grey market concerns are no longer relevant. In 1990, Blanton's cost 16,500 yen. At 1990 exchange rates, that would be $135. In 1990, Blanton's would have been much cheaper in the US than in Japan and Age International's concerns about grey market imports to Japan were warranted. Today, Blanton's costs about 4,500 yen which is about $40. This is much less than it costs in the U.S. and so there is no risk of grey market imports. 

[Richnimrod]

7 hours ago, jsrudd said:

I don't think anyone has addressed your question about grey market concerns. The basic concern is that, if Blanton's SFTB were sold at a lower price in the US than in Japan, third-party companies would purchase the Blanton's SFTB at retail in the the US and import it to Japan allowing these companies to undercut the retail price in Japan. This is already quite common in Japan for brands like Booker's, Old Granddad and Four Roses Single Barrel.

 

That being said, I think these grey market concerns are no longer relevant. In 1990, Blanton's cost 16,500 yen. At 1990 exchange rates, that would be $135. In 1990, Blanton's would have been much cheaper in the US than in Japan and Age International's concerns about grey market imports to Japan were warranted. Today, Blanton's costs about 4,500 yen which is about $40. This is much less than it costs in the U.S. and so there is no risk of grey market imports. 

...BUT... Maybe 'reverse' grey market could be a concern to AI?     Hell, I'd be delighted to get it for anything under $60!    ...Plenty of room in that difference for a profitable little 're-importation' business, eh?     Not that I'd ever buy any whiskey on the 'grey market'; but, I'm sure loads of folx have differing ideas about this.

[Northern Bourbon]

On 2017-05-06 at 8:01 AM, jsrudd said:

I don't think anyone has addressed your question about grey market concerns. The basic concern is that, if Blanton's SFTB were sold at a lower price in the US than in Japan, third-party companies would purchase the Blanton's SFTB at retail in the the US and import it to Japan allowing these companies to undercut the retail price in Japan. This is already quite common in Japan for brands like Booker's, Old Granddad and Four Roses Single Barrel.

 

That being said, I think these grey market concerns are no longer relevant. In 1990, Blanton's cost 16,500 yen. At 1990 exchange rates, that would be $135. In 1990, Blanton's would have been much cheaper in the US than in Japan and Age International's concerns about grey market imports to Japan were warranted. Today, Blanton's costs about 4,500 yen which is about $40. This is much less than it costs in the U.S. and so there is no risk of grey market imports. 

 

It would be interesting if there is anything to learn from this, by looking at other commodities first considered "regional", but are now global in obtainability.

 

Can we assume that the intent of Age Intl is to "spread the wealth" by offering premium bourbon to a Non-US market only?

 

On 2017-05-06 at 3:38 PM, Richnimrod said:

...BUT... Maybe 'reverse' grey market could be a concern to AI?     Hell, I'd be delighted to get it for anything under $60!    ...Plenty of room in that difference for a profitable little 're-importation' business, eh?     Not that I'd ever buy any whiskey on the 'grey market'; but, I'm sure loads of folx have differing ideas about this.

 

I've seen this on Instagram already. Not often more than a couple of bottles and so probably not much enough to concern the distributors I'd imagine, but still.

[Kyjd75]

In the past I've been able to purchase both Blanton's Gold and SFTB when we visit St. Croix, USVI, which we do periodically.  Was there a month ago (first time back in about 16 months) and searched my favorite spots for some more.  Owners told me that Blanton's had disappeared from the islands and they had no idea as to when any would show up.  Also said they had people asking everyday for both.  You go figure.

[jeffrey r]

53 minutes ago, Kyjd75 said:

In the past I've been able to purchase both Blanton's Gold and SFTB when we visit St. Croix, USVI, which we do periodically.  Was there a month ago (first time back in about 16 months) and searched my favorite spots for some more.  Owners told me that Blanton's had disappeared from the islands and they had no idea as to when any would show up.  Also said they had people asking everyday for both.  You go figure.

 

Interesting.  I was in the Cayman Islands back in April, and I came across both Blanton's Gold and SFTB in the CI airport duty free.  I was so happy to have finally found them, and bought 2 of each.

[DeepCover]

18 hours ago, jeffrey r said:

 

Interesting.  I was in the Cayman Islands back in April, and I came across both Blanton's Gold and SFTB in the CI airport duty free.  I was so happy to have finally found them, and bought 2 of each.

Good to know. I'll be there next week and will most certainly check it out.

[jeffrey r]

6 minutes ago, DeepCover said:

Good to know. I'll be there next week and will most certainly check it out.

 

Jealous, for a number of reasons.  My family loved the Caymans.  First time there, and we will definitely be back.  And if you are at the CI airport heading outbound, you will see one bigger duty free store, and one smaller store.  It was actually the smaller store that had the stashes of SFTB and Gold (plenty of each).  My 12 year old tagged along with me when I was searching around duty free while waiting for our flight to depart, and I had to hide my glee when I saw the wall of Blanton's...

 

If I had to do it over again, instead of two of each, I would have done three SFTB, and one Gold just to try out.  The SFTB is something special (you can always proof down, but can't proof up), while the Gold is merely interesting (still very good, and spicier and "darker" than typical Blanton's).  I was worried about bringing back more and raising the eyebrows of customs at Newark.  As it was, they did not question the two duty free cartons we were carrying. 

 

Good luck.

[mark fleetwood]

still available online at masterofmalt, but coming from U.K. the shipping and duties are high.