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FasterHorses

Reasonable markups

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FasterHorses

I see the WLW and George T Stagg selling online for exhorbitant prices. My LS contact said they dont mark theirs up too much... maybe 30-40%. What is retail and/or reasonable to pay for these two?

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DeepCover

MSRP is $90. Above and beyond that, what you're willing to pay for a bottle is entirely up to you and where you value the bottle. I would never pay secondary market prices, which look to be about $600/bottle. I've paid 2x retail at the highest.

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FasterHorses
16 minutes ago, DeepCover said:

MSRP is $90. Above and beyond that, what you're willing to pay for a bottle is entirely up to you and where you value the bottle. I would never pay secondary market prices, which look to be about $600/bottle. I've paid 2x retail at the highest.

I agree on the not paying secondary market prices. I feel like this opportunity at this LS may actually present itself and didnt want to be unprepared as to what range to walk away. Thanks for the Info.!

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kevinbrink

I have over paid for a few bottles ORVW 10 for $125, Lot B for $150. I know for some those would be reasonable prices, but at this point I wouldn't do it again as I can't think of many bottle I would spend over $150 for, Lot B. certainly isn't one. That range is my upper limit at the moment and at that price I would probably only buy GTS, WLW, Saz18, and maybe the 4R LEs.  But that's just me.

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Bob_Loblaw

I do not have any of the BTAC so would probably pay up to $150  if given the chance.  Secondary pricing does not really matter when you plan to drink the bottle anyway. . . 

 

Edited by Bob_Loblaw
typo

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The Black Tot

I also wouldn't pay over 150.

 

This mania will pass. There's no rush.

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Flyfish

What's reasonable depends on where you are. Prices vary widely across the country. I pity the fools who live in the state of Washington. I also pity the fools who live in Ohio where the state liquor gods determine that, thanks to the state minimum, I will never pay less than what they think it is worth. So, at least we are spared that form of "abuse." (I tend to buy a lot of WT101 handles when we travel if I see it for only a couple bucks more than I pay for a 750 back home. Likewise for KC.)  The liquor gods also make sure than I will not be seduced by swill like WLW & GTS by declaring that I will never see a bottle of either.

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The Black Tot
11 hours ago, DeepCover said:

MSRP is $90. 

And let's not forget that THAT includes a 30-40% markup for them already.

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FasterHorses
2 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

And let's not forget that THAT includes a 30-40% markup for them already.

If the opportunity comes about.. these seem more appealing than the pappy if its a choice. Am i way off with that line of thinking? Ihave never tasted any of these or pappy

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The Black Tot

Since you've asked...

 

Having tasted them all the most important takeaway is that you can live without ANY of them very happily.

 

People line up to pay for these things as though they were oxygen.

 

That's why I say if you can't get them for a fair price, which I put at $150 or less (and I wouldn't be very grateful to the store who charged me 150 either), then just find yourself a good store pick of KCSB or 4R for less than half that and don't lose a single minute's sleep over it.

 

This is all FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out. Do these whiskeys taste great? Sure they do. But keep your head - it's still only whiskey. They don't taste any better than some of the better barrel picks I've had from your very own Frugal McDoogal's, for example.

 

This bubble won't last, and they're not going to stop making BTAC or Pappy. Incidentally I don't look for Pappy at all. I have had all 3 Pappys, and I actually prefer ORVW10, if I can find it for $80 or less. And if I can't, I shrug my shoulders and buy something else.

 

I got started in bourbon drinking when Pappy and BTAC were just something you had to hustle a tiny bit for. I'd be crazy disappointed if I started out recently and I had to go to modern lengths to get it. It wouldn't be worth it.

 

We're buying at the top of the market right now. Pace yourself. The door to Aladdin's cave isn't open anymore. Find the solid bourbon that you really enjoy that nobody cares about yet. Something like Russell's Reserve 10yr, which most people overlook because it's not the 110 proof single barrel, and yet the 10yr is delicious for under 40 bucks. Or maybe you're a Henry McKenna fan (it's not a match for my palate but a lot of guys here who know their stuff love it). Every distillery has that sleeper product in their line. Evan Williams Single Barrel. Knob Creek Single Barrel. 4R, the list goes on. Find the store pick versions of these. All of them sit on the shelf underappreciated while everyone falls over themselves to follow the herd and overpay for ETL or RHF. Spend your time with these. And if your favorite suddenly becomes the "it" bourbon, pick a different one and wait for the heat to blow over. It always does.

 

Try some of the great ryes that are out there. I wasted my first three years of whiskey drinking thinking I didn't like rye, but there's a lot of diversity in rye flavor out there to explore, and I don't think any of the most experienced guys on here don't also do rye.

 

Rye gets interesting at a much younger age than bourbon, so it's an ideal spirit to focus on during a boom/bubble, when older bourbons are scarce and 6yr+ ryes are popping up everywhere.

 

Times of better value will come. Look at the bought today threads, even Wellers are starting to turn up again. We're only a few years now away from the early expansion output coming of age. Bardstown Bourbon Co is adding a huge new still, Luxco is coming online. 

 

In short (too late), don't look up at the limiteds, look sideways at all the quality and value out there. If a limited drops into your hands because your store owner wants to help you out, then sure, do it. But while the market is hard, find the value and slowly and enjoyably develop your palate so that when we are again awash in whiskey and the limiteds again get easier to find, you've got the tasting expertise to really get the most out of 'em.

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FasterHorses

Serious thanks for the thoughtful response! My head knows that youre right..actually Ive spent the last two years only buying what I liked. It was confined to 5-6 bourbons/whiskeys/ryes.  The young ryes were actually my preference. I kept seeing and hearing about these Hard to find bottles and then by chance happened upon some OWA and after that; i liked the excitement that the search brought. Ive found a few more bottles that arent available in my market and its just generally fun to find and try them. Heres the thing though.. i dont tend to like any of them more than the 5-6 that i rotated before this. Im traveling about 1.5 hours tomorrow to pay retail for a couple Weller 12's and then i think im done. Unless this super nice old fella comes through with the WLW or stagg or pappy ( 5 minutes from my house). 

I had no bunker to speak of before this and now i think i'll be fine.. if my liver holds up!!!  The good news for the rest of you is.. when the game starts paying off for me, that usually means the end is in sight. 

Thanks again for your reply sir.

Edited by FasterHorses

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The Black Tot

My pleasure...

 

...but someday when we get the chance to drink together I'll make you pay for calling me sir :)

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smokinjoe

There is no whiskey (or other spirit) produced anywhere in the world that is superior to George T Stagg.  It is truly among the greatest of the greats, at ANY price.  I won't suggest you should pay any particular price for it, but it is worth every penny of whatever you want to pay...regardless of how high that is. 

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The Black Tot
1 minute ago, smokinjoe said:

There is no whiskey (or other spirit) produced anywhere in the world that is superior to George T Stagg.  It is truly among the greatest of the greats, at ANY price.  I won't suggest you should pay any particular price for it, but it is worth every penny of whatever you want to pay...regardless of how high that is. 

I got a bottle I could let go for a million bucks, Joe.

 

(don't think it's against SB rules when secondary exceeds $1M)

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lcpfratn

And Joe steps in to jerk all the newbies chains! I agree that GTS is tasty, but it's still just bourbon. As Paul (The Black Tot) so eloquently stated above, there are many PS bottles of various great bourbons out there that are really good...maybe almost as good as GTS, and definitely a whole lot cheaper. Now, having said that, when I'm able to find any BTAC bottles at or close to retail, I buy them, otherwise I pass.


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smokinjoe
8 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

I got a bottle I could let go for a million bucks, Joe.

 

(don't think it's against SB rules when secondary exceeds $1M)

Heehee!  Well out of my budget Paul, but if that's the going rate for Stagg, I can't think of s spirit that should be worth more!

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BigRich
Heehee!  Well out of my budget Paul, but if that's the going rate for Stagg, I can't think of s spirit that should be worth more!

All the new guys need to take Joe's recommendations with a grain of salt. After drinking with him regularly for 6+ years or so I can say that he really likes some weird shit.

But Stagg is really damn good. Not $500 a bottle good but really good.

I don't personally pay those prices for things like that but to each their own. I view this bourbon price inflation in the same vein as ticket resellers like StubHub, etc. I loath each in equal measure.


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CardsandBourbon
16 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

There is no whiskey (or other spirit) produced anywhere in the world that is superior to George T Stagg.  It is truly among the greatest of the greats, at ANY price.  I won't suggest you should pay any particular price for it, but it is worth every penny of whatever you want to pay...regardless of how high that is. 

And living less than 1 hour from BT I'm still waiting to see, much less buy my first bottle of GTS.  Paul I'm not paying $1,000,000 for a bottle of it.  Would you entertain an offer of $999,999?

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berto

Reasonable depends on your wallet.  What you or I might consider reasonable is probably very different than what the hedge fund guy two floors below me thinks is reasonable.  I might be willing to pay double MSRP for WLW or GTS but I'm just as likely to tell the shop owner selling said bottles for those prices where he can shove them.  Realistically anything sought after on a shelf for secondary or below is selling ASAP where I live.  As others have said there is a ton of very good to great stuff on shelves that's both available and affordable.        

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Bob_Loblaw

 

17 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

But while the market is hard, find the value and slowly and enjoyably develop your palate so that when we are again awash in whiskey and the limiteds again get easier to find, you've got the tasting expertise to really get the most out of 'em.

 

The whole post was great, but this last sentence perfectly sums up my thoughts on the whole LE issue.  There is no point of going crazy to obtain this magical bottle when you have not tasted/experienced enough bourbons to know what you love and why.  

 

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The Black Tot
19 minutes ago, CardsandBourbon said:

And living less than 1 hour from BT I'm still waiting to see, much less buy my first bottle of GTS.  Paul I'm not paying $1,000,000 for a bottle of it.  Would you entertain an offer of $999,999?

 

No deal :) Besides, as I suggested, below $1M and secondary discussions are forbidden on SB.com.

 

But all this aside, it's hard to feel sorry for the guy who lives right in the heart of honey barrel private selection land! :) 

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jeff

Damn true, Joe!

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CardsandBourbon
6 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

 

No deal :) Besides, as I suggested, below $1M and secondary discussions are forbidden on SB.com.

 

But all this aside, it's hard to feel sorry for the guy who lives right in the heart of honey barrel private selection land! :) 

Well with taxes it would be over $1M so I don't think I violated anything. ;)  Speaking of honey barrels LB has a KC 120 PS that has the age stated on their little silver label 13 years 5 months.  I think one of those is going to find it's way home with me tomorrow.  So yeah, I don't expect you to feel sorry for me.:D

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Paddy

^^^I don't!  :P  I have always been a fan of the Beam profile, and KCSB has been piling up in my bunker for the past 5 years or so.  I realize you've also become a fan, but it really is hard to screw up what is essentially a 9-14 year old barrel proof whiskey that sells for under $50 a pop isn't it?  Especially when you can literally walk into any LS and pluck it off the shelf!   

 

From one who has chased, and chases no more.  GTS is a great whiskey, but Stagg Jr. is a very, very, very (did I say very:lol:) good whiskey in its own right.  As you know, it's also much easier to find, and less expensive.  It also gets an extra star from me for just being a less pain in my ass to get ahold of.  :lol:  My unsolicited advice is, don't lament over GTS.  Just get a bar pour and get it out of your system.  Hell, if you can't find it in a bar, just shoot me a pm next time your over this way (Lexington) and I'll pour you a nice two fingers!  Then you've realized it's still just whiskey, and can focus on the real business at hand of loading up on the good lord has given us even during this crazy time (Stagg Jr.), and get more for way less!  My bunker is full of Stagg Jr., (yes, it has taken time but I am a patient man) so I (once again) will waste not one minute of my time chasing BTAC in this current market.  Stand in line for a chance to get a bottle of something at Liquor Barn?  Hell no!!!  Get a call from someone wanting to drop something in my lap?  Well, you already know the answer to that!  :) 

 

As Paul has noted many times, this craze will pass and there's far to much great value whiskey still out there to throw good money away on overpriced whiskey.  GTS, OF Birthday, Pappiez, et all...all good whiskey, but still whiskey, so if they're not adding gold nuggets to the mash, not worth the bullshit prices people are paying now.

 

So, I guess all this was actually on topic.  I'm shocked!  :o 

 

 

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Stump1998
10 hours ago, Paddy said:

^^^I don't!  :P  I have always been a fan of the Beam profile, and KCSB has been piling up in my bunker for the past 5 years or so.  I realize you've also become a fan, but it really is hard to screw up what is essentially a 9-14 year old barrel proof whiskey that sells for under $50 a pop isn't it?  Especially when you can literally walk into any LS and pluck it off the shelf!   

 

From one who has chased, and chases no more.  GTS is a great whiskey, but Stagg Jr. is a very, very, very (did I say very:lol:) good whiskey in its own right.  As you know, it's also much easier to find, and less expensive.  It also gets an extra star from me for just being a less pain in my ass to get ahold of.  :lol:  My unsolicited advice is, don't lament over GTS.  Just get a bar pour and get it out of your system.  Hell, if you can't find it in a bar, just shoot me a pm next time your over this way (Lexington) and I'll pour you a nice two fingers!  Then you've realized it's still just whiskey, and can focus on the real business at hand of loading up on the good lord has given us even during this crazy time (Stagg Jr.), and get more for way less!  My bunker is full of Stagg Jr., (yes, it has taken time but I am a patient man) so I (once again) will waste not one minute of my time chasing BTAC in this current market.  Stand in line for a chance to get a bottle of something at Liquor Barn?  Hell no!!!  Get a call from someone wanting to drop something in my lap?  Well, you already know the answer to that!  :) 

 

As Paul has noted many times, this craze will pass and there's far to much great value whiskey still out there to throw good money away on overpriced whiskey.  GTS, OF Birthday, Pappiez, et all...all good whiskey, but still whiskey, so if they're not adding gold nuggets to the mash, not worth the bullshit prices people are paying now.

 

So, I guess all this was actually on topic.  I'm shocked!  :o 

 

 

Perfectly said. Think I will save this for the next time I miss out on another LE. I will read it again kick back and have a pour of Stagg Jr., Eagle Rare, or WT101 and relax!

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