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Rum the next Bourbon

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smokinjoe
1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

I would never call you summarizable, Joe. Just one of your million mysterious scintillating facets.

Yeal Paul, but you even missed wildly by attributing that false dichotomy to me.  

But, I am pleased that you notice my complexities...:D

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The Black Tot

Well I do apologize for the false dichotomy, and welcome further discussion on the matter.

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birdie
54 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

It's a 12yr age statement version of RL Seale's 10yr.

 

It is very caramel like sweet, but naturally so, from barrel extractions, not sugar addition.

 

I enjoy it, but I haven't stockpiled it or anything. It's not the first thing I'd choose to bring over from the UK. Blanton's straight from the barrel comes more to mind on that front. 

Luckily I have family that travels back and forwards, as do I, a number of times per year, so I am well stocked on straight from the barrel and the gold version. So on my brothers trip over in November I want him to bring rum, just not knowledgeable enough as to what, he had mentioned Kill the Devil from the closed Caroni distillery but that's 200 pounds a bottle.

 

 

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birdie
54 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

It's a 12yr age statement version of RL Seale's 10yr.

 

It is very caramel like sweet, but naturally so, from barrel extractions, not sugar addition.

 

I enjoy it, but I haven't stockpiled it or anything. It's not the first thing I'd choose to bring over from the UK. Blanton's straight from the barrel comes more to mind on that front. 

Luckily I have family that travels back and forwards, as do I, a number of times per year, so I am well stocked on straight from the barrel and the gold version. So on my brothers trip over in November I want him to bring rum, just not knowledgeable enough as to what, he had mentioned Kill the Devil from the closed Caroni distillery but that's 200 pounds a bottle.

 

 

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smokinjoe
26 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

Well I do apologize for the false dichotomy, and welcome further discussion on the matter.

I'll keep my facets to myself, thank you...:lol:

 

To the OP, obviously Richard Seale is the darling of the rum world.  He is getting lots of attention and ink within the spirits world.  Generally, his rums are favorably viewed.  I would think that if a measurable momentum in rums renaissance continues as some expect, he might be seen as the spark, and these current offerings of his will become the things of legend.  So, I would say whether you want good rum to drink, or want desirable rum as an investment, clearing shelves and hoarding any Seale product you come across should be a mission.  

Edited by smokinjoe

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The Black Tot

Luca Gargano is the darling of the rum world, but he doesn't sell in the US.

 

Richard Seale is his understudy, and he does.

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smokinjoe
16 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

Luca Gargano is the darling of the rum world, but he doesn't sell in the US.

 

Well, that makes it hard to stock up, then...:lol:

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The Black Tot

Well, you said the "rum world" :)

 

Most of it is outside the US.

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smokinjoe
1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

Well, you said the "rum world" :)

 

Most of it is outside the US.

And there, shall it stay.  

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tanstaafl2
On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:24 PM, The Black Tot said:

Luca Gargano is the darling of the rum world, but he doesn't sell in the US.

 

Richard Seale is his understudy, and he does.

 

I know what you are saying but knowing Richard a little bit I doubt he sees himself as anybody's understudy! :D

 

I wonder of Luca will try to bring Clairin to the US at any point?

 

But on your next glamorous vacation to Haiti you probably shouldn't try the locally made version... :wacko:

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tanstaafl2
1 hour ago, kevinbrink said:

At first I figured this article to be just boilerplate clickbait but the it is actually about Velier buying NY office space in preparation for expanding into the US.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-sipping-rum-the-new-bourbon?source=twitter&via=desktop

A little more detail on the Ferrand purchase of the West Indies distillery in Barbados (and Long Pond in Jamaica) in the link found in this article as well.

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kevinbrink
11 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

A little more detail on the Ferrand purchase of the West Indies distillery in Barbados (and Long Pond in Jamaica) in the link found in this article as well.

Unless I misread it sounds like they plan on releasing WIRD products outside of the Plantation Brand, ie: non Finished and hopefully without all of the boise that they generally seem to add.

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tanstaafl2
20 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

Unless I misread it sounds like they plan on releasing WIRD products outside of the Plantation Brand, ie: non Finished and hopefully without all of the boise that they generally seem to add.

Won't know for sure until they show up I suppose. But it is the Long Pond rums that at least initially have me interested. Hopefully they won't muck about with those!

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kevinbrink
Just now, tanstaafl2 said:

Won't know for sure until they show up I suppose. But it is the Long Pond rums that at least initially have me interested. Hopefully they won't muck about with those!

And hopefully it is at a better proof than the Mezan's that seem to be hanging around.

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The Black Tot
5 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

I know what you are saying but knowing Richard a little bit I doubt he sees himself as anybody's understudy! :D

 

I wonder of Luca will try to bring Clairin to the US at any point?

 

But on your next glamorous vacation to Haiti you probably shouldn't try the locally made version... :wacko:

Richard is not an understudy in the production of rum, obviously. Luca is a guest and a consultant in rum production, Richard runs his operation soup to nuts.

 

But in terms of being the rum world's darling, he looks up to Luca, whose word of approval means instant complete sales at 200 euros a bottle.

 

Consider that Richard's own top 3 limited editions only rose so quickly to attention because they had Luca's Velier label attached to them.

 

Luca helps Richard blend his Velier Foursquare limited editions and lends him the status of his brand. Richard doesn't help Luca pick his Caronis or Demeraras.

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tanstaafl2

I got to try a bit at his seminar at Tales. It was a 1yo aged in new oak. Hopefully it will get some additional aging and/or he will release some older stock. The sample was at 130 proof so that was encouraging!

 

59e502ad6ae6c_FerrandLongPondTales.jpg.9dfa38e27015f1925e19571b7542cfd1.jpg59e502bae6b89_FerrandTalesofthecocktail.jpg.ff0fb840640cce0ebb70b1d7c1a4163a.jpg

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The Black Tot
1 hour ago, kevinbrink said:

At first I figured this article to be just boilerplate clickbait but the it is actually about Velier buying NY office space in preparation for expanding into the US.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-sipping-rum-the-new-bourbon?source=twitter&via=desktop

It's a welcome move I suppose but I don't know where they're going to find enough product to satisfy the US market when they can't satisfy Europe as things are.

 

Oh well, if he creates a production vacuum of pure single rum then perhaps producers may find it of interest to expand to fill the requirements. That would obviously be a good thing.

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The Black Tot
3 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

I got to try a bit at his seminar at Tales. It was a 1yo aged in new oak. Hopefully it will get some additional aging and/or he will release some older stock. The sample was at 130 proof so that was encouraging!

Was the taste of the rum also encouraging? By which I mean could you discern any way in which it was unique?

Edited by The Black Tot

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tanstaafl2
1 minute ago, The Black Tot said:

Was the taste of the rum also encouraging? By which I mean could you discern any way in which it was unique?

Yes, definitely ester fruity funk to it as I recall. Needed a bit of water at 130 to me to open it up a bit. New oak was an unexpected choice of course. It was toasted, not char, and presumably French Oak.

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Bbstout
On October 14, 2017 at 4:07 PM, The Black Tot said:

I'd certainly buy the limited and cask strength 4S when you see them. Those are getting hard to find and show no signs of slowing down.

 

4S stuff is a blend of column and pot still output, and they are more scaleable than pure pot stuff. I am hoping for all of our sakes that Richard adds as much capacity as he can possibly do, as soon as possible. Maybe he already has this planned, I haven't spoken to him about it.

 

Richard will be around for a long while yet and his son is being brought up in the business. They'll be making great rum for us long after this new bubble has burst.

 

It's like Weller. I don't sweat the present tightness in the market, because they're making lots of it and the problem will solve itself eventually. I'll very likely live to see bourbon get uncool again.

 

Personally I have about 8 bottles of the 2004 cask strength put aside to weather the storm. 

 

I'm particularly keen to see what happens in the distant future when 4S distillate gets released at 15yrs+ at cask strength.  

Luckily Minnick pointed out the 2006 as the pappy of rum and left us with the lowly 2004. I'm loving the 2004 that was aged 11 years in bourbon barrels. It has some funk but not too much. I'm amazed it still is available.

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The Black Tot
8 minutes ago, Bbstout said:

Luckily Minnick pointed out the 2006 as the pappy of rum and left us with the lowly 2004. I'm loving the 2004 that was aged 11 years in bourbon barrels. It has some funk but not too much. I'm amazed it still is available.

 

I think it was a pretty mighty batch

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quazi

Glad to see Velier setting up an office in the U.S.   I don't think many of the black bottles rums will make it over given their small volume but the Clairins and the Habitation Velier lines will certainly appear.   THey've already started to show up in the TTB.

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Kpiz
13 hours ago, Bbstout said:

Luckily Minnick pointed out the 2006 as the pappy of rum and left us with the lowly 2004. I'm loving the 2004 that was aged 11 years in bourbon barrels. It has some funk but not too much. I'm amazed it still is available.

Unfortunately he compared the entire Foursquare distillery to pappy: "I believe that this distillery is the Pappy of rum..."  The quote may have been attached to marketing materials for the 2006, though, and that wouldn't be surprising because I know I saw it alongside the Criterion.

 

As for the original topic, I don't think rum will ever be as ubiquitous as bourbon. However, I think it's inevitable that quality unadulterated rum will gain enough popularity in the US for these products to incur significant price increases and scarcity. If there's something you like to drink and you want to make sure you have access to it for years to come, buy some and set it aside. I have quite a few Foursquare products in inventory at my house, but I should probably ensure I have at least a mixed case of their regular age-stated releases for future Kyle's drinking enjoyment.

 

For anyone interested in why some ideas, products, and movements catch fire while others fizzle, I highly recommend reading the book "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell. He explores this topic in great detail and makes some interesting fact-based assertions (it is a pretty easy read, though). The author does not explore alcohol but I think the same principles apply. I'll spare everyone a long-winded explanation and just say that quite a few things have to go right in order for a trend to materialize, and we all have our roles in that process (I think many of us here would be considered "mavens", who accumulate and disseminate knowledge).

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kevinbrink

Even 2004 saw a price bump in NY, the last time it was around at Warehouse and Astor it was in the $60 range, now it's at $100 and $80 respectively. I think the Foursquare branded stuff at least in this neck of the woods is already on it's way to be hard to get or overpriced. On the positive side I can still order from some of the CA places or TWCP for less with shipping. 

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