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Pthorpe84

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Pthorpe84

Anyone having issues ordering from them? Trying to get more Blantons Gold and now it says my state is restricted. Wonder if these tariffs are beginning to affect the alcohol market.

 

 

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jvd99

This was addressed in the following thread:

 

 

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flahute
54 minutes ago, Pthorpe84 said:

 

Anyone having issues ordering from them? Trying to get more Blantons Gold and now it says my state is restricted. Wonder if these tariffs are beginning to affect the alcohol market.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Nothing to do with tariffs. Just existing laws being enforced for the first time in a while. 

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Pthorpe84

Thanks guys. Sorry i missed the thread listed above.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

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Kane

Shit, I missed the other thread too.

 

I am not exactly sure that this is simply a matter of existing law getting enforced. MA used to be a no-ship state forever, until sometime around late 2016-2017 Fedex, and Fedex only, got the permission to ship into MA. It was announced on their website, and was permitted by law. Don't remember the details, though. In any case, this was never a violation on MoM's end, and I like to think that Fedex didn't one day decide to go rogue. Hmm... I have some reading to do tonight.

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jvd99

^^^ Let us know, MoM is a great resource that's now cut off for most 

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Surtur

Well the site has also exploded in popularity recently more than before so you can only fly under the radar legally for so long.

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birdie

The two main UK sites are MoM and Whiskey Exchange, they both used to ship to pretty much most of the US, now its down to 8 or so States, and is a real bummer I used them extensively as they often had bourbon you cannot get in the US, as mentioned Blantons Gold and SFTB being two of them.

 

I spoke with MoM yesterday and this has really impacted their business as shipping to the US was a large revenue stream for them.

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Kane
2 hours ago, birdie said:

 

I spoke with MoM yesterday and this has really impacted their business as shipping to the US was a large revenue stream for them.

That's good. Money is the best incentive to make people solve problems, fast.

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Mako254
10 minutes ago, Kane said:

That's good. Money is the best incentive to make people solve problems, fast.

 

My understanding is the hold up in on the states side not MoM side

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Kane

That's my understanding as well. But my statement still holds irrespective of which side has what specific interests ;)

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CUfan99
18 minutes ago, Kane said:

That's my understanding as well. But my statement still holds irrespective of which side has what specific interests ;)

I believe the states would prefer we buy our boos at local stores that charge state sales tax, so what now?

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jvd99

But what recourse does a state have against a European company? The State can’t  enforce its laws at customs because that’s the Feds’ domaine.  Are they going to go after the common carriers like FedEx?  I agree 100% the genesis of this problem is Stateside, but It’s still unclear what caused the sudden stoppage.   Even with a huge revenue stream on the line, I’m not sure how much MoM can do.  

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JT3NSB

I dont think legally they were supposed to ship into certain states anyway.   As a posted above says, I think MoM and others have been flying under the radar for a bit.   Many stateside LS abide by those rules, while some ignore it.  Its ATF tax related I believe. Here in NC, we have tightly controlled silly state regs on liquor.  Technically we aren't supposed to be able to receive liquor shipments via mail in this state, as they miss out on the taxation.    Ill blame Jeff Sessions and his hyper conservative views....

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jvd99
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, JT3NSB said:

I dont think legally they were supposed to ship into certain states anyway.   As a posted above says, I think MoM and others have been flying under the radar for a bit.   Many stateside LS abide by those rules, while some ignore it.  Its ATF tax related I believe. Here in NC, we have tightly controlled silly state regs on liquor.  Technically we aren't supposed to be able to receive liquor shipments via mail in this state, as they miss out on the taxation.    Ill blame Jeff Sessions and his hyper conservative views....

I get all that, but does State law have jurisdiction over a European company that doesn’t do buisiness in the United States?  MoM has to subject to some legal recourse for them to stop shipping.  Any lawyers out there want to take stab?  I highly doubt Jeff Sessions spent the time to single out a few European liquor stores because some states were being  jipped out of sales tax on Blantons Gold & SFTB ^_^ - he’s got bigger fish to fry.  

 

(If you want to take shots at Sessions, there’s always some lively debate in the Politics thread- come on down)

Edited by jvd99

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Clueby

I believe it was the CARRIER (which DOES do business in the US) that this was initiated from.   As MoM noted in their blog..they heard from their "logistics partner".

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flahute
46 minutes ago, jvd99 said:

I get all that, but does State law have jurisdiction over a European company that doesn’t do buisiness in the United States?  MoM has to subject to some legal recourse for them to stop shipping.  Any lawyers out there want to take stab?  I highly doubt Jeff Sessions spent the time to single out a few European liquor stores because some states were being  jipped out of sales tax on Blantons Gold & SFTB ^_^ - he’s got bigger fish to fry.  

 

(If you want to take shots at Sessions, there’s always some lively debate in the Politics thread- come on down)

In the email I received from TWE it stated that it was "a problem with one of our delivery partners". Though they did not go into detail, it sounds like individual states cracking down on fed-ex/ups.

This happened in New York a few years back. I had found some good deals at Astor (before the boom really took off) so I bookmarked them for future shopping. Not long after there was a lot of chatter on the interwebs about New York stores restricting shipping as well as some crackdowns on individuals (who were dealing on secondary of course). A State attorney general was involved as I recall which led to more enforcement of already existing laws and the shippers responded by cutting off all spirits alcohol shipments.

I went back to Astor's website to check, and sure enough, my state was now on the "cannot ship" list. After some time, it was all good again. I don't know the status now because I haven't checked in a while. But, this is the kind of thing that can happen.

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jvd99
1 hour ago, flahute said:

In the email I received from TWE it stated that it was "a problem with one of our delivery partners". Though they did not go into detail, it sounds like individual states cracking down on fed-ex/ups.

This happened in New York a few years back. I had found some good deals at Astor (before the boom really took off) so I bookmarked them for future shopping. Not long after there was a lot of chatter on the interwebs about New York stores restricting shipping as well as some crackdowns on individuals (who were dealing on secondary of course). A State attorney general was involved as I recall which led to more enforcement of already existing laws and the shippers responded by cutting off all spirits alcohol shipments.

I went back to Astor's website to check, and sure enough, my state was now on the "cannot ship" list. After some time, it was all good again. I don't know the status now because I haven't checked in a while. But, this is the kind of thing that can happen.

That makes sense, this could all be caused by a single State attorney general heavily leaning on Fedex/ups, forcing the carriers to abide by all State restrictions for the time being.  This whole situation sounds like its rooted in some political power struggle or some other political genesis.  Perhaps like Astor, shipping may just quietly return in tme.  

 

I like MoM more for single malts because they get tons of stuff that's not available in the US and since they are retailing new product, it has way more reliability (yes, I brought up fakes again :blink:) than an auction house.  Speaking of auctions, I wonder if the auction houses are being pressured to cut off shipping as well.  

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jvd99

OK, it's definitely the shippers, Scotch Whisky Auctions has this update to their US shipping policy, which makes it look like the stoppage came out of the blue because it could prevent shipping of purchased bottles:

 

"Following an update from our US shippers the new list of states we are ship to are:

· Alaska

· California

· Connecticut

· Washington District of Columbia

· Idaho

· Louisiana

· Massachusetts 

· Nebraska

· New Jersey

· New Mexico

· New York

· Oregon

· Rhode Island

· Virginia

· Wyoming

We believe that Texas and Florida will follow shortly. Until then we will continue to hold your shipments.

We are unwilling to send your shipments out if it looks like there may be problems or hold ups. We would rather know that your bottles are here and safe rather than being held in suspension somewhere in a warehouse. 

If you are waiting to complete your payment pending the result of the shipping updates, please pay for the bottles and then we can sort the shipping as required. The sellers of your bottles will expect payment for them as all bids are final. If you do not wish to wait for a shipping resolution, we are happy to enter them straight back into auction on your behalf. We appreciate your patience during this time, this situation is absolutely out of our control and we are just as frustrated as you are!"

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Jamie76

This has nothing to do with taxes.  If it did, I think it could be easily resolved.  No, this has everything to do with those special interest groups (i.e. distributors) that are doing everything to enforce our beloved 3-tier system that are putting the squeeze on shippers.  After all, they know what is best for all of us.

 

I'm more than happy to shop "local" if that means I have choices.  However, if your idea of an indie bottle of rum is Zacapa, we have issues.

 

Sometimes it is difficult to grasp that even in today's age, one can't purchase a completely legal substance from where ever you want.

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JT3NSB
22 hours ago, jvd99 said:

I get all that, but does State law have jurisdiction over a European company that doesn’t do buisiness in the United States?  MoM has to subject to some legal recourse for them to stop shipping.  Any lawyers out there want to take stab?  I highly doubt Jeff Sessions spent the time to single out a few European liquor stores because some states were being  jipped out of sales tax on Blantons Gold & SFTB ^_^ - he’s got bigger fish to fry.  

 

(If you want to take shots at Sessions, there’s always some lively debate in the Politics thread- come on down)

My guess is its at the shipper level.  They aren't supposed to ship alcohol to certain states and had been ignoring it?    -  No need to debate any politics.  I don't have the energy.

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flahute
2 hours ago, JT3NSB said:

My guess is its at the shipper level.  They aren't supposed to ship alcohol to certain states and had been ignoring it?    -  No need to debate any politics.  I don't have the energy.

Yes. What the 4-5 posts above discussed exactly.

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birdie

If my local LS sold Blantons Gold and SFTB, for example, I would buy it from them, but they don't, also there are a lot of good single malts/blends and rums that are available in Europe but not here, Cuban rum is on the shelf in the UK in most LS.

 

I suppose I could understand more if we could ship bottles cheaper from the UK than we can buy in the US.

 

Luckily I am off to the UK in April and will bring a big suitcase :-)

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The Black Tot
Posted (edited)

You can say it's shippers responsible, but it's more like shippers being threatened with action from other bodies.

 

Why would shippers start the problem? They make money for goods being shipped. And they don't make money on goods they're not allowed to ship.

 

It is in shipper's interests for nothing at all to be enforced. They profit from the maximum number of items being shipped.  Period.

 

So if shippers are getting skittish, it's because someone else is pushing enforcement on the shippers. Not the shippers themselves.

 

Like Flahute said " it sounds like individual states cracking down on fed-ex/ups."

 

So that brings us back to taxes. And bribes. In Texas it's certainly due to Spec's being in bed with the state government.

Edited by The Black Tot

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Jamie76
5 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

You can say it's shippers responsible, but it's more like shippers being threatened with action from other bodies.

 

Why would shippers start the problem? They make money for goods being shipped. And they don't make money on goods they're not allowed to ship.

 

It is in shipper's interests for nothing at all to be enforced. They profit from the maximum number of items being shipped.  Period.

 

So if shippers are getting skittish, it's because someone else is pushing enforcement on the shippers. Not the shippers themselves.

 

Like Flahute said " it sounds like individual states cracking down on fed-ex/ups."

 

So that brings us back to taxes. And bribes. In Texas it's certainly due to Spec's being in bed with the state government.

How difficult would it be to tax?  I might be missing something, however, shipment comes in to customs, shipment is going to State A.  The invoice for the transaction is affixed somehow outside shipping package.  Customs charges receiver all required taxes based on invoice and destination state.  Before package clears, taxes must be paid.  Or something along those lines.  I guarantee people purchasing bottles from overseas would be more than willing to pay taxes and I am sure retailers would do what is necessary as well.  Again, I may be over simplifying things, but again, I think it has everything to do with our 3-tier system and the big shots not happy with getting most of the pieces of pie.

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