Smooth Ambler Big Level

[bayouredd]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:08 PM, Charlutz said:

Thanks for the review. I’ve reached the point where I think weller’s distinctive taste (and van winkle for that matter) is more about buffalo trace than the fact that there is wheat in the mashbill. I can find much more in similarities with Weller and VW with the milder BT expressions like ER10 and Blantons than with other wheated whiskey like larceny, rebel yell or maker’s. Id be interested in an updated review if you tasted it with those other distilleries in mind. 

Interesting take. I have wondered about this. It is good to see your take in writing as so many opinions change what one may think and others may even change your approach on the next pour. Damn, I really love this bourbon thing!!!

[bayouredd]

1 hour ago, Cranecreek said:

 

With your two knack for taste notes, you would be naturals to join in the VBT games.  New round starting tonight by Mako.  #621.  It's a hoot at times and good guys playing.  Maybe give it a try ?  or even follow along.

I'm very flattered for the invite, but I am really in the learning process & don't know what I am tasting a lot of times. This is why I appreciate the big boy's take on what they taste. Many times they are explaining what I am tasting better than my own synopsis is giving...

Edited May 30, 2018 by bayouredd

[flahute]

Boy.......just tried some of this. It has issues. It tasted super grainy to me - too young. If I was tasting this blind I'd have guessed about 2-3 years old. I let it sit for a while and started to get some of the sweetness and biscuit mentioned above but it couldn't escape the grain forward white dog flavors. Hard to believe this is 5 years+ old. I think this will start to be good at 7 years old. 

[starhopper]

6 hours ago, flahute said:

Boy.......just tried some of this. It has issues. It tasted super grainy to me - too young. If I was tasting this blind I'd have guessed about 2-3 years old. I let it sit for a while and started to get some of the sweetness and biscuit mentioned above but it couldn't escape the grain forward white dog flavors. Hard to believe this is 5 years+ old. I think this will start to be good at 7 years old. 

You gotta wonder if John Little (the SA master distiller) felt some kind of pressure from their corporate masters (Pernod Ricard) to get this released before it was ready for consumption.

[smokinjoe]

15 hours ago, flahute said:

Boy.......just tried some of this. It has issues. It tasted super grainy to me - too young. If I was tasting this blind I'd have guessed about 2-3 years old. I let it sit for a while and started to get some of the sweetness and biscuit mentioned above but it couldn't escape the grain forward white dog flavors. Hard to believe this is 5 years+ old. I think this will start to be good at 7 years old. 

Your review fits what I thought of 2 earlier Yearling bottles of this, almost to a T.  One was  at 2.5 yr and the other at 3 yr.  It seems there has not been a lot of progress since then.  So, I’m not sure I can share your hopes of the finished product with even another 2 yrs in the rack.    

 

At the end end of the day, the smaller distilleries are going to have to learn to get rid of the graininess in their bourbon whiskies, as they begin approaching somewhat respectable age levels.   I haven’t seen one do it yet.  Compare that to legacy distillery young whiskies, where getting a grainy Bottle is few and far between.  

[kevinbrink]

7 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Your review fits what I thought of 2 earlier Yearling bottles of this, almost to a T.  One was  at 2.5 yr and the other at 3 yr.  It seems there has not been a lot of progress since then.  So, I’m not sure I can share your hopes of the finished product with even another 2 yrs in the rack.    

 

At the end end of the day, the smaller distilleries are going to have to learn to get rid of the graininess in their bourbon whiskies, as they begin approaching somewhat respectable age levels.   I haven’t seen one do it yet.  Compare that to legacy distillery young whiskies, where getting a grainy Bottle is few and far between.  

It's them potstills.... SA isn't as bad as your average craft outfit since they are blending in some column still distillate but I get some of that grainy note on Woodford honestly, or at least I perceive that i do.  

[flahute]

4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Your review fits what I thought of 2 earlier Yearling bottles of this, almost to a T.  One was  at 2.5 yr and the other at 3 yr.  It seems there has not been a lot of progress since then.  So, I’m not sure I can share your hopes of the finished product with even another 2 yrs in the rack.    

 

At the end end of the day, the smaller distilleries are going to have to learn to get rid of the graininess in their bourbon whiskies, as they begin approaching somewhat respectable age levels.   I haven’t seen one do it yet.  Compare that to legacy distillery young whiskies, where getting a grainy Bottle is few and far between.  

Yep. Graininess is such a common flavor in craft. Is it the pot still? I don't know. Is it fermentation and distillation issues? It likely plays a part. I hope these guys are tasting the results of their labor and learning from it and making adjustments.

I don't think I've ever tasted grain forward whiskey from a major. I sometimes get the wet cardboard thing in 4yr old BIB's from HH but that's about it.

Single barrels of OF can taste great at 4.5 years. OGDBIB tastes great at 4. It's possible.

 

At the end of the day, distilling good whiskey is hard.

[Paddy]

^^^I don't think it's the pot still... young is young (which is probably the main reason), but not likely the only factor.  I've tasted grain in whiskey's that are much older than this one, so my money's on a combination of mashbill, cooking, the barrel, and most importantly warehousing.  

 

I do find a bit of acetone, and copper penny as trademarks of the pot still. 

[flahute]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

^^^I don't think it's the pot still... young is young (which is probably the main reason), but not likely the only factor.  I've tasted grain in whiskey's that are much older than this one, so my money's on a combination of mashbill, cooking, the barrel, and most importantly warehousing.  

 

I do find a bit of acetone, and copper penny as trademarks of the pot still. 

Hmmmm......

Our local craft distillery - Woodinville Whiskey - made great strides when they switched barrel types so there's something to that.

Warehousing. Yes. This doesn't get discussed very much because we take it for granted since the majors have it figured out.

[0895]

On 6/10/2018 at 10:58 PM, flahute said:

Boy.......just tried some of this. It has issues.

 

10 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

It's them potstills...

 

10 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Your review fits what I thought of 2 earlier Yearling bottles of this, almost to a T. 

 

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

I do find a bit of acetone, and copper penny as trademarks of the pot still. 

 

Interestingly, I toured SA earlier this year.

They have a new column still up and running.  The old pot is now on doubler duty.

 

The old wheated mashbill got trashed (yearling, wheated bourbon, & big level)

(same whiskey at different ages).

Apparently they were not happy with certain aspects of the old mashbill in regards to taste and how it was aging.

As far as I know, the wheated mash was entirely theirs (nothing blended in).

 

I tried the NEW wheated mash (white whiskey) right off the still and let me tell you it's damned delicious!  Gone are those weird tastes associated with the old distillate.  The person who took me around described the flavor flaws in the old mash as being similar to what the "tails" end of a run tastes like.  I can't say I've ever had the ....pleasure?

 

Anyway, according to plan, we should start seeing first releases of this in the early 2020's, and I am eagerly waiting.  I think most of us can agree that smooth ambler's storage and aging methods seem to be just fine (re: SAOS), but apples & oranges...

The barrels come from independent stave.

 

I bought a big level, knowing exactly what to expect based on my prior experiences with "yearling" and "wheated bourbon".

I bought it more as a time stamp (a baby picture if you will), than something I would love drinking now.  In the future, it will be fun to compare where SA was, to how they grow up.

 

Their wheated bourbon I find can be really right one day a month, and really wrong the other 30 days.  I would expect big level to follow suit, and encourage you guys to try it periodically after eating different things.  You might hit a good, brief, moment with it.

[OldScoutGuy]

4 hours ago, 0895 said:

I think most of us can agree that smooth ambler's storage and aging methods seem to be just fine (re: SAOS)

I think it should be noted that the majority of their Old Scout bourbon has been stored by MGP over the years.

 

I've started to wonder if the climate isn't having some effect on their own aging. You may have noticed all their warehouses are now black in an attempt to attract more heat.

[smokinjoe]

4 hours ago, 0895 said:

 

Their wheated bourbon I find can be really right one day a month, and really wrong the other 30 days.  I would expect big level to follow suit, and encourage you guys to try it periodically after eating different things.  You might hit a good, brief, moment with it.

I guess a good experience in February is out of the question, then...

[BigRich]

I think it all speaks to the fact that there is a lot of craft in making good whiskey. And that craft develops over decades of doing it like many things. It can’t necessarily be scientifically designed to perfection or consulted on for “craft” distillers.

[0895]

4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

I guess a good experience in February is out of the question, then...

Lmao!  Guess I walked right into that...

Edited June 12, 2018 by 0895

[flahute]

I was in Kentucky this weekend for a barrel pick and was hanging out with some well connected bourbon nerd friends, one of which attended a recent event at the Smooth Ambler distillery.

He said that one person came up to John Little and told him how much he liked Big Level. John Little replied that he was about 1 of 3 people who liked it.

Supposedly Pernot pressured them to release it. Supposedly Pernot has now been convinced by John Little to let him decide when the whiskey is ready.

If this is true, I will suspend my judgement (because I thought Big Level was horrible) and will give them another chance,

[OldScoutGuy]

6 hours ago, flahute said:

I was in Kentucky this weekend for a barrel pick and was hanging out with some well connected bourbon nerd friends, one of which attended a recent event at the Smooth Ambler distillery.

He said that one person came up to John Little and told him how much he liked Big Level. John Little replied that he was about 1 of 3 people who liked it.

Supposedly Pernot pressured them to release it. Supposedly Pernot has now been convinced by John Little to let him decide when the whiskey is ready.

If this is true, I will suspend my judgement (because I thought Big Level was horrible) and will give them another chance,

And it's markedly better at cask strength. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they haven't put any out, even if it's just limited to the gift shop.  It would at least put out some better word of mouth. All that said, I tried a batch 19 of Big Level recently and it was slightly better than the earliest batches.

[Jav]

I still haven't seen it for less than $64, and I just don't plan on spending that much money on it...

[jvd99]

Not a fan at all, tastes way too young and green.  It ruined my infinity bottle for a couple months

[Harry in WashDC]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:14 AM, OldScoutGuy said:

And it's markedly better at cask strength. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they haven't put any out, even if it's just limited to the gift shop.  It would at least put out some better word of mouth. All that said, I tried a batch 19 of Big Level recently and it was slightly better than the earliest batches.

My Batch 12(?) (not walking downstairs for you guys just to check) was OK as I've posted elsewhere although that "non"potstill metallic note does drive me nuts.  The Yearling showed promise years ago, and I'm willing to wait a couple more to see if subsequent iterations of SABL improve with age.  SA has been honest enough on product details (and I'm rich enough to take a flyer now and then hahahahaha) that I can take a few more chances.  For those of you who cannot afford to spend or wait - watch this space ________!

[Cranecreek]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:44 PM, Harry in WashDC said:

My Batch 12(?) (not walking downstairs for you guys just to check) was OK as I've posted elsewhere although that "non"potstill metallic note does drive me nuts.  The Yearling showed promise years ago, and I'm willing to wait a couple more to see if subsequent iterations of SABL improve with age.  SA has been honest enough on product details (and I'm rich enough to take a flyer now and then hahahahaha) that I can take a few more chances.  For those of you who cannot afford to spend or wait - watch this space ________!

I continually pass on this "Big Level" given the feedback I read here.  Can you or anyone tell me what the present product would be comparable to ?

[kevinbrink]

1 hour ago, Cranecreek said:

I continually pass on this "Big Level" given the feedback I read here.  Can you or anyone tell me what the present product would be comparable to ?

It tastes like what I imagine young Maker's Mark would taste like, I can't think of anything currently available that is all that close. 

[flahute]

8 hours ago, Cranecreek said:

I continually pass on this "Big Level" given the feedback I read here.  Can you or anyone tell me what the present product would be comparable to ?

 

7 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

It tastes like what I imagine young Maker's Mark would taste like, I can't think of anything currently available that is all that close. 

Yes - young Maker's.

Imagine Maker's at 18 months old. That's what it tastes like to me.

[jvd99]

I would compare it to a very green, too young, overpriced, craft whisky

[Cranecreek]

Due to the generosity of a fellow SBer I can now give my take on this Big Level.  To me it tasted just like corn whiskey with that Frito corn chip flavor and green wood.  Why they would release a whiskey that young does nothing good for the brand moving forward.

[LCWoody]

I haven't bought a bottle, and want for awhile, but I see a trend slowly happening. I'm starting to see it sit on the shelf, no repeat buyers. I'm sure that its not what the MD wanted to put on the market, but the people holding the check book may have put pressure to get something out on the market. I could be wrong, maybe they felt like it's a good bourbon and was ready.