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FasterHorses

Did BT buy the Taylor brand from Beam in 2009? If that’s correct, what label were the barrels in bldg C  used for before 2009? Also, does BT still have any of the barrel inventory they purchased from Beam at that time? 

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HoustonNit
Did BT buy the Taylor brand from Beam in 2009? If that’s correct, what label were the barrels in bldg C  used for before 2009? Also, does BT still have any of the barrel inventory they purchased from Beam at that time? 


This is all speculation but I’ve heard EHT is the reason that Old Charter 101 isn’t made anymore. Might also be a reason why they took away the 8yr age statement on the 80 proof as they started diverting older barrels to EHT.

I would think that Beam wasn’t producing specific barrels for the Taylor line and probably didn’t sell barrels to BT but just my guess. Generally though from what I heard barrel stocks are sold with brand names but usually bigger brands from smaller distilleries. For instance I heard that the early GTS was bottled from barrels of OC bought when BT got the OC brand.
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FasterHorses
7 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

 


This is all speculation but I’ve heard EHT is the reason that Old Charter 101 isn’t made anymore. Might also be a reason why they took away the 8yr age statement on the 80 proof as they started diverting older barrels to EHT.

I would think that Beam wasn’t producing specific barrels for the Taylor line and probably didn’t sell barrels to BT but just my guess. Generally though from what I heard barrel stocks are sold with brand names but usually bigger brands from smaller distilleries. For instance I heard that the early GTS was bottled from barrels of OC bought when BT got the OC brand.

 

Very interesting if that was the fate of the OC age statement. That seems like a good enough trade off. So you think Bldg C was previously designated for OC?

 

An article from cowdery said this..

As an indication of the current shortage of fully aged bourbon, the sale included enough Beam whiskey to support the Taylor brand until Buffalo Trace can make it from their own stocks. (Old Taylor is a 6-year-old straight bourbon.) Both Beam and Trace make a lot of whiskey and Taylor is a small brand, so clearly supplies are strained enough that whiskey needed to be part of the deal

 

.http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2009/06/sazerac-acquires-old-taylor.html?m=1

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HoustonNit
Very interesting if that was the fate of the OC age statement. That seems like a good enough trade off. So you think Bldg C was previously designated for OC?
 
An article from cowdery said this..
As an indication of the current shortage of fully aged bourbon, the sale included enough Beam whiskey to support the Taylor brand until Buffalo Trace can make it from their own stocks. (Old Taylor is a 6-year-old straight bourbon.) Both Beam and Trace make a lot of whiskey and Taylor is a small brand, so clearly supplies are strained enough that whiskey needed to be part of the deal
 
.http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2009/06/sazerac-acquires-old-taylor.html?m=1


Wow, I remember Taylor being a bottom shelf whiskey for Beam so they certainly didn’t sell off good barrels. EHT however isn’t setup as a bottom shelf product with BT. I kind of felt EHT has always been overpriced bourbon in nice packaging. Information like this just seems to confirm those thoughts.

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fishnbowljoe
16 hours ago, FasterHorses said:

Did BT buy the Taylor brand from Beam in 2009? If that’s correct, what label were the barrels in bldg C  used for before 2009? Also, does BT still have any of the barrel inventory they purchased from Beam at that time? 

As far as what other barrels are stored in Warehouse C, I'm not sure about the upper floors, but I know that the bottom floor had at least some Weller at one time. ;) The pic below was one that I once used as my avatar. I saw that barrel the first time I took a tour at BT, and for a number of years after. I jokingly referred to it as "my barrel".  I can't tell you how disappointed I was the time I did a tour at BT and "my barrel" was gone. I remember kidding with someone (maybe Vosgar) that hopefully by some stroke of luck bestowed upon me by the bourbon gods, I may have had a bottle from "my barrel". :)

 

Biba! Joe

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flahute
11 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

For instance I heard that the early GTS was bottled from barrels of OC bought when BT got the OC brand.

 

This is correct. Early GTS was OC stock.

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FasterHorses
1 hour ago, fishnbowljoe said:

As far as what other barrels are stored in Warehouse C, I'm not sure about the upper floors, but I know that the bottom floor had at least some Weller at one time. ;) The pic below was one that I once used as my avatar. I saw that barrel the first time I took a tour at BT, and for a number of years after. I jokingly referred to it as "my barrel".  I can't tell you how disappointed I was the time I did a tour at BT and "my barrel" was gone. I remember kidding with someone (maybe Vosgar) that hopefully by some stroke of luck bestowed upon me by the bourbon gods, I may have had a bottle from "my barrel". :)

 

Biba! Joe

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I hope when you retire, you retire to Frankfort and work on the inside. You could research and compile  all the stuff bourbon geeks want to know about BT. Anyway.. ive seen a few of the BTEC barrels in there on the first floor as well. 

Do you know the estimated age of the EHT bourbons?  ...obviously >4 and the four grain was supposed to be 12. 

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fishnbowljoe
2 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

 


Wow, I remember Taylor being a bottom shelf whiskey for Beam so they certainly didn’t sell off good barrels. EHT however isn’t setup as a bottom shelf product with BT. I kind of felt EHT has always been overpriced bourbon in nice packaging. Information like this just seems to confirm those thoughts.

 

No offense, but you're kinda comparing apples to oranges here. Back in the day, Old Taylor was anywhere from 80 proof to 101 proof. In its current versions from BT, everything is 100 proof except the Barrel Proof. 

 

Biba! Joe

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HoustonNit
No offense, but you're kinda comparing apples to oranges here. Back in the day, Old Taylor was anywhere from 80 proof to 101 proof. In its current versions from BT, everything is 100 proof except the Barrel Proof. 
 
Biba! Joe


That’s exactly the point, it’s somewhat surprising that BT would of have potentially used Beam barrels of Taylor for EHT. Even bottled at 100 proof, these are not considered the same.

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kevinbrink

I would guess the Beam stocks were just used for "Old Taylor" rather than the upmarket CEHT line.  A couple years ago when I was in Virgina Old Taylor was still on the shelves, I don't ever remember it being around here, looks to still be available there as well:

https://www.abc.virginia.gov/products/bourbon/old-taylor-kentucky-bourbon-whiskey-plastic#/product?productSize=0

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fishnbowljoe
13 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

I would guess the Beam stocks were just used for "Old Taylor" rather than the upmarket CEHT line.  A couple years ago when I was in Virgina Old Taylor was still on the shelves, I don't ever remember it being around here, looks to still be available there as well:

https://www.abc.virginia.gov/products/bourbon/old-taylor-kentucky-bourbon-whiskey-plastic#/product?productSize=0

Xactly!  Any distillate that BT received from Beam in the Old Taylor deal is long gone by now. Any OT 6  still around is either bottles languishing around on a few liquor store shelves, and/or some on distributors shelves that were misplaced or forgotten. 

 

Biba! Joe

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HoustonNit
Xactly!  Any distillate that BT received from Beam in the Old Taylor deal is long gone by now. Any OT 6  still around is either bottles languishing around on a few liquor store shelves, and/or some on distributors shelves that were misplaced or forgotten. 
 
Biba! Joe


Ah I for some reason thought those plastic jugs of 6yr or later just 6 Taylor was a Beam bottling and the BT purchase was much more recent. Didn’t realize BT had the brand since 1999. Maybe 6 year was Beam, plain 6 was BT before stock aged some more and they rebranded into EHT.

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kevinbrink
3 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

Maybe 6 year was Beam, plain 6 was BT before stock aged some more and they rebranded into EHT.

 

Seems fit their business strategy

Edited by kevinbrink
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mal00768
5 hours ago, FasterHorses said:

I hope when you retire, you retire to Frankfort and work on the inside. You could research and compile  all the stuff bourbon geeks want to know about BT. Anyway.. ive seen a few of the BTEC barrels in there on the first floor as well. 

Do you know the estimated age of the EHT bourbons?  ...obviously >4 and the four grain was supposed to be 12. 

Maybe it’s better not to know. They are already hard enough to find...I don’t need it to become entirely a unicorn.

Edited by mal00768

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mosugoji64

It still pisses me off that even BT has trashed the OT label by dumping it on the bottom shelf. That label has some history and should get some respect, not just by pushing the upscale EHT version. They talk about how important E.H. Taylor is in their history but show no love for the Old Taylor label, even using the deceptive "6" on the neck while dropping the age statement. Rant mode: Off ...

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Jazz June

The last bottle of Old Taylor I have lists Clermont (Beam) and Frankfort (BT), so it seems clear that they got whiskey from Beam as part of the deal. Virginia still carries Old Taylor, but I don't know when the bottles were actually filled. I was not aware of the age statement being dropped. The bottle I have has the 6 on the neck but says "aged 6 years." Is this being confused with what was done to Very Old Barton? I'll check a bottle next time I see one in the store. I'd also say that the Old Taylor 6 year is worse than either Old Charter 101 or NAS Old Charter 8. The continued use of 6+ year old stuff in an 80 proof bottom shelf product is a bit surprising considering how strapped for whiskey Buffalo Trace is, but maybe it is still largely Beam whiskey they wouldn't want in one of their more prominent brands?

 

My sense of it is that Buffalo Trace wanted the Taylor brand because of its historical connection with the distillery, rather than wanting to specifically continue the current iteration of Old Taylor. However, it seems they didn't want to just drop it, so they got some whiskey from Beam to keep it going in the markets where it does "well." Old Taylor 6 year does not match well with the rest of the CEHT releases, which are certainly aimed up market. The CEHT line is good and I really like the small batch for the $40 MSRP, but I would agree that the regular CEHT line gets too much hype. The SiB has been hit or miss for me and the BP is good, but not tremendously different from Stagg Jr, which is much easier to get (and cheaper). Regular Buffalo Trace and its private selection single barrels seem a more than adequate alternative if you are looking for BT #1 stuff. Old Charter appears to be going the same way, with the launch of the Old Charter Oak line and the formal disappearance of Old Charter 101. It looks like Benchmark will be the only BT #1 bottom shelf brand.

 

 

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DCFan
19 minutes ago, Jazz June said:

Virginia still carries Old Taylor, but I don't know when the bottles were actually filled.

$18.99 for a family sized plastic jug.  It might be a hasty decision on my part but I'm going to pass on this stuff.

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Jazz June
21 minutes ago, DCFan said:

$18.99 for a family sized plastic jug.  It might be a hasty decision on my part but I'm going to pass on this stuff.

While its history was enough to interest me in trying it, I’m by no means recommending it. I wouldn’t consider passing on it hasty at all :)

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mosugoji64
9 hours ago, Jazz June said:

I was not aware of the age statement being dropped. The bottle I have has the 6 on the neck but says "aged 6 years." Is this being confused with what was done to Very Old Barton? I'll check a bottle next time I see one in the store.

 

Let us know what you find. The brand isn't sold here so the only ones I've seen recently are photos from online retailers and the only thing visible is a big "6" without any text. If they've retained the age statement, that's something, but that would be about the only thing they've done to honor the brand. It's not included on their Great Bourbons website, which includes Kentucky Gentleman and Kentucky Tavern, so if it's still made I think that's saying something.

Edited by mosugoji64

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HoustonNit
 
Let us know what you find. The brand isn't sold here so the only ones I've seen recently are photos from online retailers and the only thing visible is a big "6" without any text. If they've retained the age statement, that's something, but that would be about the only thing they've done to honor the brand. It's not included on their Great Bourbons website, which includes Kentucky Gentleman and Kentucky Tavern, so if it's still made I think that's saying something.


I want to say I’ve seen it somewhat recently in a big plastic jug with the 6 but no age statement and saw it a couple years back definitely with the 6 year age statement. I almost bought it but after reading here about bad experiences with it I passed it up.

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Jazz June

I haven't had a chance to look at a bottle in a store, but in looking at prices here, the only cheaper straight bourbons are Old Crow and Kentucky Tavern ($18 a handle versus $19).

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Bbstout

"The CEHT line is good and I really like the small batch for the $40 MSRP, but I would agree that the regular CEHT line gets too much hype. The SiB has been hit or miss for me and the BP is good, but not tremendously different from Stagg Jr, which is much easier to get (and cheaper). "

 

EHTBP goes for $150-$300 on the secondary. 4 years ago I thought it was overpriced at $70. I still do and will take stagg jr @ $45 any day over it considering the premium.

Edited by Bbstout
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Theiano
51 minutes ago, Bbstout said:

 

EHTBP goes for $150-$300 on the secondary. 4 years ago I thought it was overpriced at $70. I still do and will take stagg jr @ $45 any day over it considering the premium.

I tend to agree with this. I find EHTBP to taste quit grainy and to me it tastes younger & harsher than Stagg Jr. It's decent but I picked up my bottle at $75, and I don't think I would buy another at that price.

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JoeTerp
19 hours ago, Bbstout said:

"The CEHT line is good and I really like the small batch for the $40 MSRP, but I would agree that the regular CEHT line gets too much hype. The SiB has been hit or miss for me and the BP is good, but not tremendously different from Stagg Jr, which is much easier to get (and cheaper). "

 

EHTBP goes for $150-$300 on the secondary. 4 years ago I thought it was overpriced at $70. I still do and will take stagg jr @ $45 any day over it considering the premium.

While I haven’t yet tasted the largely applauded batch 9 of Stagg Jr, the tastes I’ve had of EH Taylor Barrel Proof have been substantially better than the Stagg JR I’ve had. I get butterscotch for days on CEHTBP and I’ve really enjoyed the tastes I’ve had. 

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