Are Prices Really That High??

[FumarOne]

Just a question to the consortium.

Do you really think that the prices we are paying for low to mid quality bourbons are out of control?

I come from the food side of manufacturing and I have witnessed the substantial increase of all raw materials, labor and transportation. So why is it that we still want to pay sub $30's to $50 for a quality product that we previously bought for $20 to $30? Tell me what good you have purchased in the last 20 yrs. that has not gone up in price?

How much have your property taxes, utilities, etc. that haven't increased substantially?

I'm not condoning the inflated secondary or LE's with inflated profits, but I don't have a problem with the current pricing. Maybe it's just me!

[0895]

Same reason there’s guys out there who still want to buy a bottle of coke for a nickel. 

There’s no such thing as “the bad old days”

 

what you say, makes sense, but reality is rarely part of our dreams. 

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, 0895 said:

Same reason there’s guys out there who still want to buy a bottle of coke for a nickel. 

There’s no such thing as “the bad old days”

 

what you say, makes sense, but reality is rarely part of our dreams. 

Yeah, and those old Cokes had real cork bottle cap liners!  Dern tootin...

[Vosgar]

Here's a link to a post I did a couple of years ago that shows how inexpensive most bourbon really is today. An inflation calculator can be a real eye opener! 

https://www.straightbourbon.com/community/topic/24642-1952-kentucky-beverage-journal/

 

One thing I will say though, is that the distilleries have spoiled us with some of their basic offerings. When you can buy 10yr whiskey (ex. ER, McKenna, RR) for $25-$35, it can be tough to justify the prices of some other products that are NAS.

[flahute]

37 minutes ago, Vosgar said:

One thing I will say though, is that the distilleries have spoiled us with some of their basic offerings. When you can buy 10yr whiskey (ex. ER, McKenna, RR) for $25-$35, it can be tough to justify the prices of some other products that are NAS.

This.........right...........here.

[lcpfratn]

Here's a link to a post I did a couple of years ago that shows how inexpensive most bourbon really is today. An inflation calculator can be a real eye opener! 
https://www.straightbourbon.com/community/topic/24642-1952-kentucky-beverage-journal/
 
One thing I will say though, is that the distilleries have spoiled us with some of their basic offerings. When you can buy 10yr whiskey (ex. ER, McKenna, RR) for $25-$35, it can be tough to justify the prices of some other products that are NAS.

Thanks for bringing up your older thread Gary. I had somehow previously missed it... great stuff!

[Kepler]

1 hour ago, Vosgar said:

One thing I will say though, is that the distilleries have spoiled us with some of their basic offerings. When you can buy 10yr whiskey (ex. ER, McKenna, RR) for $25-$35, it can be tough to justify the prices of some other products that are NAS.

 

58 minutes ago, flahute said:

This.........right...........here.

 

 

Yeah and don't forget EC 12 year for $29.99.  That one spoiled me forever.  R.I.P. EC12 !!

[Wedelstaedt]

In my local area, the year the age statement went away, I purchased many bottles  of EC12 @ $17.99

 

Boy, I sure miss those golden days 

 

Cheers

[BourbonGuy]

Price have gone up, but not like inflation.  I do have a post here.  I found an old receipt.  From memory I paid $53-ish for a Pappy 10, $19.99-ish for a Weller Antique and $26 for my Elmer T. Lee.   What do they charge for these now?  That was in 2013. 

[FumarOne]

Great input. Another thought came to mind last night. 

How much has the gubmint meddling with the corn subsidies to product ethanol effected the cost to the distillers? I mean what is the main ingredient in bourbon? CORN!

[DCFan]

13 minutes ago, BourbonGuy said:

From memory I paid $53-ish for a Pappy 10, $19.99-ish for a Weller Antique and $26 for my Elmer T. Lee.   What do they charge for these now?  That was in 2013. 

The Va ABC just had a lottery for PVW’s and the 10yo had a $59.99 price which should be MSRP.

[BourbonGuy]

2 hours ago, DCFan said:

The Va ABC just had a lottery for PVW’s and the 10yo had a $59.99 price which should be MSRP.

A well made point.  Sell price vs MSRP.  I guess the MSRP is a non-issue to me if I can't purchase it at that price.  I guess I should revise my statement to say the RETAIL price most of us pay has outpaced inflation.  An assumption on my part, but I read more than a few members saying "I will do less buying and more drinking from the bunker."  If you purchased at the old prices and bunkered, why pay current retail?  I went I wine-searcher.com and the cheapest price I could find was $120 for Elmer T. Lee vs my $26 from 2013

[DCFan]

1 hour ago, BourbonGuy said:

A well made point.  Sell price vs MSRP.  I guess the MSRP is a non-issue to me if I can't purchase it at that price.  I guess I should revise my statement to say the RETAIL price most of us pay has outpaced inflation.  An assumption on my part, but I read more than a few members saying "I will do less buying and more drinking from the bunker."  If you purchased at the old prices and bunkered, why pay current retail?  I went I wine-searcher.com and the cheapest price I could find was $120 for Elmer T. Lee vs my $26 from 2013

Sell, MSRP it didn't really matter since Va only had 414 bottles of the 10 yo in their lottery this year and there were 17,982 entries.  Extremely limited supply meets extremely high demand. Paying MSRP under those conditions one should consider ones self lucky.  

[ebo]

23 hours ago, FumarOne said:

Just a question to the consortium.

Do you really think that the prices we are paying for low to mid quality bourbons are out of control?

I come from the food side of manufacturing and I have witnessed the substantial increase of all raw materials, labor and transportation. So why is it that we still want to pay sub $30's to $50 for a quality product that we previously bought for $20 to $30? Tell me what good you have purchased in the last 20 yrs. that has not gone up in price?

How much have your property taxes, utilities, etc. that haven't increased substantially?

I'm not condoning the inflated secondary or LE's with inflated profits, but I don't have a problem with the current pricing. Maybe it's just me!

I suppose one's income would dictate what he/she finds to be "out of control".

 

I stopped buying Scotch years ago because it is just too expensive for me. Bourbon is slowly creeping to that point.

 

Yes, everything does and has gone up in price, and will continue to do so. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if wages also went up, but......................

[kevinbrink]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:44 PM, BourbonGuy said:

A well made point.  Sell price vs MSRP.  I guess the MSRP is a non-issue to me if I can't purchase it at that price.  I guess I should revise my statement to say the RETAIL price most of us pay has outpaced inflation.  An assumption on my part, but I read more than a few members saying "I will do less buying and more drinking from the bunker."  If you purchased at the old prices and bunkered, why pay current retail?  I went I wine-searcher.com and the cheapest price I could find was $120 for Elmer T. Lee vs my $26 from 2013

I paid $39.99 for ETL last year, not sure if that is MSRP or not but for hard to get bottles Winesearcher isn't a great judge of price since most stores that show availability are on the high end of even gouging hence even having it still on the "shelf" to sell.

[The Black Tot]

I don't think the distilleries "spoiled us" with cheap bourbon.

 

They couldn't get more for it at the time. That was where the market was.

 

They weren't doing us a favor. Bottles sat on the shelf even at low prices.

 

It was a buyer's market. Now it's a seller's market. But it will be a buyer's market again. Nothing stays on top forever.

[Bob_Loblaw]

On 3/18/2019 at 9:03 AM, kevinbrink said:

I paid $39.99 for ETL last year, not sure if that is MSRP or not but for hard to get bottles Winesearcher isn't a great judge of price since most stores that show availability are on the high end of even gouging hence even having it still on the "shelf" to sell.

I think that is pretty close for ETL.  I know I paid $35 awhile back, but it may have increased to $40 by last year.  It's been awhile since I have found a bottle.  

[BigPapa]

I walked out the door today with 3 bottles for 75.00.
Henry McKenna 10 yr BIB
Old Grand Dad 114
Liter Wild Turkey 101
I these three are solid and I would drink them every day if that’s all there was.

[mosugoji64]

I think everyone expects prices to go up incrementally for everything. The problem with American whiskey has been the HUGE jump in prices in a short period of time. Many of us have been unhappy about that, but it seems that most have accepted it as the new reality. There's a whole lot more people in this boat and it's taking time to get a bigger boat. Until that happens, it's going to be uncomfortable for a while. While the ship may be visible on the horizon, right now still sucks. There's also the harsh realization that, while things may get better, the days of $20 7-year Weller and $35 EC18 are NEVER coming back. It's a hard pill to swallow but ranting and pounding our fists won't do anything to change things. It is what it is. We have choices for our hobbies, and we've chosen to stay here!

[EarthQuake]

Relative to 5 or 10 years ago prices on a lot of stuff have increased significantly, sure. That said though, prices are still at a range where many of us buy way more whiskey than we drink (and I think a number of people on this board own more booze than they could ever reasonably consume), so clearly pricing isn't at a point where it gets in the way of enjoying the hobby. In that sense, and from a pure economic standpoint, I would say that overall, prices are not objectively high, prices are low enough on most things I enjoy to tempt me to buy more of it than I actually need, which is why I have about 50 bottles of bourbon open right now. I would argue that while there have been price hikes, it was because prices were unreasonably low due to an unforeseen lack of general demand, and now we've seen a market correction to put things back closer to a reasonable level. In 10 years when the big distiller's expanded stock comes on line we'll probably see another correction in the other direction.

 

Certainly there are some outliers for high pricing (Peerless Rye etc), but there are some on the other end as well, like Ancient Age for $13 (better than 99% of the craft stuff on the market). Of course I can't walk into a store and buy a bottle of Pappy or GTS - but honestly, who cares, there is stuff on the shelves all day (or which can be had with a little bit of effort) that is as enjoyable. I would rather have a bottle of Eagle Rare than anything from Weller, so I won't mourn the lack of availability or price increases for that brand. And that's the thing really, we can point to a few brands that got more popular than they ever ought to have, but there's still 10 bottles of great stuff on the shelf for every one of those.

Edited March 19, 2019 by EarthQuake

[Jfletchgu]

1 hour ago, EarthQuake said:

Relative to 5 or 10 years ago prices on a lot of stuff have increased significantly, sure. That said though, prices are still at a range where many of us buy way more whiskey than we drink (and I think a number of people on this board own more booze than they could ever reasonably consume), so clearly pricing isn't at a point where it gets in the way of enjoying the hobby. In that sense, and from a pure economic standpoint, I would say that overall, prices are not objectively high, prices are low enough on most things I enjoy to tempt me to buy more of it than I actually need, which is why I have about 50 bottles of bourbon open right now. I would argue that while there have been price hikes, it was because prices were unreasonably low due to an unforeseen lack of general demand, and now we've seen a market correction to put things back closer to a reasonable level. In 10 years when the big distiller's expanded stock comes on line we'll probably see another correction in the other direction.

 

Certainly there are some outliers for high pricing (Peerless Rye etc), but there are some on the other end as well, like Ancient Age for $13 (better than 99% of the craft stuff on the market). Of course I can't walk into a store and buy a bottle of Pappy or GTS - but honestly, who cares, there is stuff on the shelves all day (or which can be had with a little bit of effort) that is as enjoyable. I would rather have a bottle of Eagle Rare than anything from Weller, so I won't mourn the lack of availability or price increases for that brand. And that's the thing really, we can point to a few brands that got more popular than they ever ought to have, but there's still 10 bottles of great stuff on the shelf for every one of those.

It would appear you have reached the mountain top of bourbon zen my friend, and I’m not far behind you. I find myself reaching for WT101 and OGDBIB more and more often (and enjoying every minute of it) then my “good stuff” that I had to claw and scrape to find.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Jfletchgu