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Baker's 13 Year Single Barrel Bourbon

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HoustonNit
This should be on a different post, but thought I would bring it up. I saw an e-mail from a distributor that said KC 120 SB is going to have a $15 to $20 increase by the end of this year.   


Nice knowing you KC, it’s been a fun run.
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flahute
2 hours ago, LCWoody said:

I have done 4 barrel picks of KC this year, and have noticed that all the samples are 10 to 11y's old. No more 14y samples, now I know why?  

Possible, but I've also been hearing that those older barrels of KC are mostly tapped out. Can't say for sure though.

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mbroo5880i
Posted (edited)

I notice a few local retailers have had recent KCSB store picks 14+ years.  I was surprised since I thought most had already been used up.  

 

Regarding the price increase, I noticed the regular KCSB 120 jumped from $29,99 to $36.99 a few years ago.  It can be occasionally found for $39.99 but normally runs in the mid-$40s now.  I have even seen it for $49.99 in some of the larger chain stores.   I can still find Baker's in the low to mid-$40s so if the price jumps too much I will opt for Baker's until its price jumps.  I can occasionally find Booker's in the upper $60s on sale but it is generally closer to $80.  Beam is really starting to price me out of KC, Baker's and Booker's.  

Edited by mbroo5880i
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kevinbrink
21 hours ago, LCWoody said:

This should be on a different post, but thought I would bring it up. I saw an e-mail from a distributor that said KC 120 SB is going to have a $15 to $20 increase by the end of this year.   

People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices.....

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mbroo5880i
11 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices.....

Fair enough.  I am curious how the price increase in Booker's has worked out.  Seriously.  My guess is I won't like the answer.

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kevinbrink
1 minute ago, mbroo5880i said:

Fair enough.  I am curious how the price increase in Booker's has worked out.  Seriously.  My guess is I won't like the answer.

I'll say this, before the price increase I would see releases on the shelf from the last few years, these days I rarely see one from prior to the calendar year. One of the reasons I think has been the batch names, just like the dopey stickers people are putting on their store picks people seem to go after bottle with an associated "Name". I'm kind of surprised that if they were going to raise the price on KC they didn't do it with the new labels, then again they may have changed the packaging to get people to start buying it more raising the price when they had more market demand. No better marketing than all of the well aged store picks on the shelves these days, smart of them to make the specs front and center.

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mbroo5880i
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

I'll say this, before the price increase I would see releases on the shelf from the last few years, these days I rarely see one from prior to the calendar year. One of the reasons I think has been the batch names, just like the dopey stickers people are putting on their store picks people seem to go after bottle with an associated "Name". I'm kind of surprised that if they were going to raise the price on KC they didn't do it with the new labels, then again they may have changed the packaging to get people to start buying it more raising the price when they had more market demand. No better marketing than all of the well aged store picks on the shelves these days, smart of them to make the specs front and center.

Hmmm....either the price increase or the addition of batch names has made it more desirable or they are producing less.  Admittedly, I haven't had any Booker's since last summer and then it was quite stellar.  I am not sure of the batches or age as it was at a bar and my boss was paying.  He said he would match me beer for bourbon.  I opted for Booker's so he won.  😉

 

The only thing stopping me from picking up one of the newer batches is price and availability.  I can still get KCSB and Baker's cheaper and they are easier to find.  But, Booker's has a quality they don't match.

Edited by mbroo5880i
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Spade

In terms of the price increase in KCSB, much more than $50 would be a silly price. But Beam often tends to go from silly low prices to silly high prices so it seems plausible!

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kevinbrink
47 minutes ago, Spade said:

In terms of the price increase in KCSB, much more than $50 would be a silly price. But Beam often tends to go from silly low prices to silly high prices so it seems plausible!

One could argue that there are a number of distilleries that would still not be able to compete with a 9 year age stated 120 proof bourbon at $60, never mind older single barrels, there is certainly EC BP and WT gets close with RR SiB though they are NAS. Not justifying such a price increase just pointing out that people pay more for things that are more silly. 

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Spade
27 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

One could argue that there are a number of distilleries that would still not be able to compete with a 9 year age stated 120 proof bourbon at $60, never mind older single barrels, there is certainly EC BP and WT gets close with RR SiB though they are NAS. Not justifying such a price increase just pointing out that people pay more for things that are more silly. 

I had RRSB in mind actually. I can still get that for just under $50. And 1792 FP is about $40. I think somewhere between $45 and $55 seems reasonable for KCSB. It's the quickness of the prices changes that are silly perhaps — from $35 to possibly more than $50 in just a few years.

 

Beam's prices for the small batch collection were so compressed and a bit incoherent for forever. The (in this case, rumored) big swing in a few years is hard not to notice.

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kevinbrink
18 hours ago, Spade said:

I had RRSB in mind actually. I can still get that for just under $50. And 1792 FP is about $40. I think somewhere between $45 and $55 seems reasonable for KCSB. It's the quickness of the prices changes that are silly perhaps — from $35 to possibly more than $50 in just a few years.

 

Beam's prices for the small batch collection were so compressed and a bit incoherent for forever. The (in this case, rumored) big swing in a few years is hard not to notice.

I personally don't find 1792 FP to be on the same level, the bottles I have had ranged from solid to hot mess, it's also NAS with AFAIK no indication of age. There are a bunch of NAS high proof bottles out there for less and even a couple younger age stated bottles off the top of my head OF 1920, 1792 FP, RR SiB, Ezra BP, OGD 114, Noah's Mill, Makers Cask Strength, Rare Breed, Stagg JR. For my wallet, maybe I'm old fashioned, the age statement still caries weight, with the exception of Ezra BP any of the above could be bottled at 4 years.  

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Spade

I think we're actually in agreement for the most part. I'm just saying that a 35% increase in price is nuts.

Edited by Spade
typo
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miller542

I'm interested, "if the price is right"

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Curtis Reed

Bakers is underrated. 

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EarthQuake
On 6/13/2019 at 7:56 PM, kevinbrink said:

People can only talk about great values for so long before the manufacturer notices.....

Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole:

 

9 year old 120 proof single barrel

13 year 107 proof single barrel

 

If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself.

 

Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point.

 

That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site.

 

Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. 

Edited by EarthQuake
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kevinbrink
7 minutes ago, EarthQuake said:

Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole:

 

9 year old 120 proof single barrel

13 year 107 proof single barrel

 

If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself.

 

Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point.

 

That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site.

 

Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. 

CEHT is a great example of all flash marketing, based on what you know from the actual info on the bottle it is just another BIB bourbon that other distilleries are selling for $15-$25, but yep a tube. 

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EarthQuake
On 6/14/2019 at 5:00 PM, kevinbrink said:

I personally don't find 1792 FP to be on the same level, the bottles I have had ranged from solid to hot mess, it's also NAS with AFAIK no indication of age. There are a bunch of NAS high proof bottles out there for less and even a couple younger age stated bottles off the top of my head OF 1920, 1792 FP, RR SiB, Ezra BP, OGD 114, Noah's Mill, Makers Cask Strength, Rare Breed, Stagg JR. For my wallet, maybe I'm old fashioned, the age statement still caries weight, with the exception of Ezra BP any of the above could be bottled at 4 years.  

 I agree, an age statement carries weight for most buyers. For better or worse a higher age statement is an indicator of quality for most buyers, myself included.

 

That said, I love 1792, at least all the releases I've had so far. I've been through a few bottles of the BIB and I'm nearly finished with this FP (which seams to get better and better) and have a couple bottles of 1792 FP store picks to get to when I kill this bottle. I haven't had enough of the brand to say how variable the quality is, but I'm a fan so far.

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LCWoody
On 6/16/2019 at 6:34 PM, EarthQuake said:

Yeah and really this is what it's all about. I mean there's a few old timers here who pay attention to these things that will be upset. But look at the market as a whole:

 

9 year old 120 proof single barrel

13 year 107 proof single barrel

 

If you turn off the part of your brain that remembers what these products currently cost / what they used to cost, and take into consideration other products currently on the market, how much would you expect these bourbons to sell for? If you say less than $60, you're fooling yourself.

 

Honestly, if Beam has a steady supply of 13+ year old bourbon, and they're pumping it out at $40 a bottle in the KC single barrel program, the people in charge should be fired. The boom is driven by new drinkers who don't have an attachment to these brands at X price point. So if Beam has well aged stock, they should be pushing age statements back out and raising prices, all they're doing is meeting market expectations at this point.

 

That said, of all the major players, Beam has been particularly ham-fisted in the way it approaches this stuff - the big bump in price for Booker's with no age statement increase is a good example. Give us age statements, at a decent proof, and we'll pay for it. We as the whiskey drinking collective, not necessarily the members of this site.

 

Personally, I think changing the specs on existing products is a bit of a mistake for them. If they rolled out a new 13 year, 107 proof age stated product, and didn't call it Baker's, nobody would complain that it costs more than Baker's. This is the sort of thing that BT excels at (Weller Full Proof anyone?) but Beam seams to totally whiff at. The CEHT line is another interesting example, it's basically Buffalo Trace at a bit higher proof and in a fancy tin (really, flavor profile is very similar as are the reported specs), but they get away with selling it for $15 extra, and most people would tell you that CEHT Small Batch is pretty well priced. 

Not trying to be picky but Bookers is age stated. 

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EarthQuake
2 hours ago, LCWoody said:

Not trying to be picky but Bookers is age stated. 

Possibly poorly worded but by "Booker's with no age statement increase" I meant that they did not increase the age statement (ie: put older whiskey into the Booker's line), not that Booker's isn't age stated. If they had bumped it from 6-7 years up to 10+ years, they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much negative press.

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