Jack Daniel's Single Barrel

[Gillman]

I think it may be the yeast because I recall once some Old Charter (when made by UDV) having a similar flavour. It is not at all unpleasant, kind of a mineral note, but not something I would drink regularly. Also, I've found some bottles have it to a greater or lesser extent and I'll buy a couple of bottles at least every year, the No. 8 or 12, to check out how it's tasting.

Gary

[polyamnesia]

...George Dickel is very small volume compared to JD. They distill through only one column still then through a pot still. When they filter, they use bleached wool blankets and charcoal...!

does the WOOL have anything to do with the flavor? i've never heard of that. interesting.

[Jono]

I wonder if "lanolin" enters into the distillate as a fatty ester.....quite an unusual application of wool....unless they use washed / scoured wool free of lanolin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanolin

[nor02lei]

Second, Jack Daniels distills through a column stills and then to filtration through charcoal.

quote]

They run it thru a doubler as well.

Leif

[Gillman]

I don't think the wool has anything to do with it, it would be well-bleached to ensure no taste gets in the whiskey. Also, a 1980's Old Charter 90 proof I had at a gazebo had the same mineral-like note. In my view it must have been a UDV yeast, or some other process peculiar to UDV distillation that explains it. Perhaps I should say, peculiar to UDV distillation in the last 20 years or so since a George Dickel I have from the 70's seems not to disclose that note (it is otherwise quite similar to current Dickel).

Leaching through wool blankets is an old rectification technique and is mentioned in old distilling texts. Chuck Cowdery has pointed out that rough pot still distillations were vaporised into and soaked out of old wool blankets as a field expedient by some 'shiners. So the practice is probably originally an artisan/empirical one and later was adopted by some commercial distillers. It is intended to filter out some fusel oils.

Gary

[Dramiel McHinson]

Second, Jack Daniels distills through a column stills and then to filtration through charcoal.

quote]

They run it thru a doubler as well.

Leif

I've visited JD a few times and just didn't remember if they mentioned that they ran the alcohol through a doubler or not. It makes sense. I do know that George Dickel uses a pot still as a doubler. The column stills and pot stills possibly add different effects on the alcohol. I am inclined to agree that the yeast is probably the source of the vitamen taste. The Barrel Select from GD that I tried didn't have it so that adds a little mystery to the source of the presence of that vitamen note.

[Dramiel McHinson]

I don't think the wool has anything to do with it,

Leaching through wool blankets is an old rectification technique and is mentioned in old distilling texts. It is intended to filter out some fusel oils.

Gary

As a side note to the use of wool. The distillery explained that the use of wool blankets and perforated stainless separaters in the charcoal kept the whisky from tunneling through the charcoal too quickly and aided in dispersion as well as helping mitigate some of the fusel oils mention by Gary. This was additional to what was explained by Jack Daniels as their technique.

I am certainly no expert, but, as I understand it, the more congeners removed the closer you get to a purer alcohol with neutral taste. The barrel always makes the biggest contribution to taste but what goes in the barrel carries with it certain flavors that will evolve in the barrel. If certain congeners are left in the spirit and noted as a desirable profile of the spirit then the whole process becomes critical to maintaining that profile.

Noting the differences in process and mashbill, I think Geroge Dickel would still taste different from Jack Daniels even if they used the same commercial strain of yeast. So my question is...would the vitamen taste remain if the yeast was the same? And for Jack Daniels, is there a tweak in their process that gives a higher probablilty that bananas will make it to the bottle?

I'm going to stop now because if I think too hard about it I could blow an O'ring.:bigeyes:

[Gillman]

Interesting observations and of course there are so many factors that can affect palate. As was mentioned earlier, Dickel also chills its maple charcoal vats and I understand this is done because it is felt they get a white dog such as they would get in the winter which is felt better than one coming through the charcoal stack at a non-winter temperature.

I guess one will never know for sure how this element of the taste is imparted (or from where it comes might put it better), but at least this generation's George Dickel does seem to have an element of mineral-like taste (or vitamin, earthy, call it what you will), just as Jack has the estery banana-like note.

Personally I think in each case it's the yeast. Assuming that is so, would Dickel taste as it does if put through Jack Daniel's fermenters and stills and aged in its warehouses? I don't know.

Gary

[cowdery]

While Dickel and Daniel's undoubtedly use different yeasts, and their mash bills differ slightly although both have extremely high corn content, the primary difference is with the Lincoln County Process itself. JD goes through about ten feet of charcoal and the spirit is at ambient temperature. The charcoal vats at Dickel are only about three feet deep and the spirit is chilled first.

[Lost Pollito]

Also, I thought, JD had a drip line that let the whisky go straight through the charcoal, and GD actually filled the vat of Charcoal with the whiskey, then let it drip out.

[Martian]

I read here (http://www.spiritsreview.com/reviews-whisky-tennessee-dickel-12.html) that Dickel is 84% corn, 8% rye, and 8% barley.

[polyamnesia]

I read here (http://www.spiritsreview.com/reviews-whisky-tennessee-dickel-12.html) that Dickel is 84% corn, 8% rye, and 8% barley.

yep, one can tell there is barely a sense of rye in dickel...what's JDs mashbill?

[cowdery]

yep, one can tell there is barely a sense of rye in dickel...what's JDs mashbill?

Virtually the same.

[funknik]

Virtually the same.

Still, I imagine I can taste rye (and the barrel) in JD, whereas the Dickel No12, which is a regular pour of mine, seems completely devoid of any rye or wood flavor, except for maple sugar.