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wripvanwrinkle
07-06-2011, 20:01
Recently, I have been intrigued as to whether or not lead glazed whiskey decanters contaminate their contents. As these discussions have been mixed throughout a number of threads, I thought that I would consolidate them all here.

My interest began with the purchase of a Wild Turkey Lore decanter from 1980. The 8 year old 101 proof contents were absolutely amazing. With this one purchase my Wild Turkey preference shot from "admirer" to "fan boy". I had heard rumors of lead leaching into the spirit from the decanter's glazing, but as a natural skeptic I dismissed the thought.

But then I read a post here that stated that a Wild Turkey tour guide had warned against the consumption of alcohol from early decanters for this very reason. Was this a valid warning? Or fodder for the "Things that tour guides say" thread? I visited a couple of web pages and found the lead contamination dangers for alcohol stored within a lead glazed container. In brief, if the glaze was compromised then there appeared to be a valid risk of contamination. (By the way, I also learned that eating spoonfuls of lead glaze is a very bad idea...but who would have thought?)

I went out and bought a few lead test kits designed to test water. Unfortunately, they were all inconclusive. The mechanical mechanisms on these kits assume a water substrate...and it appeared as if the alcohol was preventing them from working.

wripvanwrinkle
07-06-2011, 20:06
Time went by. I purchased a bunch of 1970's Wild Turkey "Series 1" decanters at a very good price. They all decanted well, the contents were very good, but the question remained...were they safe to drink?

I started researching "mail in" water test kits. While doing so I found Pro-Labs. Their kits are available at Home Depot for about $5, and consist of a vial and a mailer. For a $30 lab fee, they use an atomic absorption spectrometer to detect lead levels as low as 1 part per million. Surely these were my guys!

I started to have my doubts when filling out the paper work. The forms asked questions like "what kind of faucet do you own?". I wondered whether or not they would actually perform the test... Ultimately, my curiosity got the best of me and I dropped the sample in the mail. On the form I simply wrote "Alcohol Solution, 50-60%". Before sealing the envelope I added "WT101 1973.". That might just be cryptic enough to get someone's attention.

wripvanwrinkle
07-06-2011, 20:08
Today my phone rings. The voice on the other end said that they were calling from Pro-Lab in Florida. My Negative Nancy imagination started to spin the inevitable rejection story regarding dangers to their testing equipment and missing technical procedures for handling my material of choice.

Instead he continued with: "Eric, today I received your sample and don't know if I should test it or drink it". Suddenly, this was sounding promising. He asked me to explain what I was looking for. I gladly shared my story and he seemed amused.

It turned out that he had his "Chief Scientist" on speaker phone with him. The Chief Scientist shared a very interesting opinion. I had to follow up his statements with web research...so I'm probably getting this a little wrong. He said that he would call back with the results, so I will double check this understanding with him then.

In brief, he expressed doubt that Bourbon could leach the lead from the glaze. The thought was that the Bourbon was not acidic enough to do the job. There might be danger with a lower PH acid...like citrus or vinegar. He went on to say that other substances might change that, the biggest suspect being Tannin. Apparently Tannin is very effective in wrenching metal out of it's container. Although a high PH acid like alcohol should not leach the lead from the glaze, a high concentration of Tannin might.

The Tannin content in wine is very high from the grapes. Apparently these Tannins evaporate with the alcohol during distillation, and also exist in the final spirit (Brandy/Cognac). From his perspective; while a grape based spirit might leach the lead from the glaze, a grain based spirit should be fine.

So how much Tannin was extracted from 8 years of interaction with alligator char? To me this is an interesting question.

I am very hopeful that they will call with the results tomorrow.

Enoch
07-06-2011, 20:38
I can't wait to hear the results. I know a place with many decanters but have not bought any for this very concern.

Bourbon Boiler
07-06-2011, 20:39
Keep us posted of the results. As an engineer, I'd love to get a copy of the lab report if you don't mind.

wripvanwrinkle
07-06-2011, 20:42
Keep us posted of the results. As an engineer, I'd love to get a copy of the lab report if you don't mind.

I would be happy to post it. I was very excited to receive their phone call. So often when faced with an unusual request, it seems corporate nature to simply trash it.

emr454
07-06-2011, 20:50
This is encouraging news for everyone here, I feel.

I've had some whiskey from ceramic decanters before and never thought twice about the glazing.

Eric

AaronWF
07-06-2011, 21:24
I'm staring at two old Beam decanters from the 70's. To drink, or not to drink. Thanks for sharing your research!

BradleyC
07-06-2011, 21:45
I never put a lot of thought into the lead, I always thought evaporation on decanters was worse than with glass. Many that I have picked up seemed a little low from gently shaking them. This and being Beam has typically steered me away from them. I did however pick up a few Michter's ceramics and drank some of those. I'm still here. Whether or not lead negatively impacted me is debatable.

Eric: I know you put all of those into glass bottles. Can you give an estimate of the percentage lost to evaporation for the average of all of them?

wripvanwrinkle
07-06-2011, 22:19
I never put a lot of thought into the lead, I always thought evaporation on decanters was worse than with glass. Many that I have picked up seemed a little low from gently shaking them. This and being Beam has typically steered me away from them. I did however pick up a few Michter's ceramics and drank some of those. I'm still here. Whether or not lead negatively impacted me is debatable.

Eric: I know you put all of those into glass bottles. Can you give an estimate of the percentage lost to evaporation for the average of all of them?

For those decanters that were sealed with an intact cork, evaporation was negligible. If the cork was broken but dry, there was maybe 5-10% loss. if the broken cork was wet, the loss was significant (50%)

Environment must play a significant effect. My father in law just gave me an Ezra Brooks decanter from 1968. The cork was intact, but the loss was about 33%. The decanter had spent most of it's life in Arizona.

As far as determining loss, I think that shaking is a bad indicator of evaporation. The decanters are usually designed to store much more than the 4/5 quart stated contents...so they almost alway sound half empty.

In general decanters are probably not the best buy, but they are kind of fun.

Personally, I perceive no real danger of lead poisoning...for me it is more about the nerdy and foolish quest for approximated reality.

Special Reserve
07-07-2011, 03:36
As a chemist, I'm very interested in the result. Please post when available.

Thanks.

Will

MarkEdwards
07-07-2011, 04:42
Keep us posted of the results. As an engineer, I'd love to get a copy of the lab report if you don't mind.


As a chemist, I'm very interested in the result. Please post when available.

As a nerd, in general, I'd love to see the results. :cool:

Young Blacksmith
07-07-2011, 14:28
Very interesting story, will be following this one! Gotta love those intrigued scientists in the lab too.

LikeItWasSodaPop
07-07-2011, 15:32
I use Pro Lab for mold and lead based paint tests in my work, and I've been happy with them. Glad they are helping out with this as I have some 1980s WT 8 101 I hope will only damage my liver and not my brain.

Special Reserve
07-07-2011, 16:01
Very interesting story, will be following this one! Gotta love those intrigued scientists in the lab too.

I'll acknowledge excitement when something different comes into the lab. Unfortunately it does not happen often these days.

ethangsmith
07-08-2011, 16:05
I know people that have drank from many Michter's decanters over the years and while most of them are in very good health for their age, most of them are also quite unique characters. Hmmmmm.

sailor22
07-08-2011, 16:46
I have deen brinking from decanters for years and I have yet to notice any dane bramage.

Bourbon Boiler
07-22-2011, 18:10
Not trying to be pushy, just bumping to see if anything has been determined yet.

hectic1
07-22-2011, 19:50
I guess they followed through on their joke and drank the sample vs testing it...can't blame them though! :)

wripvanwrinkle
07-22-2011, 21:12
No response yet...patiently waiting...

(Tap. Tap. Tap.)

Bourbon Boiler
07-23-2011, 10:14
I guess they followed through on their joke and drank the sample vs testing it...can't blame them though! :)

If he gets tasting notes instead of a lab report, that might be funny enough to justify the exercise. :lol:

wripvanwrinkle
07-25-2011, 14:20
Update: I called today and they informed me that they required the rest of the bottle, a Glencairn, and a cigar to complete the analysis. I assume that this is standard lab protocol?

Real Update: Although the person that I spoke with couldn't say why, my sample was forwarded to another lab. The expectation is that the results will be available by the end of the week.

Real Update Conspiracy Speculation: Special Reserve used his Brotherhood of the Laboratory connections to hijack my sample. Shame on you SR!!! :hot:

Special Reserve
07-25-2011, 16:56
Update: I called today and they informed me that they required the rest of the bottle, a Glencairn, and a cigar to complete the analysis. I assume that this is standard lab protocol?

Real Update: Although the person that I spoke with couldn't say why, my sample was forwarded to another lab. The expectation is that the results will be available by the end of the week.

Real Update Conspiracy Speculation: Special Reserve used his Brotherhood of the Laboratory connections to hijack my sample. Shame on you SR!!! :hot:

Man you're on to me!

I'm very interested in the report. This is way out of my field but I'm interested knowing what is said.

My guess is that there is no lead or very low level of lead in the bourbon sample.

Lead analysis is whole blood is a bit tricky and requires specialized equipment and contamination from the blood container is always considered when an elevated level is encountered. Preferably clinical samples should be collected in a special acid washed tube but most are not.

I have no idea how it would be measured in alcohol it may be easier. Also of concern is the level of detection.

Bourbon Boiler
07-25-2011, 17:00
Update: I called today and they informed me that they required the rest of the bottle, a Glencairn, and a cigar to complete the analysis. I assume that this is standard lab protocol?
:hot:


They should have their own glassware to accomodate both nosing and tasting. The cigar and bottle sound reasonable.

Special Reserve
07-25-2011, 17:02
They should have their own glassware to accomodate both nosing and tasting. The cigar and bottle sound reasonable.

Today, in my lab, there is very little glassware. 40 years ago I would never have imagined this.

Will

wripvanwrinkle
08-02-2011, 15:40
First of all, many thanks to the guys at Pro-Lab. They were informative and fun to work with. I really appreciate their willingness to facilitate my odd request.

Today they were kind enough to give me a call, and the results were surprising. In fact, the results were so surprising that they ran the test 3 times to confirm.

In summary, the lead content within my sample was nearly 1,000 times higher than the acceptable limit in water. For example; while the acceptable lead limit in water is 14.9 parts per billion (ppb) the content of my sample was 14,700 ppb.

In effect, 15 versus 14,700.

I'm trying to get my head around what this means, but I'm struggling to put together a relative comparison.

But to answer my original question, (unless the Austin Nichol distillery was built with lead piping, lead mashtuns, and lead stills)...that yes...there is a profound leaching of lead from the lead glazing of ceramic decanters into the content whiskey.

StraightNoChaser
08-02-2011, 16:00
Wow. So glad you finally got the results and thank you for sharing. I wonder if the lead could somehow be filtered out without ruining the whiskey.

Time to call Magneto

wripvanwrinkle
08-02-2011, 16:04
Wow. So glad you finally got the results and thank you for sharing. I wonder if the lead could somehow be filtered out without ruining the whiskey.

Time to call Magneto

Well damn my curiosity. Now I need to shell out for a Brita filter and another lab test.

Special Reserve
08-02-2011, 17:18
I don't know why I didn't think of this until now but you should have included a control sample or the lab should have asked for one.

It would be very interesting to see how much lead a WT sample from a regular bottle contained.

I'm shocked at the amount of lead present and now must reconsider drinking a ceramic container that I have.

Yikes!

Gillman
08-02-2011, 17:51
Hmmm. Done some tasting over the years from dusty ceramic containers including a favoured coffee cup. Still standing, I think. :) I would think a few sips here and there over 10 years or so should have no effect, still, something to think about I guess.

Gary

Bourbon Boiler
08-02-2011, 18:22
Interesting. The next question is what is the ppb difference between "unacceptable" and "dangerous". I would think that water in one's home needs to have a very low level as people would drink from it an bathe in it daily. Drinking at that same level from one decanter probably isn't a big deal.

I say that, but I'm not volunteering either.

Bourbon Boiler
08-02-2011, 18:22
BTW, thanks for sharing these results. I've enjoyed following this thread.

Gillman
08-02-2011, 19:15
Do all glazed ceramic containers, including e.g. those used to serve food, or coffee cups, use lead in the manufacture? Or is this something more in the past than today?

Gary

Young Blacksmith
08-02-2011, 20:45
Wow, that blows my semi-safe theory out of the water. Knowing that I'd either pour it down the drain or just leave it for the angels.

Enoch
08-02-2011, 20:51
Do all glazed ceramic containers, including e.g. those used to serve food, or coffee cups, use lead in the manufacture? Or is this something more in the past than today?

Gary

According to a friend of mine who has a pottery shop, lead was fazed out during the 90s.

MarkEdwards
08-03-2011, 04:32
Wow, that blows my semi-safe theory out of the water. Knowing that I'd either pour it down the drain or just leave it for the angels.

I can hear the Tom Lehrer song now: "Poisoning Angels in the Park." :cool:

Enoch
08-03-2011, 06:23
"Lead burns red and makes you dead."

An old saying when testing the amount of lead in moonshine. My grandfather used to test it by putting a small amount in a spoon and lighting it. If the flame was red it had too much lead.

Wonder if this works with decanter whiskey.

nivto
08-03-2011, 14:43
hmmm... so old 60's and 70's Old Fitz porcelain decanters? should those be included in the hazardous to your health list? I just got my hands on some '68 BiB that tastes fantastic, and I'd hate to be scared away from drinking it due to contamination...

by the way - thank you very much for taking the time and effort to find out about this and for sharing the results.

StraightNoChaser
08-03-2011, 15:20
Well damn my curiosity. Now I need to shell out for a Brita filter and another lab test.
I'd opt for an earth magnet before a filter

ethangsmith
08-04-2011, 18:52
I guess I should stop drinking out of all my old Michter's decanters. Maybe that's what making me more stupid.

hectic1
08-05-2011, 14:00
Eric is it possible to PDF the report that they gave you?

tmckenzie
08-06-2011, 15:05
When did lead solder go out of fashion? I would like to see a test of bottled bourbon from the same era. I do know solder is used in distilleries.

sutton
08-07-2011, 05:01
When did lead solder go out of fashion? I would like to see a test of bottled bourbon from the same era. I do know solder is used in distilleries.

I don't believe the issue is lead solder, but rather lead flux that was used in glazing of ceramics (like decanters). I think the use of lead flux for glazing ended in the 70's, but I don't know for sure - perhaps earlier. I'll do some looking.

The transition from lead solders to lead-free I believe is still occurring, but that began much later (at least in the surface-mount technology industry) - it began sometime in the mid- to late-90's if I remember correctly, and the EU has requirements on when you needed to be lead-free (don't remember specifics).

Enoch
08-07-2011, 05:42
I don't believe the issue is lead solder, but rather lead flux that was used in glazing of ceramics (like decanters). I think the use of lead flux for glazing ended in the 70's, but I don't know for sure - perhaps earlier. I'll do some looking.

The transition from lead solders to lead-free I believe is still occurring, but that began much later (at least in the surface-mount technology industry) - it began sometime in the mid- to late-90's if I remember correctly, and the EU has requirements on when you needed to be lead-free (don't remember specifics).

As far as I can determine the first regulation was 1986 in California. Federal regulation didn't occur until the 2000s. The owner of the Mad Platter (a local ceramic shop) said it was used until the 1990s. Finally the tour guide at Wild Turkey told me they were discontinued there in the 80s because of the lead but lead was used up until the end.

Lead solder was a problem with moon shine because they often used car radiators which have a lot of solder.

Special Reserve
08-07-2011, 07:09
OF BiB ca. 1988 and WLW 117.9.

Very favorable comparison with WLW being a little fuller and hotter with the OF BiB being sweeter.

Both are fantastic!

macdeffe
08-07-2011, 09:48
Very informative thread. I studied chemistry as well, so I find these details interesting

Luckily ?! I never really been drinking whisky from decanter's

How would you reckon the lead to be damaging in these amounts?

Also given the fact that you aren't consuming this probably, but more likely to be sampling it ?

Steffen

sutton
08-07-2011, 19:20
How would you reckon the lead to be damaging in these amounts?

Also given the fact that you aren't consuming this probably, but more likely to be sampling it ?

Steffen

I've been doing some reading about this on the 'net - there is some conflicting information, but from what I read it seems that lead is not good in any quantity - the body has a tough time getting rid of it. It seems that chronic exposure is probably worse than a one-time exposure, as lead accumulates in the soft tissue and bones, which acts as a sort of reservoir to replenish lead levels in the blood stream.

The body does get rid of it when in the bloodstream, again, some conflicting info, but it seems that the half-life is somewhere between 25 and 40 days. Then again, other information said that the body can't really rid itself of lead ...

I'm sure the levels are variable as well in each decanter - some probably have low levels, others probably higher than the one tested here.

sutton
08-07-2011, 19:32
Here's some additional information from the Mass. State Labor and Workforce Development web-site:

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=elwdterminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Workers+and+Unions&L2=Licensing+and+Certification&L3=Occupational+Lead+Poisoning+Registry&sid=Elwd&b=terminalcontent&f=dos_leaddocs_lead_healthhaz&csid=Elwd


What Happens to Lead in the Body?

Once lead gets into the body, it is not used in any way to benefit the body. It is absorbed and distributed throughout the body. The amount the body absorbs depends on the route of exposure. In general, an adult will absorb 10-15% of the lead in the digestive system, while children and pregnant women can absorb up to 50%. People will absorb more lead if they are fasting or if their diet is lacking in iron or calcium.

When lead is inhaled, about 30%-50% of the particles will reach the lungs, depending on the size of the particle. Large particles land in the upper respiratory tract, where they get trapped by the mucous lining and moved out by hair-like objects (called cilia). Unfortunately, the mucous is often swallowed, allowing these large particles to then go into the digestive system.

Smaller particles can reach deeper in the lungs and from there be absorbed into the bloodstream. This means that when there is burning or welding on lead-painted surfaces, the lead fumes can be especially dangerous. The small particles created as a fume will reach the blood if they are inhaled.

Once lead is in the blood, some of it moves into soft tissues (organs such as the brain and kidneys). The total amount of lead that is stored in the body is called the "body burden". In adults, bones and teeth contain about 95% of the body burden. Lead that is stored in the bones can leave them and enter the blood and then the soft tissue. This can damage the organs or the blood's ability to make red blood cells. This trend may increase during pregnancy, breast-feeding and osteoporosis (the process of weakening of the skeleton in old age). It can also happen when lead is removed from the blood through medical treatment (called chelation).

How Long Does Lead Stay in the Body?

Lead stays in the body for different periods of time, depending on where it is. Half of the lead in the blood will be excreted in 25 days (this is called the "half-life"). In soft tissues, it takes 40 days for half of the lead to be excreted. In bones and teeth it takes much longer, up to 10 years or longer.

Since lead is stored in the body, a person can get poisoned from exposure to just small amounts of lead over a long period of time (called chronic exposure). You do not need to get exposed to just large doses of lead to be poisoned (called acute exposure). It can take months or years for the body to get rid of lead. A person will continue to be exposed to lead internally even after the actual exposure to lead stops

AaronWF
08-11-2011, 17:51
Well, ignorance is bliss eh? I have a few Beam decanters from the late 60's through the 70's... I suppose that they are not safe to drink if I'm convinced that taking 1000 times the acceptable limit of lead is bad for me. Then again, just about everything we ingest on a daily basis has something in it that's bad for you. Is lead worse? Clearly, there are plenty of people on this board who've downed much more lead-tainted bourbon than I have, and you all are still kicking.

Thanks, wrip, for your reporting. Or should I say damn you! :grin:

Any MDs that could chime in on this subject would be most appreciated!

Enoch
08-11-2011, 18:37
My question: I stopped in a small liquor store a couple of months ago and they had a bunch of Evan Williams Commemorative Earthstone Jugs cheap ($10). I bought several thinking at least they could be used as gifts. Now I wonder if they are safe. Don't really want to do my family in!

sailor22
08-11-2011, 20:54
Just a little digging on the net turned up these randomly quoted nuggets - nasty stuff for sure. The question is how much damage drinking a decanter or two of contaminated Bourbon will do. Apparently there isn't a clear cut answer.


Behavioral Symptoms of Lead Poisoning In Adults
- Irritability
- Unexplained changes in mood or personality
- Changes in sleep patterns
- Inability to concentrate
- Memory loss

Symptoms
Initially, lead poisoning can be hard to detect — even people who seem healthy can have high blood levels of lead. Signs and symptoms usually don't appear until dangerous amounts have accumulated.

Signs and symptoms in adults may include:
High blood pressure
Declines in mental functioning
Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
Muscular weakness
Headache
Abdominal pain
Memory loss
Mood disorders
Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm
Miscarriage or premature birth in pregnant women

Other sources of lead exposure
Lead can also sometimes be found in:

Soil. Lead particles that settle on the soil from leaded gasoline or paint can last for years. Lead-contaminated soil is still a major problem around highways and in some urban settings.
Household dust. Household dust can contain lead from lead paint chips or from contaminated soil brought in from outside.
Pottery. Glazes found on some ceramics, china and porcelain can contain lead that may leach into food.
Toys. Lead is sometimes found in toys and other products produced abroad.
Traditional cosmetics. Kohl is a traditional cosmetic, often used as eyeliner. Testing of various samples of kohl has revealed high levels of lead.

Exposure to even low levels of lead can cause damage over time, especially in children. The greatest risk is to brain development, where irreversible damage may occur. Higher levels can damage the kidneys and nervous system in both children and adults. Very high lead levels may cause seizures, unconsciousness and possibly death.

Don't store wine, spirits, or vinegar-based salad dressings in lead crystal decanters for long periods of time, because lead can get into the liquid.

MarkEdwards
08-12-2011, 04:30
Just a little digging on the net turned up these randomly quoted nuggets - nasty stuff for sure. The question is how much damage drinking a decanter or two of contaminated Bourbon will do. Apparently there isn't a clear cut answer.


Behavioral Symptoms of Lead Poisoning In Adults
- Irritability
- Unexplained changes in mood or personality
- Changes in sleep patterns
- Inability to concentrate
- Memory loss


So... crotchety people might be that way because of lead poisoning? Hmmm. :cool:

BradleyC
08-12-2011, 12:23
********UPDATE FROM WRIPVANWRIKLE*********

****************************************



Hi All,

A lot of good questions have been asked. I have been itching to respond. Unfortunately, I changed my SB.com email address a couple of weeks ago. Although my account has been re-activated, it appears that I don’t privileges to access/post within most of the forums… If possible, would a Mod please help? Many thanks to BradleyC for posting this comment for me.

So, what is the impact from drinking lead contaminated whiskey? As the posts above indicate, lead stays within the body for an extended period of time. Half of the lead found in the blood supply will leave the body within 25 days [1]. In another 25 days another half will leave. In this manner, the lead will accumulate. If at any given time there is “too much” lead within the blood, then there are harmful effects.

The question then is “How much is too much?” I’ll warn you now that this is about to get a little geeky.

Apparently, “too much” is 10 micrograms of lead within 1 deciliter of blood (10 ug/dL). [2/3]

Knowing this, we need to figure out how much lead is in any given dram. To figure that out we need to understand how much lead is resident within a 14,700 ppb solution of alcohol.

Apparently, ppb can be estimated in terms of weight. 1 ppb of contaminate within water is approximately equal to 1 mg/L. I’m going to assume that this conversion for water approximates the conversion for alcohol [5]. Therefore, the conversion for my 14,700 ppb solution of Lead (Pb) to milligrams per liter (mg/L) would look like:

14,700 gm Pb / 10^9 gm H20 * 1000 gm H20 / 1 L H20 = 14.7 mg/L

Fortunately, I don’t drink a liter of Bourbon in one sitting. My drams tend to be 50 milliliters (mL) “tall”. Additionally all that lead is diluted throughout my blood supply (a grown adult has 5-6 liters of blood [6].) So, how does a single dram impact my blood supply? The calculation follows:

14.6 mg / L bourbon * 50 mL bourbon / dram * 1 dram / 60 dL blood = 12.2 ug/dL

Uh-oh. The EPA says that 10.0 ug/dL is harmful, while a single dram has raised me to 12.2 ug/dL. Want a second dram?

Fortunately, not all is lost. Sutton points out above that only 10-15% of dietary lead is absorbed in a non-pregnant adult. [7] (If you are drinking lead contaminated whiskey while pregnant, then shame on you.) Taking the 15% absorption rate into account, then each dram adds another 1.83 ug/dL to my blood supply.

Don’t be too relieved though. Remember that lead will stay in the body for 25 days (even then, only half of it will exit). At 1.83 ug/dL per drink, the lead within my blood will reach “harmful” levels in 6 drinks. If I kill a 750 mL decanter over 15 days (1 dram a day) than my lead level would be 27.45 ug/dL. Not a happy thought (almost 3X past the “harmful” level.)

Obviously there are a lot more factors to be considered in order to accurately predict the effects of drinking from a lead-glazed decanter. Also the correlation between lead blood levels and harmful effects should be evaluated. Personally though I am convinced: drinking alcohol that has been sitting for 40 years within a lead glazed decanter is a really bad idea.

Wripvanwrinkle (Eric)

REFERENCES
[1]: http://manbir-online.com/diseases/lead.htm
[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_lead_level
[3]: http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/index.cfm
[4]: http://www.smarte.org/smarte/dynamic/resource/sn-units-of-measure.xml.pdf]
[6]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood
[7]: http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=elwdterminal&L=4&L0=Home&L1=Workers+and+Unions&L2=Licensing+and+Certification&L3=Occupational+Lead+Poisoning+Registry&sid=Elwd&b=terminalcontent&f=dos_leaddocs_lead_healthhaz&csid=Elwd
NOTES
[5]: Apparently, since alcohol is less dense than water that the conversion should be about 10% less. I’m going to ignore this difference here.

Bourbon Boiler
08-12-2011, 18:25
The other key conclusion would be that if you haven't seen any effects of lead at this point, and you aren't consuming any more through whiskey, toys, cosmetics, dust, etc., you aren't likely to develop any.

Beer&Bourbon
02-17-2012, 11:31
Well damn. I'd never thought about this before (and somehow missed this thread). I have 6 Beam decanters from the late 1970s that all likely have lead glazing. I spent probably 40ish for the lot of them. 3 are Beam BiB with whiskey distilled in 1959, bottled in 1975 (16 year old BiB whiskey). I really like them and would hate to just get rid of them.

I'm a physician scientist student so I've got some information from science and medicine. There's a lead exposure study that's been going on in Cincinnati for several decades assessing neural development in children exposed to lead in deteriorating homes in the area. All conclusions have shown that lab is dangerous at every exposure level (including the currently recommended "safe dose". That said most of the effect seems to be on developing nervous system tissue. Accumulation in bones and other areas of mineral deposit (teeth) leads to lifelong lead exposure in much of this patient population. While what I've read suggests that lead exposure is not as detrimental to adults, it's clear that lead is harmful to everyone.

One of the girls in lab is working on a heavy metal project right now in collaboration with the chemistry department. I'm going to check with my PI to see if it would be possible to test the lead content of the whiskey in my decanters. (My personal take on this: I won't be tasting or sharing any decanter whiskey until I have the results. Sorry to those that may have sampled the whiskey at my tasting in January.) :(

Parkersback
03-03-2012, 08:37
I read through this thread when it first was generated, and appreciated it then.

Now I am re-reading it as a friend of mine came across some decanters at a consignment shop. Four out of the five are glass, and so I am wondering: is there any way to know if there's the same hazard with glass decanters from the sixties the way there is with ceramic?

The fifth decanter is an Old Fitz Monticello decanter (presumably ceramic?), and can be found on the bottom right of this page:

http://www.jimbeamclub.com/pictorials/oldfitzgerald/index.html

Is there any way to discern the composition of this one?

tommyboy38
03-03-2012, 21:11
I believe the Old Fitz Monicello is glass.

Bmac
03-06-2012, 09:22
Don't store wine, spirits, or vinegar-based salad dressings in lead crystal decanters for long periods of time, because lead can get into the liquid.

I just started reading through this thread and it is one of the most interesting and informative I have ever witnessed. However, I saw this post about Lead Crystal Decanters. I received a crystal decanter for Christmas. I was unaware that there is lead in crystal.

Sadly, I am about to display my newbie badge and possibly my uninformed, and uneducated badge when I say this...but...is there a danger of lead in pure crystal containers?

My belief was that the danger would be in any (lead) paint used to decorate the bottle:shocked:.

p_elliott
03-06-2012, 10:45
I just started reading through this thread and it is one of the most interesting and informative I have ever witnessed. However, I saw this post about Lead Crystal Decanters. I received a crystal decanter for Christmas. I was unaware that there is lead in crystal.

Sadly, I am about to display my newbie badge and possibly my uninformed, and uneducated badge when I say this...but...is there a danger of lead in pure crystal containers?

My belief was that the danger would be in any (lead) paint used to decorate the bottle:shocked:.

There are Lead crystal decanters and Crystal decanters. The lead crystal decanters will leak lead into the alcohol if booze is stored in them long term . The Crystal ones will not.

Bmac
03-06-2012, 11:03
There are Lead crystal decanters and Crystal decanters. The lead crystal decanters will leak lead into the alcohol if booze is stored in them long term . The Crystal ones will not.
Goodness. Do they still make lead crystal decanters? I almost wonder why they would bother.

unclebunk
03-06-2012, 11:24
I just drink whatever I find and limit the amount per session when pouring from an old lead decanter. Something's gonna kill me--it might as well be whiskey!:grin:

bmajazz
03-23-2012, 23:01
FWIW, I got an 8-pack of 3m lead testers. Easy to use, and highly rated. I used them on a number of ceramic decanters I had, and found:

I.W. Harper barrel decanter (90 proof, 120? month): tested positive for lead
Michter's King Tut and '76 bicentennial 1/2 pt jug: negative for lead

That's all I had lying around. I have a 1.75L Tut that is unopened. I might just open it..

Keep in mind that I tested the outside of these sealed decanters.

Enoch
03-24-2012, 07:06
FWIW, I got an 8-pack of 3m lead testers. Easy to use, and highly rated. I used them on a number of ceramic decanters I had, and found:

I.W. Harper barrel decanter (90 proof, 120? month): tested positive for lead
Michter's King Tut and '76 bicentennial 1/2 pt jug: negative for lead

That's all I had lying around. I have a 1.75L Tut that is unopened. I might just open it..

Keep in mind that I tested the outside of these sealed decanters.
Where did you get the lead testers?

ethangsmith
03-24-2012, 11:11
Michter's tested lead free huh? Maybe I'll try and score a few of these kits and test all my Michter's decanters. That would be quite interesting if they are actually lead free!

bmajazz
03-24-2012, 18:13
I got the lead testing kit on Amazon. the 8 pack seemed reasonable, not super cheap but lead poisoning is not worth it!

It also comes with a lead coated test strip paper that you can use to verify that the tester is good. That way, no false negatives!

Brain dead simple to use. If it turns red, it has lead.

bmajazz
06-27-2012, 23:12
Update: I just got a couple of new decanters. The Michters Tut decanters (and a Nefertiti) tested negative for lead. Also, two Beam decanters I tested (100 month, Reno 100th anniversary; JB Choice, greek amphora) both tested negative. Also I have two little Henry McKenna 1/10pt jugs, not sure if they are ceramic but they look so. Both negative.

Anyone else? Have there been any developments on this topic?

wripvanwrinkle
06-28-2012, 11:03
Update: I just got a couple of new decanters. The Michters Tut decanters (and a Nefertiti) tested negative for lead. Also, two Beam decanters I tested (100 month, Reno 100th anniversary; JB Choice, greek amphora) both tested negative. Also I have two little Henry McKenna 1/10pt jugs, not sure if they are ceramic but they look so. Both negative.

Anyone else? Have there been any developments on this topic?

If it is worth the 15 bucks to you to do so, go to Home Depot and buy the Pro Labs kit. Send them the sample, and then you will know the exact lead level. As they are using a mass spectrometer, their measurements are going to be very accurate. For what it is worth, my first tests were with "home tests" as well. All of those tests showed "negative" for lead even though the mass spectrometer found very high levels within samples from the same bottle.

In brief, all I can say is that my WT decanters from the 1970's show high levels of lead contamination. Once you consume lead, it takes about a month to get rid of half of it. For my sample with its amount of lead within a 50ml drink (1.83 ug/dL), if I had 1 drink from my bottle each week then I would reach the EPA perceived "harmful" level within 6-7 weeks.

Personally, knowing this, I wouldn't regularly drink from these bottles (which stinks because I decanted my "score" into about 12 750ml bottles.) For me, the 1970's WT rummy yumminess doesn't outweigh my peace of mind. Off topic, but when my wife sees a bottle of Wild Turkey she alwas asks "leaded or unleaded?"

Having said that, I still don't completely avoid decanters. Over the last 12 months I've had 2 decanted drinks: an Eagle Rare from Lawrenceburg and some 1950's Old Fitz. The opportunity to try the whiskey outweighed the risk. Then again, I personally would not do so every week. I probably wouldn't even do so once a month.

wripvanwrinkle
06-28-2012, 11:06
Is it possible for a Mod to fix the spelling error that I made in the thread title? "Decater" versus "Decanter"?

callmeox
06-28-2012, 12:47
Your OCD should be more at ease now. :grin:

p_elliott
06-29-2012, 00:19
Is it possible for a Mod to fix the spelling error that I made in the thread title? "Decater" versus "Decanter"?

You expect me to spell :slappin:

wripvanwrinkle
06-29-2012, 10:12
Your OCD should be more at ease now. :grin:


You expect me to spell :slappin:

Thanks, Scott! But now that I am thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that someone left the stove on at the Gazebo. Paul would you mind stopping by and checking that out?

smknjoe
01-10-2013, 15:24
I read through this thread and it was pretty interesting to see that many people still dismiss lead exposure. Another thing that I noticed was someone saying there is a difference between leaded cyrstal glassware and "real" crystal galssware. I'm pretty sure all high quality crystal glassware is leaded as it's the addition of the lead that makes it "crystal" instead of regular glass. I don't know of any glassware that is made from crystals such as quartz. And lead glazes are still commonly found on ceramics that come from China and other underdeveloped countries.

Kalessin
01-11-2013, 16:05
I read through this thread and it was pretty interesting to see that many people still dismiss lead exposure. Another thing that I noticed was someone saying there is a difference between leaded cyrstal glassware and "real" crystal galssware. I'm pretty sure all high quality crystal glassware is leaded as it's the addition of the lead that makes it "crystal" instead of regular glass. I don't know of any glassware that is made from crystals such as quartz. And lead glazes are still commonly found on ceramics that come from China and other underdeveloped countries.

There is a company called Ravenscroft Crystal that claims they make and sell lead-free crystal. I haven't bought anything of theirs, but some of what they offer looks okay. I've seen a decanter or two of theirs at Bed Bath & Beyond, but not any glasses.

http://www.ravenscroftcrystal.com

smknjoe
01-11-2013, 16:29
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure the Waterford and Mikasa crystal dinner ware (wine glasses, tumblers, decanters, etc.) we have is leaded, but not positive. I know for a fact the decanters and a pitcher are as they are/were labeled with the lead content when new as a sign of quality. These were all purchased within the last 10 years or so. Some may be a little older. I personally don't use them very often, but we have in the past.

ErikH
01-12-2013, 07:58
It's my understanding that lead crystal stemware is fine, because the liquid doesn't stay in the glass long enough for leeching to occur. Crystal decanters need to be used for decanting and not storage; unused liquor needs to be put back in the original container or another non-lead glass container.

smknjoe
01-12-2013, 10:39
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've heard to do as well. When I was a kid my Mom used to store scotch in leaded crystal decanters for long periods of time since she didn't drink (Dad drank bourbon.) When guests came over I guess they got a little dose. Probably not much worse than some of the tap water back then. Now that I think about it, my friends and I may have snuck a little sip a few times :) Thankfully, lead exposure from various sources is not as common as it used to be, but it's not something to completely ignore as some do. On the other hand ignorance really is bliss!

ebo
01-12-2013, 13:20
What is considered a safe period of time for whisk(e)y to be kept in a lead crystal decanter?

ErikH
01-12-2013, 13:29
I'm not trying to downplay the hazards of lead poisoning,(there is no know safe exposure level for lead) but lead is everywhere, and we are almost constantly being exposed to it. A great deal of the water pipes in the streets of Chicago are still lead, for example, and the U.S. only banned lead solder in tin cans in 1995. Many canned goods sold in foreign countries still contain lead solder.

Ejmharris
01-12-2013, 19:51
I'm not trying to downplay the hazards of lead poisoning,(there is no know safe exposure level for lead) but lead is everywhere, and we are almost constantly being exposed to it. A great deal of the water pipes in the streets of Chicago are still lead, for example, and the U.S. only banned lead solder in tin cans in 1995. Many canned goods sold in foreign countries still contain lead solder.

Not an expert here at all, but I would assume lead water pipes in Chicago have water constantly flowing and does not give it much chance to leach into the water supply. I would also assume that there is a lot of testing to assure the levels are safe. Whiskey that has remained stagnant in a lead based ceramic decanter has sat for 30 years. Enough members on here have done testings to identify high levels in the decanters for me to stay away from them. To each his own on taking the chance but I am staying away from them. I have had opportunities to buy many many full decanters in the area and have passed.


Mike

jburlowski
01-13-2013, 03:54
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1694534/

ebo
01-13-2013, 08:32
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1694534/

Thanks for posting that. I guess I won't be keeping whisk(e)y in a lead crystal decanter.

Special Reserve
01-13-2013, 09:06
I'm surprised how fast lead is leached into solution from the decanters.

tanstaafl2
01-13-2013, 09:46
I was a little surprised by how much lead there was in each of the media before they went into the decanters. Although I suppose I shouldn't be given how pervasive lead is in the environment.

Also surprised at how acidic port and to a lesser extant the "synthetic" alcoholic beverage is although with a fair quantity of citric acid in it I suppose I shouldn't be.

Curious too that they used different decanters for the port than they used for the other two media.

wripvanwrinkle
01-21-2013, 15:55
14.6 mg / L bourbon * 50 mL bourbon / dram * 1 dram / 60 dL blood = 12.2 ug/dL

Uh-oh. The EPA says that 10.0 ug/dL is harmful, while a single dram has raised me to 12.2 ug/dL. Want a second dram?

Fortunately, not all is lost. Sutton points out above that only 10-15% of dietary lead is absorbed in a non-pregnant adult. [7] (If you are drinking lead contaminated whiskey while pregnant, then shame on you.) Taking the 15% absorption rate into account, then each dram adds another 1.83 ug/dL to my blood supply.
...



For a while now, I've been looking for a health effect chart that is measured in ug/dL. I finally found one produced by the ATSDR; California Health Department in 1993:



Adult Reactions to Lead (micrograms per deci-liter)



Blood Lead Level

Possible Health Effects



15 ug/dL

Increase in blood pressure; harmful effects on fetus; joint and muscle aches



25 ug/dL

Reproductive problems



40 ug/dL

Kidney damage; damage to blood formation



60 ug/dL

Anemia; nerve damage; constipation; stomach pains;
irritability and fatigue; memory and concentration problems; clumsiness;
drowsiness and sleep problems



80 ug/dL
&
above

Blue line on gums; uncontrollable shaking of hands; wrist and
foot drop; hallucinations; brain damage; coma; death





Per my original estimate of 1.83 ug/dL per drink (and assuming 1 drink per day), the first set of symptoms (high blood pressure/joint an muscle pain) would appear in about 5 days. This is interesting as when I was drinking this sample every day, I was starting to feel a tightness in my chest.

Reproductive problems would kick in after about 2 weeks. Don't stress it though, my wife and I are done having kids.

After about a month I get a little stupider, have trouble sleeping, and am likely acting like a real pain in the ass.

Remember (from earlier) that about half of consumed lead is purged from the body every 30 days. I'm going to cheat and assume that this cleansing happens all at once.

In another month (after 60 total days) I'm acting like a crack head. I might slip into coma. Even worse, I might just keel over dead. I think that now is the time to put that bottle aside. It is possible that my tested bottle had an abnormally high lead content. I've been enjoying an occasional pour from a Old Fitz 7 year decanter from the late 60's. I think that I'll send a sample of it in next.

michaelturtle1
01-21-2013, 16:09
I'm surprised how fast lead is leached into solution from the decanters.

The ASTM method for determining leachable lead from a food contact vessel calls for a 24 hr 4% acetic acid leach(vinegar), so I would assume a vast majority of lead that is going to leach from a vessel occurs rapidly. I have never done any studies on long term leaching but I might have to give it a try especially given my growing collection of decanters..

tanstaafl2
01-21-2013, 17:48
For a while now, I've been looking for a health effect chart that is measured in ug/dL. I finally found one produced by the ATSDR; California Health Department in 1993:



Adult Reactions to Lead (micrograms per deci-liter)


Blood Lead Level
Possible Health Effects


15 ug/dL
Increase in blood pressure; harmful effects on fetus; joint and muscle aches


25 ug/dL
Reproductive problems


40 ug/dL
Kidney damage; damage to blood formation


60 ug/dL
Anemia; nerve damage; constipation; stomach pains;
irritability and fatigue; memory and concentration problems; clumsiness;
drowsiness and sleep problems


80 ug/dL
&
above
Blue line on gums; uncontrollable shaking of hands; wrist and
foot drop; hallucinations; brain damage; coma; death




Per my original estimate of 1.83 ug/dL per drink (and assuming 1 drink per day), the first set of symptoms (high blood pressure/joint an muscle pain) would appear in about 5 days. This is interesting as when I was drinking this sample every day, I was starting to feel a tightness in my chest.

Reproductive problems would kick in after about 2 weeks. Don't stress it though, my wife and I are done having kids.

After about a month I get a little stupider, have trouble sleeping, and am likely acting like a real pain in the ass.

Remember (from earlier) that about half of consumed lead is purged from the body every 30 days. I'm going to cheat and assume that this cleansing happens all at once.

In another month (after 60 total days) I'm acting like a crack head. I might slip into coma. Even worse, I might just keel over dead. I think that now is the time to put that bottle aside. It is possible that my tested bottle had an abnormally high lead content. I've been enjoying an occasional pour from a Old Fitz 7 year decanter from the late 60's. I think that I'll send a sample of it in next.

Lead is certainly a serious concern although it might be difficult to draw a direct correlation on the amount of lead in your system associated with drinking a lead contaminated liquid without drawing serial serum lead levels. Bioavailability of the lead may result in less being absorbed than is being consumed. And lead clearance is a continuous process of course. But I probably wouldn't drink the bourbon you had evaluated either. At least not on a regular basis!

If you want more detail you might find the information found in the Lead Tox Profile (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/PHS/PHS.asp?id=92&tid=22) on the ATSDR website to be of interest. It references leaded crystal as a source but I haven't read this in detail in awhile so I don't recall how extensively.

1.3 How might I be exposed to lead?

Lead may also enter foods if they are put into improperly glazed pottery or ceramic dishes and from leaded-crystal glassware. Illegal whiskey made using stills that contain lead-soldered parts (such as truck radiators) may also contain lead.

wripvanwrinkle
01-21-2013, 19:28
Lead is certainly a serious concern although it might be difficult to draw a direct correlation on the amount of lead in your system associated with drinking a lead contaminated liquid without drawing serial serum lead levels. Bioavailability of the lead may result in less being absorbed than is being consumed. And lead clearance is a continuous process of course. But I probably wouldn't drink the bourbon you had evaluated either. At least not on a regular basis!


I agree that there is always room for improvement, but please note that my calculation assumes a 15% absorption rate. Apparently 10-15% is common for lead digested into the blood stream. Also, I account for the 50% cleans although not admittedly daily. Having said that, the 2 month value works out to be almost the same.

Again, although the concentration of my sample may be abnormally high...I think my calculations are sufficiently close to be a little disturbing.

tanstaafl2
01-22-2013, 10:51
I agree that there is always room for improvement, but please note that my calculation assumes a 15% absorption rate. Apparently 10-15% is common for lead digested into the blood stream. Also, I account for the 50% cleans although not admittedly daily. Having said that, the 2 month value works out to be almost the same.

Again, although the concentration of my sample may be abnormally high...I think my calculations are sufficiently close to be a little disturbing.

Missed that you had used a 15% absorption rate which is reasonable. And yes, the calculations are a bit disturbing. As I said I wouldn't drink it either!

Would love to convince the NCEH lab to do an analysis on it.

darylld911
05-05-2013, 14:12
Wow . . . I am SO bummed! I stumbled upon (and bought) a small 50 mL Wild Turkey decanter at a flea market today, in the box, tax stamped, with the cork broke off (but when I shook it, definitely liquid inside!) Found out it is from 1981 based on the series (it was still in the original box). 101 proof, 8 yrs old from 1981 . . . and I'm not supposed to drink it :hot: It was only $8, so not a big waste of money I guess. I may come back to this thread to try to read and understand the volume/timing pieces. Wondering if I drink just HALF of it, 25 mL, and a lot of water . . . might be OK.

darylld911
05-05-2013, 14:41
Well - didn't matter. When I poured it out, the fill was less than an ounce so my guess is that somewhere between 40-50% had evaporated. Smelled nice, but with no expectation of greatness and a potential for lead poisoning - dumped it.

Flyfish
05-05-2013, 15:20
My wife's uncle was a wine and spirits distributor who always had those ceramic bourbon releases on his bar. Very genorous with his product and the New Year was always special at his house. Dead ten years ago today. RIP Cletus. We still miss you. I don't think your passing had anything to do with lead in the glaze. Even so, we miss you--and the booze.

skidfive
05-05-2013, 17:25
I found four porcelean WT 101 8 year decanters from after 1980. NOT the ceramic ones. I have emptied the 1981, 1982, and 1985 into empty bottles and every single one yielded 740-745ml after pouring through a metal tea type filter. 2 of the corks were broken off of the head pieces, but the cork still had a good seal to the decanter. The other one had an intact tax strip, but when I took it off the cork broke from the head piece like the other two.


Once i pushed through the cork with a cork screw it fell apart, but no evaporation. Had a little taste test of the 81 and 85 and had no cork/air taste whatsoever. It tasted like WT 101, but more mature. Very smooth, creamy mouth warming, less rye then I was expecting and more vanilla. Very tasty pours.

darylld911
05-05-2013, 17:38
The 50 mL was also porcelain according to the box. When I pushed the cork in and poured (similar tea filter!) I got roughly 3/4 or 4/5 of an ounce. As a 50 mL, I was hoping to see 45 mL (10% loss), but even a level ounce would have meant roughly a 40% loss. I tried some WT 101 12 yr a couple weeks ago and thought it was amazing stuff. I never would have thought to look at flea markets (and really more of an antique store), but will definitely keep my eyes open! Sounds like you had great results with great whiskey!

skidfive
05-05-2013, 17:59
according to the OP, the porceleans should be fine, he heard it from the wt tour that the lead was used through the ceramic decanter era. I have seen a few other ones as well at second hand stores/antique shops/ etc. like you mentiong, but those all had nothing in it. I found mine at a local liquor store randomly.

smknjoe
06-02-2013, 01:01
I just recently found a porcelain S-W WSR decanter from 1986. Where did you see that porcelain would not have a lead glaze? From what I've read there is little practical difference between ceramic and porcelain stoneware and they both use glazes to seal them. The glaze is what contains the lead. I think I'll just leave this puppy sealed even though it feels and sounds full.

tmckenzie
06-02-2013, 05:00
This thread and several things I have seen and learned while dealing with the new still we have in now. How much lead was in whiskey produced way back before people knew lead was a problem. I know they used lead solder, Tail Boxes had lead in them I know, I doubt lead pipe was used, but it is possible. I know my yeast jug I use to this day has a lead seal on the valve.

sutton
06-07-2013, 15:02
I just recently found a porcelain S-W WSR decanter from 1986. Where did you see that porcelain would not have a lead glaze? From what I've read there is little practical difference between ceramic and porcelain stoneware and they both use glazes to seal them. The glaze is what contains the lead. I think I'll just leave this puppy sealed even though it feels and sounds full.

Looking a bit online, porcelain is fired at a higher temp and does not need glazing to make it non-porous. However, that doesn't mean they didn't use a glaze for decorative purposes. If that glaze however was only used on the outside (which you'd assume they'd do since glazing internally would only be needed for making it non-porous which would be unnecessary for porcelain), it might be OK even if it included lead. The only way to know for sure (and peace of mind) would be to get a test kit and test the whiskey inside.

Lead crystal/glassware is a different matter - lead oxide makes glass easier to work with and also increases its refractive index (making it "sparkle" more - which is why they are usually so ornately decorated - has the effect you'd look for in a properly cut diamond ring). Other information posted here indicates that undesirable levels of lead will leach into a sufficiently acidic solution in as little as 24 hours. Wine's acidity and pH is particularly effective at leaching the lead from lead crystal - so your decanters should be lead-free, but for serving you could probably safely use fancy, expensive decanter/glassware as long as it didn't sit in there more than a couple hours during a typical dinner, and if used occasionally. For a whiskey, I don't know what typical pH/acidity would be, however, in there you would be storing it for a longer period, and that is likely to lead to undesirable levels of lead accumulating over time.

smknjoe
06-07-2013, 15:11
Thanks for the info Mark. That's somewhat encouraging I have a sample of S-W WSR (from a glass bottle) that I'm getting ready to taste. If I decide that I must have more I'll send a sample to be tested. It certainly is a shame that it's just been sitting here not being consumed.

sutton
06-07-2013, 15:18
Thanks for the info Mark. That's somewhat encouraging I have a sample of S-W WSR (from a glass bottle) that I'm getting ready to taste. If I decide that I must have more I'll send a sample to be tested. It certainly is a shame that it's just been sitting here not being consumed.

Glad to help - be safe - for a small investment, you could gain the peace of mind that you can imbibe with confidence! If it goes the other way, well, at least you have a nice decanter and know you won't end up with the sanity of a Roman Emperor! :crazy: