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MMCA & SFTB 131.6 earlier today with Obree online for giggles.

"So why is that". That's the question. I do not know which states get how much of what, or why. So there I cannot comment. I would love to know if Ohio really gets "30% of Weller through 2030" based on a long-standing contract. That would explain a lot. I have also heard (for what it's worth) that BT experiments with different markets to see what "works"...which is a pretty meaningless statement, all companies do that. I have noticed more Blanton's and especially Weller & EHT out there. There's just no question. And it's reflected in secondary prices, consistently. There is clearly more supply of most low-to-mid-range BT products. Permanent? Post-Covid surge? Both? Dunno. That strikes me as the opposite of some sort of "withholding" and inconsistent with their expansion as well. From their website: " The $1.2 billion expansion encompasses all operations at Buffalo Trace Distillery, starting with a new distribution center and bottling operation in 2015 and 2019. More recently, the Distillery added 14 new barrel warehouses, 12 additional fermenters, additional cookers, a new cooling system and tripled the size of its visitor center. In 2022, Buffalo Trace’s additional dry house, hammer mill, additional still house and wastewater treatment plant have been constructed and will be operational by the end of this year. The newly constructed still house will begin operating in December 2022 and allows Buffalo Trace to double its production. The second still house is located adjacent to Buffalo Trace’s existing 1930s still house and contains a duplicate still of Buffalo Trace’s existing still, standing 40 feet tall and having the capacity of 60,000 gallons a day." Seems like we are feeling the effects of some of that increase in capacity. More supply of BTAC? Harder to tell. I have noticed secondary price drops on GTS & THH as well, haven't paid much attention to the others. I do not see how BT benefits from selling more in, say, Ohio than NJ. They sell all they've got at their comparatively low prices. They are not the ones benefiting from the secondary pricing. Indeed, I'm rather surprised that they haven't raised MSRP similar to Michters. I don't think comparisons to other distillers are apples to apples. Right or wrong, there is more demand for BT than OF, JB, etc. I think it comes down to how I started this response: Which states get how much & why. I have no answer to either question.

New arrival; initial tasting is promising! $35 for port-finished bourbon isn't insane (which in and of itself is cause for celebration, no?) Detailed review hopefully in the next week!

@Anwalt I don't disagree with what you say. FMV is FMV, and in places where the state doesn't have a monopoly, that means the price is set by individual stores and those who patronize them. I patronize those stores, and I choose to leave the marked-up BT products to others. But I don't "resent" those stores (probably a poor choice of words on my part). That's because they have all sorts of great bourbons, ryes and scotches at "regular" - that is, competitive - prices, and in New Jersey and other states like it (e.g., Maryland) there's a plethora of choice. But true competitive retail pricing requires that everyone have access to the same supply. In NJ some stores stock BT products and mark 'em up, but most don't stock them at all. That sure smells to me like they have trouble getting BT products because the supply of BT products is constrained. So why is that? Is it fair to blame BT, or are they just the happy beneficiaries (together with the flippers) of demand that outstrips supply? While the full standard lines from every other legacy distiller get supplied in quantities sufficient to give everyone fair access at fair prices?

Likewise. I appreciate the tone, the content, all of it. This is how people learn. "Conversation" seems to be a disappearing art. Now that you mention it, I am curious to know how & why BT distribution varies so much from state to state. A rumor I've never been able to verify: Ohio/OHLQ has a contract for Weller through 2030 made back when Nobody Wanted Bourbon. Then again, I'm curious as to why/how any "rare" or "allocated" whiskey is distributed, because the distribution patterns for all them seem to be non-uniform. I do have a bias and it affects my judgment: If a State Agency is involved, there shall be F Up's and distortions. For example PA puts a lot of allocated stuff online and it disappears in 4 minutes because of bots. I considered having one made (it's not hard), but have simply had better things to do. PA knows about it. They don't care. That's not a BT issue. That's a "PA State Employees Whose Jobs Should Be Outsourced to Excel" issue. You quite rightly compared a Control state to an Open state. For me Indiana is a paradigm of the latter. I never see BT allocated stuff there at MSRP. Indeed, I almost never see anything allocated at all, even non-BT, even at high mark-ups. And when I do see anything allocated, it usually is quite marked up. That, or I got lucky and stumbled into Kroger or some other chain in the right 90 seconds. It's also the best place in the country (with the possible exception of Costco's in CA, etc.) to buy fairly regular stuff at great prices (e.g., KC12, OE7 rye, 4R regular SiB, etc.). Indiana Bros - am I mistaken? But some of that "regular" stuff (notably KC12) is harder to find elsewhere. Why Jim Beam? Whhhyyyyy? BT is not the only one with odd distribution patterns. I've made it a bit of a hobby to get the cheapest bottle, even if it only saves me $10 or so. It helps that I have friends, "friends", and clients all over the place. So I have (perhaps "had" as I am now calming down a bit) a pretty good feel for what sells for what where...or is even available. For example, I have found that JD SBBP rye is consistently & easily found in TX at $70. Way less so in most other places I visit, including TN. Color me confused! I haven't the faintest clue how state-by-state distribution decisions are made for any brand, much less BT. So maybe BT is Evil in its state-by-state distribution and I missed the memo. But in that case, I don't think they are alone. In terms of mark-ups - I personally put that on the distributors/stores. But again, I don't blame them. Most of us ask the most we can get per hour of labor. Why would retailers be any different? FMV is FMV. Don't like it? Don't pay (which seems to be a pretty common approach by many here, which is totally fair). For example, I like Porsches. I just don't like them anywhere near as much as others who are willing to pay far more than I am. No skin off my back. Someone else made a point, as to THH I think. That BT could make more and does not. That's an interesting thought. I do not know enough to respond to it. Anyhoo, this is a pretty interesting discussion. I appreciate the various insights.

The Generations is elegant. Ignoring the price, it is a very refined WT expression, nothing like any other WT I have had in 50+ years. The age is evident, the proof is not. Nose: orange peel, baking spices, rich dark cherry, cream brûlée, black pepper and candied ginger. Palate: All of the above but drifts into honey, vanilla and the tongue tingle of cayenne. Finish: Crème brûlée, baking spice and graham crackers. The tongue tingle lasts for a long time. In a blind comparison, I am not certain that I would identify it as WT. It needs to be savored and enjoyed. I love RR13 but it is a much bolder expression of WT. It is a “in your face” WT, no question, with a lot of the above listed notes but amped up to grab your attention. My preference would depend on my mood.

OF Statesman, heard of but have never seen, New Riff, Green River.

How does the Generations compare to the RR13? I only have one bottle of the Generations so I have not opened it yet:}. Thanks VWIndy

I appreciate your perspectives, @Anwaltand @fishnbowljoe. However, the BT situation in Pennsylvania and New Jersey is ridiculous. Here in Pennsy, which ha a state store monopoly, I see BT and ER10 maybe two or three times a year, at regular price and limited to one bottle per customer. Weller in any form is NEVER available, not to mention any of their "allocated" brands. BT is major national distiller - why can't it get any of even its standard brands into PA? All the other legacy distillers are well represented here - why not BT? The only BT brand I see in PA with any regularity is Sazerac rye (which is fine with me because it's my favorite BT product anyway!) As for New Jersey, where private liquor stores big and small ensure a vast variety of bourbons and ryes, BT products are also largely unavailable, and when they are the prices are jacked up or the stuff is doled out behind the counter to preferred customers. Thankfully, A. Smith Bowman products can be found in NJ at regular prices and that's how I scratch my BT itch. I also got lucky a couple of years ago and found some BT Kosher Wheat Recipe, which is as close as I've gotten to sniffing a Weller in at least six years. Now if this were some hip craft distiller with limited production, or even the special allocated products of a legacy distiller (I've haven't seen a OF Birthday Bourbon in years), I'd understand it. But what's effectively missing in PA and NJ are the standard brands of one of the largest legacy distillers, and, yeah, I resent it and believe that BT is ultimately to blame for the situation. Please note that I don't criticize the bourbon. ER10 is tasty stuff, and so is EHTaylor small batch which is also no more than a fond and distant memory to me. But when a national distiller either can't get its standard brands into a major market, or creates or tolerates the conditions where the stuff is subjected to outrageous markups, then something's wrong. I can get the full lines of Wild Turkey, Old Forester and Beam products just about everywhere I look. And that's who gets my business.

Agreed...the RR is a staple on our bar and flies under the radar. The only other whiskey that comes to mind that delivers so much for ~ $25.00 is OGD BiB, which also flies under the radar. The Dad's Hat Pre-Prohibition style rye is amazing

@Anwalt Found the MM sampler pic! It looks like the "other" was the Maker's White.

My first ECBP was the BYOB nearly 2 years ago, first time on the trail. Love at first sight. It has continued to grow. The only things they make that I don't really care for are the Berheim, the regular Larceny (though I look forward to mixing it with the L BP), and the EC toasted. The ECBP's, most of the Larceny BP, the HHSS (BYOB only), the Old Fitz, the wonderful PHC16....this is my wheelhouse. Yum.

Flying tonight.

Two more harvests in my bunker beatdown. Too lazy (under the influence) to post either in the proper forum; apologies. Pat

As far as markets are concerned, the three tier liquor distribution system leaves something to be desired. IMHO, it is sorely lacking. I think most folks would agree with that. The system itself leads to skullduggery. Case in point is a manager of a Meijer or several Meijer stores in the Chicago area. He sold their entire Pappy and BTAC allotment to one individual to share with his group and/or to sell for a profit. It was mentioned here. The CEO of Sazerac/BT is Mark Brown. I contacted him about this. I sent him an email with pictures and explained what I surmised was going on. He thanked me, and said they were already aware, and action was being taken. FWIW, I have a pretty good relationship with Sazerac/BT CEO Mark Brown. For a number of years, I’ve touched base with him on a semi-regular basis. I’ve also had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times. Once was at the end of a staff meeting of the management team at BT. Myself and a few others had the pleasure of interacting with the entire team, with the exception of Harlan Wheatly. They even took the time to give us a brief, but very nice and informative presentation. I trust the man, the company, and its practices. That probably isn’t good enough for a couple of folks here. So be it.

Definitely a pro tip! I've done similar.

If it's anything like the 16 year, then you're in for a real treat. It sounds like you've been converted

This is Meaningful. I feel Affirmed. Sounds like MM was fun...as far as you remember! I had a similar experience at Lux Row...they were trying to convert a Scotch guy to bourbon. He'd take the tiniest sip and hand it over. Could not let the LR12 and OE7 Rye go to waste! I have a HH17 waiting for me in Ohio. Buddy said it was fantastic. I'm looking forward to it.

Four Gate BRBN Downunder. Interesting whiskey.

As a charter member of the Cheap Bastard Club, I approve. I did something similar at MM, where the tour was much cheaper It wasn't a planned strategy, but it was happenstance, as the samples are already poured, before each group goes in the tasting room. The group wasn't full, so we sat in the back row, next to a couple empty seats. Naturally, I couldn't let those samples go to waste. If memory serves, it was standard Maker's, 46, CS, Private Selection and maybe something else. Might have a Pic somewhere. Anyhoooo...for the Cheap Bastard Bonus Round, in addition to the empy seat pours, the elderly couple next to offered me his and his wife's samples, because they were there to visit the grounds, and they don't drink. After a couple, I had to turn them down, because it was our first tour of the day. We did a tasting experience at HH. don't remember the cost, but it wasn't pricey, and included some very good pours. They also held back a few bottles for the tour group to purchase. My buddy bought a William Heavenhill 14 or 16 year...I couldn't tell, buy he paid ~ $250.00. I passed but, in retrospect, I wish I would have. It's very good.

I don't understand how you could guarantee something like that. I think it's pretty obvious that they create artificial shortages of Thomas H. Handy, a 6 year old barrel proof rye. I think OWA is also surely under-packaged compared to their stocks of the wheated product they have on hand. Hard to say about the others. The fact that many markets (states) see so little of stuff like BT and WSR is pretty damning evidence to me.

My USPSA Steel Challenge hat for this season!

Sazerac/BT has not created an artificial shortage of their products. That, I can pretty much guarantee. What has had an effect over the last number of years is more “pieces of the pie” being shared with numerous other entities. Bars and restaurants want in on more and more of the action. Distributors (at least in our area) have taken note. They’ve seemed to care about, and cater more to their off premise accounts than they do about liquor stores. They also hold some stores hostage hostage. You can get a case or two of something, but only if you buy 10 cases of something else. That something else is usually products that are a little harder to sell. Distributors here also have a negative effect in another way. A store can order a case of something limited. They’ ll get it, but ony two or three bottles at a time over a month or more. That way they don’t have to give the store a case discount. Hence stores can’t pass on the savings to us consumers. No way is any of this the fault of Sazerac/BT.

I'm gonna respectfully beg to differ. They price well. It's everyone else who drives up the price. Unlike other distillers, they have not pocketed the money that would come from moving their MSRP closer to FMV. And they are clearly increasing supply, which is driving down FMV/Secondary. They charge reasonable prices at their level. It's others who drive up the prices at retail or post-retail. I also find no fault with their distribution. Supply is finite. They reward those who sell a bunch of other stuff. I do not have a problem with that. Indeed, it makes sense to me. JM(NS)HO, perhaps I am mistaken or missing something.

The ECBP bottle from the Bottle Your Own tour at HH. Good grief, those are good. I really do believe them when they say they save their best for those tours. For the Cheap Bastard(s): On that BYO tour I watched were people sat. And then sat next to an empty seat that had the full tasting glasses sitting there. Someone would have dumped them out. Impermissible. I did my duty. Double tasting! No one objected. I figured best to ask forgiveness instead of permission. Pro Tip? Justified the $40 for the tour.