Tom Moore distillery sold to Sazerac

[Jake_Parrott]

As part of Constellation's $334M unloading of "value" spirits brands to Sazerac Company, the Tom Moore distillery ("Barton"), the only currently-running commercial bourbon still in Bardstown, is now owned by the folks who own Buffalo Trace. Speculations, anyone?

http://blog.maltadvocate.com/2009/01/12/tom-moore-distillery-ridgemont-reserve-bourbon-sold-to-sazerac/

[Josh]

:bigeyes: trying...not...to...panic...

[funknik]

I hope Josh doesn't have a coronary! I'm wondering if this might affect me in a positive way from a distribution sense. I see many more BT products up here in ME than Barton (in fact, I think the only one may be 1792 RR) and Sazerac Rye showed up a couple of months ago for the first time, so I thinnk BT is expanding up into this territory a little more. I know there's a good chance that things will change for those bottlings, but anything that brings a wider selection my way would be good, if only in a purely selfish way. However,it seems Sazerac is a pretty responsible and accountable company and BT seems to strive to maintain quality among the labels they have picked up...hopefully this will be true.

[mozilla]

I disagree. I have seen the before and after of many labels that BT has inherited. Not to say that they ruined them, but there is a definite difference between many of them. I feel they have mostly gone down hill to a degree. Are they still better than others on the market, yes. Are they as good as they could be.....hard to say. Many of the issues that BT runs into involve warehouse space to fully age all their stable of labels.

Also, this means that there is one less distillery flavor profile in the marketplace. I don't know how that translates to a "wider selection"? I feel that the consolidation of distilleries is ruining the complete "pie" of flavor profiles. Now, every Barton label will be filled with BT juice.

[funknik]

I disagree. I have seen the before and after of many labels that BT has inherited. Not to say that they ruined them, but there is a definite difference between many of them. I feel they have mostly gone down hill to a degree. Are they still better than others on the market, yes. Are they as good as they could be.....hard to say. Many of the issues that BT runs into involve warehouse space to fully age all their stable of labels.

Also, this means that there is one less distillery flavor profile in the marketplace. I don't know how that translates to a "wider selection"? I feel that the consolidation of distilleries is ruining the complete "pie" of flavor profiles. Now, every Barton label will be filled with BT juice.

Good point....I wasn't really thinking of it in terms of the long term, I guess I spoke before really hashing it all out. Obviously the less distilleries the less profiles -- being unfamiliar with Barton in general I wouldn't really be personally affected, but I feel sorry for those that will feel the pain on this one.

[kickert]

What is the chance that Sazerac would leave the distillery as is and allow it to continue production.

[Josh]

I'm not hyperventilating for the moment so I'll take this opportunity to respond.

There seem to be several possible senarios going forward from here. I'll start with the ones I like the best, and end with the worst.

1. Saz owns Barton, but basically leaves it alone. The bourbons continue to be made the same way and nothing really changes other than who signs the employee's paychecks.

B. Saz does consolidate, but the Barton "bite" retains its teeth and the Bardstown and Owensboro facilities remain largely the same.

III. Saz unloads Barton on somebody else (e.g. B-F) and they continue things unchanged (although they may sue themselves as in the Coke Zero commercials).

Delta- Saz spins off Barton or sells them to an independent or NDP (e.g. KBD)

5. Saz shuts down distilling at the B-town facilities, and folds Barton into BT, but makes an effort to keep VOB distinct from its other rye-flavored products.

F. The above, but no real effort is made to keep VOB distinct. It fills a price slot between BT & AAA or something like that.

VII. VOB and its kin die, but the distillery is kept open for bulk whiskey production

Zeta- Everything is killed, including all the employees at Bardstown and Owensboro!

9. BT uses the Barton name to launch a new line of "light" whiskey.

[funknik]

I'm not hyperventilating for the moment so I'll take this opportunity to respond.

There seem to be several possible scenarios going forward from here. I'll start with the ones I like the best, and end with the worst.

Josh, great rundown. I think (hope!) barring the last couple of options (I'd like to see the employees keep their lives :grin:), this won't be a terrible disaster. As long as these bottlings aren't ruined, I would think it's preferable to keep them out there rather than seeing them go the way of the dodo.

[sku]

Maybe BT will leave it alone but increase distribution of VOB. That's certainly something I'd like to see.

[Josh]

Maybe BT will leave it alone but increase distribution of VOB. That's certainly something I'd like to see.

Ditto. That could be a positive consequence of 1-5. Or maybe even a Barrel-proof Barton entry into the BTAC!

Hey, a guy can dream.

[barturtle]

I disagree. I have seen the before and after of many labels that BT has inherited. Not to say that they ruined them, but there is a definite difference between many of them. I feel they have mostly gone down hill to a degree. Are they still better than others on the market, yes. Are they as good as they could be.....hard to say. Many of the issues that BT runs into involve warehouse space to fully age all their stable of labels.

Also, this means that there is one less distillery flavor profile in the marketplace. I don't know how that translates to a "wider selection"? I feel that the consolidation of distilleries is ruining the complete "pie" of flavor profiles. Now, every Barton label will be filled with BT juice.

I think you are missing a couple points here, Jeff:

A: BT isn't exactly bristling with excess capacity, so it's unlikely that they would consider shutting down Tom Moore.

B: In every other case, when Sazerac has taken over a brand they have moved the production from one distillery to theirs.

So far, other than culling some labels to make room for new ones (as in, so they have enough aged spirit to meet demand for the newer label...and yes I miss most of those culled as much as you do) Sazerac has been very flexible in maintaining as much of the original character of the inherited brands as can be reasonably expected.

In this case, they will have the original distillery, be able to operate it with the same folks that have been producing the brands all this time, so I foresee little change in the quality of those products.

However, Sazerac does have a love of special editions and the ability to market them quite well. I wouldn't expact it to be long before they've scouted the warehouses for some lovely barrels to be dispensed out to those of us who are willing to pay the modest (or not) price of admission.

[Rughi]

Had the Tom Moore visitors center even opened before they sold the plant?

However, Sazerac does have a love of special editions and the ability to market them quite well. I wouldn't expact it to be long before they've scouted the warehouses for some lovely barrels to be dispensed out to those of us who are willing to pay the modest (or not) price of admission.

Yes Timothy, my first thought exactly,

There are members here who've been pining to get some of the special Ridgemont juice in barrel proof form.

I lust after a barrel proof of their excellent rye, which is almost impossible to find except in 80 proof handles in Fond-du-Lac Wisconsin (and maybe not even there anymore).

I believe that BT distills flat-out, for the full seasons they can. I would hope that they don't shut down the stills at Tom Moore.

I was thinking to myself this could be heaven or this could be hell.

Roger

[shoshani]

While I applaud what would seem to be improved distribution for these brands, I do wonder a) what is the current state of the Barton portfolio, especially in regard to their 100 proof expressions, and will Sazerac retain any 100 proof expressions still extant?

It seems to me that Buffalo Trace has an overwhelming preference for 80 and 90 proof bottlings. I've heard very good things about the 100 proof expressions of Kentucky Gentleman/Tavern and Tom Moore but they are impossible to find...do/will they still exist? I'm guessing that nobody knows.

Just because an existing distillery owner buys another distillery doesn't mean that that distillery closes...look at Maker's Mark, which seems to be doing well in an existence independent of the Boston and Clermont complexes of Jim Beam.

There are also many other possibilities of combining all the various mashbills and warehousings to create new high-quality brands of bourbon. This has just as much potential for bourbon bliss as it does for utter decimation of some time-honored brands.

[Slob]

I've only ever had Ten High. If BT can make it better, fine. But I'll be dismayed if they do anything that raises the price.

[cowdery]

Speculation is fine, but there may be some shoes left to drop.

Constellation's press release is here.

My musings on the subject are here.

Consider that Buffalo Trace is one of the few distilleries in Kentucky and Tennessee that still has excess production capacity, so why do they need another distillery and two more bottling houses?

[ThomasH]

I vote for the introduction of the BAC (Barton Antique Collection). Specifically some barrel proof Ridgemont Reserve, Tom Moore/Kentucky Tavern and especially Fleischmans rye. I would even be happy to get some regular Fleischman's rye. Lets hope that BT has the good sense to keep the Tom Moore distillery operating!

Thomas

[schlep]

Too bad Sazerac didn't get the O.F.C. (originally Old Fire Copper) brand from Constellation in the deal and return it to its original home (now BT).

[Hondo]

Damn... I don't do change very well. I'm going to lay in a heavy supply of my favorite VOB's just in case. :skep:

[Josh]

I've only ever had Ten High. If BT can make it better, fine. But I'll be dismayed if they do anything that raises the price.

You haven't lived until you've had VOB, my friend. Find it or get a friend to get it for you. It don't get much better than that.

[kickert]

I am not a huge fan of Barton Brands, but for the price I think I will pick up a few handles of VOB BIB. We will all soon sit back and talk about how much we miss the old flavor profile of VOB before it was sold to BT

[craigthom]

It seems to me that Buffalo Trace has an overwhelming preference for 80 and 90 proof bottlings. I've heard very good things about the 100 proof expressions of Kentucky Gentleman/Tavern and Tom Moore but they are impossible to find...do/will they still exist? I'm guessing that nobody knows.

This is what strikes me, too. Does BT make any 100 proof or more whiskeys besides Weller Antique and the two barrel proof BTACs? Will the BIB bourbons disappear?

It seems that Tom Moore and Heaven Hill are the two distilleries that keep large numbers of limited distribution whiskeys, both bourbons and blends. Will some of these be culled? BT has the AAA 10yr, which is only available in Kentucky, but do they have any others?

And, finally, we do have an example of what Sazerac has done with another bourbon distillery in Virginia. It's my understanding that Virginia Gentlemen is now distilled in Frankfort and trucked to Fredericksburg.

[Virus_Of_Life]

This is what strikes me, too. Does BT make any 100 proof or more whiskeys besides Weller Antique and the two barrel proof BTACs? Will the BIB bourbons disappear?

They have Ancient Age BiB, Rock Hill Farms is 100 proof I believe and I seem to recall at one time was a BiB and the new Charter 101. That's all I can think of immediately off hand.

Since I'm posting I'll add my opinion in that I really hope they do not shut down Tom Moore. That said I am not at all a fan if RR1792 but do appreciate the VOB; although from what I recall they themselves have already changed the 100 proof expression to no longer being Bottled in Bond. I'd like to have tasted some of the others but never commited to memory which were their (KTavern/KGentleman) when I was in Kentucky which is probably the only place I'd seem them.

[shoshani]

And, finally, we do have an example of what Sazerac has done with another bourbon distillery in Virginia. It's my understanding that Virginia Gentlemen is now distilled in Frankfort and trucked to Fredericksburg.

Yes and no, and Sazerac had nothing to do with it.

Jay Adams moved operations from Reston to Fredericksburg in 1987. Shortly thereafter he stopped doing the entire process in Virginia, instead contracting with Heaven Hill to do the first two distillations of his 65% corn 20% rye 15% Malt mashbill at Bardstown, while Adams finished off the third distillation in a pot still at Fredericksburg.

I do not know when BT took ownership of Virginia Gentleman, but my guess is that it happened after Heaven Hill bought Bernheim. However, it's been 1996 since any all-Virginia Virginia Gentleman was bottled. That's before the Heaven Hill fire, and thus before Sazerac's ownership.

[boss302]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but does Barton make anything of solid quality other than 1792?

The rest of their bourbon lineup-- with the singular exception of Very Old Barton (does that bottle remind anyone else of Weller Antique?)-- looks like cheap "Jug bourbon."

[mozilla]

Here is my two cents:

I love Bib and 100 proof whisky. I have found Colonel Lee and Tom Moore are two of my go to flavors. The TM is feisty and full bodied while the Colonel Lee seemed to be a little more sophisticated with caramel and softer tones. I have yet to try the other lower Bib's since they are a little hard to find here.

From what I have been told...the Tom Moore line-up goes like this:

1792 is the high rye mashbill.

Everything else is a version of the low rye mashbill. They profile each label in this catagory to taste a little different but not totally different. VOB is the oldest, with the 6 yr age statement. Everything else is NAS.

I find their 80, 86 and 90 proof versions are excellent for their specific price range. IMO, their juice is slightly better than the average producer and they don't advertise which makes the final price allign with my budgetary constraints on a daily basis.