Tom Moore distillery sold to Sazerac

[koji]

Wow, big news to me too.

I love Barton Bourbon, especially there 100 Proof bottles.

I hope it stays as it is.

Next thing you know Wild Turkey might be owned by one

another Kentucky distiller...

I like all bourbon, and I like them more if they are all owned

by different companies.

Koji

Bourbon Lover in Japan

[smokinjoe]

It would seem to me to be a pretty big risk for Sazerac to do much tinkering with the VOB brand, and the Tom Moore distillery in Bardstown. I believe that VOB is the #1 selling bourbon in Kentucky. For practical and PR reasons, changing or killing such a brand that is so popular with our friends in the Bourbon Motherland could be dangerous. Also, business is business I know, but shuttering the only distillery in the Heart of the Motherland could result in a serious backlash from Kentuckians. I would think that Saz would take advantage of such a meaningful location, rather than destroy it.

On a side note, I remember that in the recent past there were some problems, possibly resulting in litigation, with the black fungus/smell problem in Bardstown, that was due to Barton's distillery. Is it still ongoing?

[BourbonJoe]

If I have learned anything about Kentucky Distilling politics it is "whatever will be - will be". Let's wait and see.

Joe :usflag:

[shoshani]

I believe that VOB is the #1 selling bourbon in Kentucky. For practical and PR reasons, changing or killing such a brand that is so popular with our friends in the Bourbon Motherland could be dangerous.

*cough*Yellowstone*cough*

[mozilla]

*cough*Yellowstone*cough*

Great point!

It has happened before it will happen again. What about Old Taylor and Old Grand Dad? Both were outstanding distilleries and now neither has working stills. What did Beam then do...rebuild or buy two more(MM and B Noe Distillery).

[shoshani]

What's sad to consider is that even if Yellowstone or Old Taylor or Old Grand Dad continued, they probably would not be the same today as they were in their prime.

At the very least the barrelling proof has gone up considerably from what it used to be, and that means that more water is added (and more flavor diluted) to bring the final whiskey down to bottling proof.

But other things have changed too, and lots of little changes add up to large changes overall.

Oh yeah...I think the word they use for this is "Progress"...

[cowdery]

We really need to see how this shakes out, because there are still some question marks. My sense is that there is nothing wrong with the business BT bought. It wasn't sold because that business was in distress, it was sold because the parent needed cash so it sold something it had, outside its core business, that someone else was willing to pay good money for. By the same token, BT wasn't buying because it needed something, but because it had the money, saw the opportunity, didn't want the competition to grab it, and they figured that with their structure, they could run that business just as profitably as Constellation did, so they'll probably, mostly leave it alone and make some tweaks along the edges, as Beam has done with Maker's.

You can't compare any of this to what Beam did in 1987 when it acquired National because then the American whiskey business was in the dumper. Beam wasn't running its own distilleries at anything close to capacity, so it certainly didn't need two more. Since Beam bought the whole company, they had to take the things they didn't particularly want (the bourbon brands and their distilleries) to get what they wanted (DeKuyper liqueurs, believe it or not).

[ratcheer]

What I want to know is why Sazerac wanted to buy so many un-productive brands? Constellation seemed to be bragging on getting rid of them and Sazerac (Mark Brown) basically just said, "What Constellation said". Constellation said that all these brands counted for 60% of their volume but only 30% of their profits. Also that none of these brands were showing any growth potential and most of them actually have falling sales. They even loaned Sazerac the money to buy them with.

Sazerac must be thinking they're gaining something, but what?

Tim

[Rughi]

lso that none of these brands were showing any growth potential and most of them actually have falling sales. They even loaned Sazerac the money to buy them with.

Tim

I'd bet Sazerac is pretty confident with their ability to build brands and create buzz - which is the very thing Barton was least good at. BT has an exciting portfolio of what had been okay or moribund performing products - to the point that they now allocate and suspend brands just to be able to fill their orders.

My money is on Sazerac creating a lot of excitement and premium with the same juice that Barton was putting in bottom shelf handles and saying had no potential.

Roger

[OscarV]

It is to bad that there is one less bourbon distiller but if it had to happen I am glad to see that it is going to Sazerac.

They are creative as you all know with the new things that Buffalo Trace has put on the market since they got them.

[craigthom]

The press release says that the sale includes the Tom Moore distillery, but it doesn't exclude the Atlanta distillery. I don't know if it is still operating, but they've got all that rot gut white liquor, and they are either buying bulk ethanol or distilling it themselves.

The sale does include the cheap Barton vodka and gin, according to the press release. There's a whole bunch of non-whiskey booze coming Sazerac's way. Maybe they'll sell that stuff, but maybe not.

[mobourbon]

Consider that Buffalo Trace is one of the few distilleries in Kentucky and Tennessee that still has excess production capacity, so why do they need another distillery and two more bottling houses?

Chuck, Mark Brown had a meeting with all BT employees on the morning of the 12th. and he said BT is busting at the seams and will use some of Constellation's bottling facilities to lessen the load at BT.

[barturtle]

The sale does include the cheap Barton vodka and gin, according to the press release. There's a whole bunch of non-whiskey booze coming Sazerac's way. Maybe they'll sell that stuff, but maybe not.

I'd guess it would be hard to have multiple offering that carry the same brand name coming from different companies...It'd probably be hard to sell the brand without selling the whole thing...

[craigthom]

I found a DSP number (or equivalent) for the Barton Atlanta distillery (6), but I can't find anything else out.

I did discover that they own or owned the Viking Distillery in Albany, Georgia. Interestingly, the Viking Distillery introduced Georgia Moon in the late 1950s, and they were the first to put it in mason jars. Somewhere along the line Heaven Hill acquired the brand while Barton got the distillery.

[doubleblank]

I tried the old fashioned approach and contacted Kris Comstock and Mark Brown. "1792" was pretty much their response as to why do the deal. Plus the additional capacities they get in many areas. Lots of details still to be worked out with Barton. They haven't begun to think about new products that could result from the purchase.

Randy

[callmeox]

....and thusly the BOTY earns his title all over again. :cool:

Thanks for the insider info.

[shoshani]

I look forward to this just because we can finally, once and for all, get a handle on what Barton was selling...at least to the point of what BT chooses to retain.

Barton didn't do much advertising, and their web presence was minimal. They made Tom Moore in 80 proof; did they still make 100 proof? Maybe yes, maybe no, depends on who you ask. The same name could be on an 80 proof straight whiskey, a 100 proof BIB, and a blended whiskey. Distribution of Barton whiskey, at least in the Chicago area market, is flat-out abysmal. Kentucky Tavern 80, Ten High 80, VOB 80-86-90-100. That's pretty much it.

BT, by comparison, has excellent distribution. They have solid shelf space for all their brands, and the stores seem genuinely interested in featuring them.

Will prices go up on the now-former Barton brands? I wouldn't put it past them, just to keep the venture afloat. But I would predict a dollar, maybe two retail. People who know why people buy certain things are fully aware that VOB has a standing as an excellent first-choice whiskey that sells for $10 a bottle. Under BT, maybe it will go up to $12. Considering that Weller starts at $12 and that Elmer sells for $20, I seriously do not expect them to start charging premium prices for what has previously been sold more or less as "commodity" whiskey. I don't think the market will bear it.

But hey. This is whiskey, and in whiskey anything is possible.

[mozilla]

Tom Moore Bib has been on the shelves in Texas for as long as I can remember.

Also, Bartons labels don't taste that different, so, the labels that are in Chicago amount to all their flavors. The only one you didn't list is 1792. If you get that one...you were getting all the flavors of whisky that Barton made. What else could they have done better?

[trx450]

Since Beam bought the whole company, they had to take the things they didn't particularly want (the bourbon brands and their distilleries) to get what they wanted (DeKuyper liqueurs, believe it or not).

[Josh]

You're exactly right.Dekuyper is one of Beam's biggest money makers.Very low cost to produce.

Wasn't the Mr. Boston line of liqueurs a part of the Constellation/Sazerac deal too? Maybe that played a similar role here.

Anyway, now that I've calmed down, I'm cautiously optimistic. If Ten High, VOB 80 and Barton Rum leave the shelves, I doubt any tears will be shed. But I do hope that the Saz/BT folks have enough sense to keep VOB around. And hopefully those of us in the diaspora can start getting as much of it as those in the promised land currently do.

[cowdery]

The traditional threshhold in the distilled spirits for a "major" brand is one-million cases. It's still a big deal. In American whiskey, for example, only Jack Daniel's, Jim Beam and Evan Williams are million-case brands. (Multi-million, in the cases of Jim and Jack.) I think Early Times is still up there too, maybe Wild Turkey, but there aren't too many, if any, others. Maker's Mark is close.

In 1987, DeKuyper Peachtree Schnapps was a million-case brand.

When you buy a broad portfolio, you always get a mix. I would say most of the acquired brands are good, solid earners, but not generally brands you're going to build on and develop. Apparently 1792 is growing in double-digits and is in a different category, but Barton was making money with its cats-and-dogs portfolio and I'm sure Sazerac believes it can leverage them against its own line to create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Being in the cats and dogs booze business is like investing in T-bills, low risk, low return, but if the business was profitable today it probably will be just as profitable tomorrow. Most businesses, just like most investors, like to have some of that to balance out their riskier ventures.

I also went on a little nostalgia trip tonight for Barton. You can read that here.

[shoshani]

I've seen ads from National Distillers where they profiled non-whiskey spirits that they imported - Gilbey's Gin, Black & White Scotch - but no real advertising of their domestic spirits with their own name featured. Seagram's, by contrast, was advertising its antique bottle gin all over the place.

American Whiskey lovers tend to forget that, in many cases, white spirits and liqueurs/cordials are what keep the places open so they can produce whiskey.

Speaking of Gilbey's gin, I remember a horrifying print ad campaign they did in the 80s, in which the Jazz Age and the 1920s were both invoked and evoked, and claims were made with a straight face that Gilbey's was America's favorite gin during the Roaring Twenties. Considering that most gin consumed in America at that time came from bathtubs, I think that the marketing department of [insert conglomerate owner of the time] really needed some remedial history lessons.

[Attila]

Does BT make any 100 proof or more whiskeys besides Weller Antique and the two barrel proof BTACs?

Blanton's is a BT brand.

Straight from the Cask is 132 proof.

Gold is 103 proof.

Silver barely misses your threshold being at 98%.

[kickert]

Blanton's is a BT brand.

Straight from the Cask is 132 proof.

Gold is 103 proof.

Silver barely misses your threshold being at 98%.

The other 100+ are Weller Antique, ORVW10/107 and Pappy 15

As far as I know, they don't have any "Bonded" bourbons.

[birdman1099]

Don't forget RHF !!!