Closed and mothballed distilleries

[Jono]

http://www.whiskymag.com/directory/regional/usa/distilleries/

A listing of U.S. distillers....of interest, some of the closed ones:

http://www.whiskymag.com/directory/detail/majestic_distillery_mothballed.13014.html

Majestic...mothballed since 1974...however, the company has an active website: http://www.majesticdistilling.com/

I assume, like many other "distillers" the product comes from others.

http://www.majesticdistilling.com/bourbon.html

> Classic Club and Setter.....I have no experience with either.

Tortuga Rum appears to be their main product.

Other closed plants....Astor, Belmont, Old Crow, Stitzel-Weller.

I know some of the old buildings still stand...like the Kinsey site, is there any

likely rehabbing of the locations for future distilling or have they been turned into other commercial uses...warehouses, office, mfg or torn up and zoned residential etc.? Or, like Kinsey, just sitting and slowly decaying?

[craigthom]

Old Grand-Dad and Stitzel-Weller are being used for warehousing. Beam is doing something at Old Crow; I've seen trucks there.

I haven't been by in the last few months, but Old Taylor was being torn down the last time I drove by there.

The warehouses for the Seagram's distillery in Shively have been converted for other use. These are beautiful brick warehouses with art deco accents.

[mozilla]

The warehouses for the Seagram's distillery in Shively have been converted for other use. These are beautiful brick warehouses with art deco accents.

They are owned by a company that contracts out space for archived file storage. I wonder if the papers come out smelling of whisky?

[craigthom]

You know, I spoke to someone last week that works for that file storage company, and she said that it smelled a lot like whiskey before they got the ricks out. Now it doesn't.

I've been in one of them, in an area where offices had been built, but I didn't smell anything whiskey-like. I didn't get to look around because, as you can imagine, security is well-enforced at a company that sells security to their customers.

[trx450]

Old Grand-Dad and Stitzel-Weller are being used for warehousing. Beam is doing something at Old Crow; I've seen trucks there.

I haven't been by in the last few months, but Old Taylor was being torn down the last time I drove by there.

The warehouses for the Seagram's distillery in Shively have been converted for other use. These are beautiful brick warehouses with art deco accents.

The Old Grand Dad faciltiy is still very active.No more distilling there,but we do warehouse,bottle and ship.

Beam still uses the Old Crow warehouses for barrel storage.

I've heard,but not sure on this.That the only buildings being torn down at Old Taylor are the ones that are beyond repair and that they are going to restore the castle at the front of the facility.

[shoshani]

The Old Grand Dad faciltiy is still very active.No more distilling there,but we do warehouse,bottle and ship.

"We". Sounds like we have a Beam person on board. Welcome. You'll hear no end of nice things said about Knob Creek and Old Grand-Dad (86 and BIB), and the occasional wish expressed that Beam Black would get its proof upped back to 90, both your rye whiskeys get pushed to 100 at least in a special bottling, etc.

Good place to be if you're curious as to what we think of what's inside any bottle.

[mozilla]

The Old Grand Dad faciltiy is still very active.No more distilling there,but we do warehouse,bottle and ship.

Beam still uses the Old Crow warehouses for barrel storage.

I've heard,but not sure on this.That the only buildings being torn down at Old Taylor are the ones that are beyond repair and that they are going to restore the castle at the front of the facility.

Are there any hard rules as to what labels come from which facilities? Or are the batches so large at Beam that every label gets whisky from all facilities?

Is Beam using different yeasts or other factors to keep some of the old labels with their own profiles?

[trx450]

"

We". Sounds like we have a Beam person on board. Welcome. You'll hear no end of nice things said about Knob Creek and Old Grand-Dad (86 and BIB), and the occasional wish expressed that Beam Black would get its proof upped back to 90, both your rye whiskeys get pushed to 100 at least in a special bottling, etc.

Good place to be if you're curious as to what we think of what's inside any bottle.

Thanks and glad to be here.Knob Creek is probably my favorite of all Beam distillates with Old Grand Dad 114 a close 2nd.

Are there any hard rules as to what labels come from which facilities? Or are the batches so large at Beam that every label gets whisky from all facilities?

Is Beam using different yeasts or other factors to keep some of the old labels with their own profiles?

I really don't know if they have any rules about which label is bottled at each plant,but i will say that all of the premium and more popular brands are bottled at Clermont...Bookers,Bakers,Knob Creek,Basil Hayden's,and pretty much all Beam labels.The Old Grand Dad location bottles most of the less expensive brands (Crow,Taylor,Old Overholt,Bourbon Deluxe,Canadian Club,Kessler, some Dekuyper travelers and many more vodkas, tequilla's etc etc) and deals with most of the imports( courvousier,Sauza,El Tesoro).The Cincy location is all Dekuyper as far as i know.

I really don't know much about the distilling process at Beam.I do know that all Beam distillates are distilled at Clermont and either warehoused/bottled there or shipped to Old Grand Dad to be warehoused/bottled there.

[shoshani]

I really don't know much about the distilling process at Beam.I do know that all Beam distillates are distilled at Clermont and either warehoused/bottled there or shipped to Old Grand Dad to be warehoused/bottled there.

Beam doesn't distill at Boston anymore?

[trx450]

Beam doesn't distill at Boston anymore?

I forgot all about the Booker Noe distillery.All we ever hear about in Frankfort is Clermont.I really don't know which distillate comes from which distillery.

[craigthom]

When I was at Buffalo Trace before the festival I saw your womens barrel rolling team practicing. That's how I knew whiskey was aging at Old Grand-Dad; otherwise the barrel rolling team would be from there.

[cowdery]

I was told once by someone in a position to know that Booker Noe (Boston) whiskey is pretty much all bottled as Jim Beam white, which is how about 80% of the whiskey Beam makes is sold. Everything else (Knob, Booker's, Grand-Dad, the ryes) comes out of the stills and warehouses at Clermont. The bottom-shelf "cats and dogs" (Crow, Taylor, etc.) may come out of Booker Noe too; either one, really, as what gets bottled as the commodity brands is the whiskey that's rejected for Jim Beam and the premium brands.

Logically, since Booker Noe has no bottling and Frankfort has no distilling, most of the whiskey from Booker Noe is going to Frankfort for bottling. Beam has several other warehousing locations, mostly in the Bardstown area, so whiskey from there could be going to either bottling location, but it wouldn't make much sense to drive whiskey from Clermont to Frankfort to bottle it there, unless there's some special handling need that Frankfort can do and Clermont can't.

Clermont also bottles some Canadian Club, as I've seen it being done. It appears that anything "special," like Knob and Booker's needing a wax dip, and Booker's needing a box, is done at Clermont, although it has been years since I've seen the operation at Frankfort and I know they have been upgrading that facility.

Clermont also has the jazzy, blindingly fast machine for bottling 1.75 L bottles that instead of dropping bottles into a case, actually wraps the case around the bottles. Really something to see.

Beam makes two bourbon formulas, essentially Jim Beam and Old Grand-Dad, the difference being that OGD uses a different yeast and has about twice as much rye in the mash bill. Then they use different barrel entry proofs for the Small Batchers, and put them in specific warehouse locations based on how long they are supposed to age.

They also do the minis (50ml) at Clermont.

The bottling area at Clermont is rather small and doesn't seem to have much, if any, room to expand so I suspect Frankfort has more capacity overall.

[shoshani]

I was told once by someone in a position to know that Booker Noe (Boston) whiskey is pretty much all bottled as Jim Beam white, which is how about 80% of the whiskey Beam makes is sold. Everything else (Knob, Booker's, Grand-Dad, the ryes) comes out of the stills and warehouses at Clermont. The bottom-shelf "cats and dogs" (Crow, Taylor, etc.) may come out of Booker Noe too; either one, really, as what gets bottled as the commodity brands is the whiskey that's rejected for Jim Beam and the premium brands.

[mozilla]

Thanks for the update, Chuck.

Even though I don't support Beam products...I am still interested in the goings on in the company.

[cowdery]

Just out of curiosity, where does this put the other Beam expressions - ie, Choice, White 7YO, and Black? Are those primarily from Boston as well, or do those come from Clermont make?

...I'm surprised that whoever talked to you trusted you with this. Beam is legendary for their secrecy about everything...

It was said to a tour group of about 15 straightbourbon folks a couple of years ago. The speaker worked at Clermont so was, to some extent, just expressing his pride in his own operation. The statement may have been over-broad, but it was that Boston basically makes 4-year-old white label and Clermont makes everything else.

Although Beam is notorious for secrecy, some of that is a cover for ignorance, as few people in Deerfield have any idea what goes on in Kentucky. The closer you get to the actual production people, the easier it is to get straight answers. Booker, of course, was famous for his frankness, which his corporate handlers tried in vain to control. Fred is good that way too. If he's not supposed to talk about something he'll say so, but he doesn't dissemble. Most of the other production people, even the managers, are the same way.

As I always tell the bosses there, I'll get the information, that's not a problem, I'd just like to get it officially.

[trx450]

The bottling area at Clermont is rather small and doesn't seem to have much, if any, room to expand so I suspect Frankfort has more capacity overall.

That sounds right.Frankfort has 7 operating bottling lines,but not sure on the number of cases bottled per day.We have shipped a million cases per month a few times,but that is counting imports.

I've only been there a short time and one the wierdest things was that you hardly ever see any Beam label at Frankfort.The only ones we have are Beam white 750 travelers,1.75 plastic,and the 100ml bottles.

Thanks for the great info.I never knew Beam had 2 different formulas except maybe for Beam Rye and Old Overholt.I always just figured it was the same whiskey just, different age and proof.

[cowdery]

So you're not running glass 750s of Jim White 4-year-old?

I am right that there's no bottling in Boston, aren't I?

Somewhere, there must be a couple of lines that run nothing but glass 750s of white label 4-year-old all day every day.

[craigthom]

So do you have one of those machines that puffs up the PET "test tubes" into full-sized bottles, or do they come in already formed? Off to the plastic bottle thread for another data point.

[trx450]

So you're not running glass 750s of Jim White 4-year-old?

I am right that there's no bottling in Boston, aren't I?

Somewhere, there must be a couple of lines that run nothing but glass 750s of white label 4-year-old all day every day.

No,we don't bottle the Beam 750 glass at Frankfort.We bottle Old Grand Dad 86 and BIB 750 glass there,but no Beam White label.

As far as i know there isn't any bottling done at Boston.I'm thinking all of the bottling is done either at Clermont or Frankfort.

Jim Beam bourbon is a million case seller per year correct? The newest bottling line at Frankfort can bottle 20k plus cases per day,so maybe they have upgraded some of the lines at Clermont.

So do you have one of those machines that puffs up the PET "test tubes" into full-sized bottles, or do they come in already formed? Off to the plastic bottle thread for another data point.

The plastic bottles come in already formed.The plastic " traveler" bottles come in the case they are to be bottled in and the 1.75 liter bottles come in on pallets.

[cowdery]

The Jim Beam bourbon brand sells about 6 million cases a year, worldwide. The vast majority of that is white label 4-year-old.

[The Boozer]

The Jim Beam bourbon brand sells about 6 million cases a year, worldwide. The vast majority of that is white label 4-year-old.

Chuck, curious to know what are the other case sales numbers from some of the other producers and brands. Is there a web site to go to?

TJ

[cowdery]

Chuck, curious to know what are the other case sales numbers from some of the other producers and brands. Is there a web site to go to?

TJ

You can get that data if you're willing to pay for it, which I'm not, but if you troll around you'll find bits and pieces, somebody will mention it in an annual report or a trade journal article. If I'm looking for something in particular, I might Google "Jim Beam" and "sales" or "case sales." Like any search, you try different things and see what pops up. To make sure it's reliable, I look for something that actually comes from the company, like an annual report or press release. For all I know, it might be 6.6 million, or 7.2 million, but at least 6 is in the ballpark for comparison purposes.

Sometimes I just ask somebody in the producer's brand management or PR department. They usually will tell you.

It's probably not something most of the people here care about, but I've always been interested in the business side. Some people might be surprised by the differences. Jim Beam white label is around six million. Jack Daniel's is even bigger. Compare that to Maker's Mark, which is less than a million, or Old Forester, which is about 120,000. Some of the limited release stuff we all love might be 2,000. All of the A.H. Hirsch ever bottled was less than 4,000 cases.

Jack Daniel's keeps the exact numbers secret when they do a commemorate bottling. I would think that someone who wants something because it's rare would want to know how rare. When Maker's did the dipped bottles in the colors of the different NFL teams, they did release the numbers, and it ranged from several thousand for some teams to several hundred for others.

[The Boozer]

Thanks Chuck,

Thanks. Being in business, I also find the business end interesting. Have trolled around but the info is sketchy out there. Came across an article / site that stated Beam barrels on average about 700 barrels a day. Best day was over 1,000 barrels. Also indicated that they get about 26 cases per barrel. Don't know if this is just white are all Beam brands. At 6,000,000 cases per year and 26 cases per barrel, simple math means Beam is running about 330 days a year at full production. These are obviously very "rough" numbers but does indicate that the bourbon industry is pretty strong. 72 million bottles of Beam out there is a whole lotta bourbon. (assuming 12 bottles per case)

TJ

[cowdery]

Remember that Beam operates two distilleries in Kentucky, three if you count Maker's Mark.

Yield per barrel varies with age, as the longer the whiskey ages, the more the volume of liquid in the barrel declines, so the yield on a barrel of 9-year-old Knob Creek is much less than the yield on a barrel of 4-year-old Jim Beam white.

[boone]

Remember that Beam operates two distilleries in Kentucky, three if you count Maker's Mark.

Yield per barrel varies with age, as the longer the whiskey ages, the more the volume of liquid in the barrel declines, so the yield on a barrel of 9-year-old Knob Creek is much less than the yield on a barrel of 4-year-old Jim Beam white.

The Booker Noe Distillery in Boston has been under expansion and renovations for quite awhile. No distilling there. Some of the worker's were laid off and several were sent to Clermont Bottling. Bottling at Clermont has been reduced to a 4 day work week. They will know this week if things get better or worse.