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To plagiarize a bit from our political arena, there appears to be a number of people on this site with BTDS, Buffalo Trace Derangement Syndrome

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As an addendum to my previous long winded post, here’s another one.    While up in Wisconsin with my wife for a couple of days last week, I of course did manage to stop in to at least a coup

You are venturing into tin foil hat territory here.

So all of the bloggers have their BTAC samples and they’re starting to post their reviews. They’re doing their thing to make a big deal out of it. And.........I don’t fucking care one bit.  I’m s

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Not even going to be in the country this year to make an effort.

 

Last year my few remaining honest stores turned to the gouging side anyway.

 

So long as they keep fillin' them barrels at breakneck speed, I'm fine with it.

 

My time will come again. Plus, I still have a few in the bunker.

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Love the discussion on this thread.  

 

1 - Generally my preferred proof seems to be between 100-120 so the new Stagg proof sounds great to me.  That said, the really well crafted high proofers generally drink lower anyway.

 

2 - The barrel info was nice to have and as someone who has only been into bourbon since 2017 can say that I do find it disturbing that the information is just suddenly gone this year after being provided the prior two years.  No, BT is not required to provide, but once they set that precedent its frustrating when it just is unilaterally removed.   My far fetched theory is a bit less nefarious though.  I think BT enjoys having all these coveted and chased bottles.  Perhaps barrel counts are finally starting to increase to the point where they do not want everyone to know how many more bottles will be circulated this year and thus keep demand at its highest?  Total speculation, but this would make it in line with Pappy which I believe has never released bottle/barrel numbers.  I also suspect the releases for PVW are much larger then the average person would think.

 

3 - While on the topic, I am generally a big fan of BT.  Not their fault that they make exceptional bourbon (they really do) and that the masses have gone crazy to the point where everything is allocated.  I actually applaud them for not increasing prices during this time.  However, I have three grievances.  First, Antique.  I am flat out angry at a 250% price increase.  Not Cool BT.  Second, the new Weller Full Proof.  Highly anticipated and sought after release that most stores will be lucky to get a 6 bottle case of and you are giving some places full private barrel picks??   Again, not cool.  Third, and this one may be premature, but my LS and the distributor have not heard anything about a 2019 release of CYPB.  It very well may still be on the way there is usually no advance warning before other annual releases like W12 or EHBP so they might just be handing it the same way.  But IF there is no release this year it would be the first time I am aware of that BT is being flat out dishonest.  Again, this one may be premature, but we are a few months past the time it was released last year.  

 

Please don't kill me Joe  . . . 

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I don't think they're being dishonest.

 

But I certainly do miss the data. Even when I couldn't get a bottle, I liked reading about how production was going. It was part of the story.

 

I refuse to get my panties in a knot about BT wheaters. Supply will eventually catch up with demand after this year's expansions. I love the stuff, but I love other stuff as well.

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21 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

I don't think they're being dishonest.

Agree and did not say they were.  Just if there was no CYPB this year it would be a direct contradiction to what was disclosed last year at the initial launch.  All that said I actually think there will be a 2019 batch and it will just arrive when it does with no prior fanfare.  Just like EHBP, RHF, ETL etc . . .  

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If you’re not at least little bit suspicious what the reasoning behind them not disclosing the barrel count for BTAC than you’re being dishonest with yourself. I don’t think it’s something as malicious as watering down barrels or anything. Possibly due to strained inventory there’s significantly less barrels and they don’t want this information out there. Perhaps they’ve become much less selective on the barrels they choose and are basically taking almost anything available as MB1 and dumping it into GTS that meets the age criteria. Who really knows but less information leads to speculation.

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Since we’re speculating, if they truly have a significantly smaller number of bottles available this year why wouldn’t they shout it out loud and double down on the pricing?  I would!

 

Doubling profit without increasing cost, as no added steps/extra bottles/shipping/etc are being required, seems to make more sense to me than watering down your stud lines, which could have a disastrous result on all your brands for years to come.  This is business 101, that a kid selling lemonade can even relate to.

 

So, I think I’m being pretty honest with myself when I say I don’t really care (at least at this point).  

 

Why?  Because I don’t think that a 500 (or 5000 for that matter) bottle increase, or decrease is really going to make a discernible difference in the average consumers ability to gain access to this release in this hyper ‘jacked-up’ market.  That is, unless you’re looking to buy an overpriced pour at your local watering hole....?

 

...or, Lottery line camping, anyone?

 

:)Peace out.

 

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29 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Since we’re speculating, if they truly have a significantly smaller number of bottles available this year why wouldn’t they shout it out loud and double down on the pricing?  I would!

 

Doubling profit without increasing cost, as no added steps/extra bottles/shipping/etc are being required, seems to make more sense to me than watering down your stud lines, which could have a disastrous result on all your brands for years to come.  This is business 101, that a kid selling lemonade can even relate to.

 

So, I think I’m being pretty honest with myself when I say I don’t really care (at least at this point).  

 

Why?  Because I don’t think that a 500 (or 5000 for that matter) bottle increase, or decrease is really going to make a discernible difference in the average consumers ability to gain access to this release in this hyper ‘jacked-up’ market.  That is, unless you’re looking to buy an overpriced pour at your local watering hole....?

 

...or, Lottery line camping, anyone?

 

:)Peace out.

 

Yup.

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8 hours ago, Paddy said:

Since we’re speculating, if they truly have a significantly smaller number of bottles available this year why wouldn’t they shout it out loud and double down on the pricing?  I would!

 

Doubling profit without increasing cost, as no added steps/extra bottles/shipping/etc are being required, seems to make more sense to me than watering down your stud lines, which could have a disastrous result on all your brands for years to come.  This is business 101, that a kid selling lemonade can even relate to.

 

So, I think I’m being pretty honest with myself when I say I don’t really care (at least at this point).  

 

Why?  Because I don’t think that a 500 (or 5000 for that matter) bottle increase, or decrease is really going to make a discernible difference in the average consumers ability to gain access to this release in this hyper ‘jacked-up’ market.  That is, unless you’re looking to buy an overpriced pour at your local watering hole....?

 

...or, Lottery line camping, anyone?

 

:)Peace out.

 

Totally agree!    I'll be too busy to join the 'camp out' this lifetime, I'm afraid.

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Okay, I just couldn’t stand idly by any more. No, it’s not what you think. I won’t go into a rant just yet. However, for all you nay sayers, conspiracy theorists and BT bashers, I sent  an email to BT to try and get some information. I didn’t send my email to Mark Brown, the CEO this time though. I figured that with all that’s going on at BT right now, he’s probably still pretty busy. I also don’t want to abuse a friendship by going to that well too many times. Know what I mean. <_<  If and when I receive a reply, I’ll post here. Maybe. :mellow:

 

Joe

 

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On 9/24/2019 at 2:28 PM, Bob_Loblaw said:

Love the discussion on this thread.  

 

1 - Generally my preferred proof seems to be between 100-120 so the new Stagg proof sounds great to me.  That said, the really well crafted high proofers generally drink lower anyway.

 

2 - The barrel info was nice to have and as someone who has only been into bourbon since 2017 can say that I do find it disturbing that the information is just suddenly gone this year after being provided the prior two years.  No, BT is not required to provide, but once they set that precedent its frustrating when it just is unilaterally removed.   My far fetched theory is a bit less nefarious though.  I think BT enjoys having all these coveted and chased bottles.  Perhaps barrel counts are finally starting to increase to the point where they do not want everyone to know how many more bottles will be circulated this year and thus keep demand at its highest?  Total speculation, but this would make it in line with Pappy which I believe has never released bottle/barrel numbers.  I also suspect the releases for PVW are much larger then the average person would think.

 

3 - While on the topic, I am generally a big fan of BT.  Not their fault that they make exceptional bourbon (they really do) and that the masses have gone crazy to the point where everything is allocated.  I actually applaud them for not increasing prices during this time.  However, I have three grievances.  First, Antique.  I am flat out angry at a 250% price increase.  Not Cool BT.  Second, the new Weller Full Proof.  Highly anticipated and sought after release that most stores will be lucky to get a 6 bottle case of and you are giving some places full private barrel picks??   Again, not cool.  Third, and this one may be premature, but my LS and the distributor have not heard anything about a 2019 release of CYPB.  It very well may still be on the way there is usually no advance warning before other annual releases like W12 or EHBP so they might just be handing it the same way.  But IF there is no release this year it would be the first time I am aware of that BT is being flat out dishonest.  Again, this one may be premature, but we are a few months past the time it was released last year.  

 

Please don't kill me Joe  . . . 

Did you try the CYPB last year? I did not understand the hype at all. It tasted like totally fine OWA to me but nothing more special than some regular shelf OWA I’ve had in the past or plenty of barrel picks I’ve had (yes I know these are few and far between these days and sell our fast). I truly do not understand how anyone paid the gouging and/or secondary prices that were rampant for CYPB, unless it was collectors that insist on having every release on their shelves and have plenty of $ to waste etc.

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So all of the bloggers have their BTAC samples and they’re starting to post their reviews. They’re doing their thing to make a big deal out of it. And.........I don’t fucking care one bit. 

I’m so done with the overblown hype. 

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7 hours ago, flahute said:

So all of the bloggers have their BTAC samples and they’re starting to post their reviews. They’re doing their thing to make a big deal out of it. And.........I don’t fucking care one bit. 

I’m so done with the overblown hype. 

^^^^THIS^^^^ is right about where I am, as well, Steve.    If a bottle turns up at near-retail-price, I'll certainly be a buyer of one of the three which I favor (I have no illusions of getting more than one bottle); but I am absolutely not searching, entering lotteries, waiting in lines, or going to overpay.     I've always enjoyed the pours I've had of the GTS and WLW, as well as the Handy... the others usually; but not quite as consistent for my taste buddies.

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1 hour ago, Richnimrod said:

^^^^THIS^^^^ is right about where I am, as well, Steve.    If a bottle turns up at near-retail-price, I'll certainly be a buyer of one of the three which I favor (I have no illusions of getting more than one bottle); but I am absolutely not searching, entering lotteries, waiting in lines, or going to overpay.     I've always enjoyed the pours I've had of the GTS and WLW, as well as the Handy... the others usually; but not quite as consistent for my taste buddies.

To further expand on my thoughts: I know I will probably get a Stagg and that I'll love it. A WLW is possible but less likely. I will only get these through relationships. I know they will be good.

What I don't need is a blogger releasing reviews of the "lesser three" and then teasing with their live reviews later that night for Stagg and Weller. I can wait thank you.

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5 hours ago, flahute said:

 

What I don't need is a blogger releasing reviews of the "lesser three" and then teasing with their live reviews later that night for Stagg and Weller. I can wait thank you.

But it builds so much suspense! (Sarcasm)

 

The reviews are nice I suppose, but at the end of the day I’m buying any of them that are offered at MSRP and passing on any found at secondary regardless of how good or bad the reviews are. 

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I look at CYPB and Full Proof as great new introductions to the line, that I will be able to get LATER when the bubble bursts and I don't have to kiss someone's hind quarter to do so.

 

They're both great ideas (although I'd rather have the Full proof have at least 7yrs on it), and so long as they keep selling out they'll keep releasing 'em. 

 

That works for "future me", even if it's little use to present me.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

I look at CYPB and Full Proof as great new introductions to the line, that I will be able to get LATER when the bubble bursts and I don't have to kiss someone's hind quarter to do so.

 

I never even saw a CYPB last year. (Other than the one that I had in my hand last April at a meeting with the BT management team.) I heard through the grapevine that only around six bottles or so even made it to our region. I also heard that not one of those bottles ever saw the light of day.  <_<

 

One thing we have to deal with here is “the point system”. I can only surmise that other regions around the country have somewhat the same set up. The more you buy, the more points you get. The more points you have, the more Pappy/BTAC/Weller/LE’s you get. As I mentioned before, I was at a store last week while three sales reps were there. This subject along with others was talked about. While talking about allocations and the point system, I asked in a very vague way if everything was always on the up and up. One guy asked me, “What do you think?”  Another guy said, “ I just do what they tell me.” The third salesman just gave me “the look”. I asked “Really?” All three basically gave me a quirky grin and nod. In speaking privately with one rep later, he said that everything is mostly above board, but that what the big boss wants, the big boss gets. In other words, when it comes to a special customer, special favor, etc...  all bets are off. He also told me that so far he hadn’t heard anything about Full Proof or CYPB allocations in our area. 

 

Biba! Joe

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10 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

He also told me that so far he hadn’t heard anything about Full Proof or CYPB allocations in our area. 

 

Biba! Joe

 

What, me worry???   ?

 

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As an addendum to my previous long winded post, here’s another one. :lol:

 

While up in Wisconsin with my wife for a couple of days last week, I of course did manage to stop in to at least a couple of liquor stores. ?  One stop was great. It was a nice store with a decent selection, and fairly decent prices. Sadly, I didn’t see anything on the shelves that really interested me. So I stopped at the counter. I didn’t see anything special on the shelf behind the counter, and I asked the proverbial question, “Do you have any unicorns behind the counter?” The guy looked at me with “the look”, and before he could answer I told him, “No, I’m not stupid enough to be asking about Pappy, BTAC or Weller.” He laughed and asked, “Bourbon guy huh?” I answered yes. He said they didn’t have anything, and even if they did, the store  owner  always took care of his regular customers before putting anything special out on the shelves. I told him that I’d heard that countless times before. He nodded and said that he “knew the drill “ too. Turns out he used to work as an account rep for a large, well known spirits conglomerate. After he left there, he worked for a large liquor distributor up in Wisconsin. When I casually named the distributor, he just shook his head and said, “You know your s**t don’t you?” We both had a good laugh.Turns out the guy got fed up with all the BS in the spirits industry. He left and started his own small business. He’s working part time at the liquor store to earn a few extra bucks, and to help out his friend, the store owner. Good stuff, fun time, and honestly refreshing for a change. ?

 

Biba! Joe

 

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3 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

As an addendum to my previous long winded post, here’s another one. :lol:

 

While up in Wisconsin with my wife for a couple of days last week, I of course did manage to stop in to at least a couple of liquor stores. ?  One stop was great. It was a nice store with a decent selection, and fairly decent prices. Sadly, I didn’t see anything on the shelves that really interested me. So I stopped at the counter. I didn’t see anything special on the shelf behind the counter, and I asked the proverbial question, “Do you have any unicorns behind the counter?” The guy looked at me with “the look”, and before he could answer I told him, “No, I’m not stupid enough to be asking about Pappy, BTAC or Weller.” He laughed and asked, “Bourbon guy huh?” I answered yes. He said they didn’t have anything, and even if they did, the store  owner  always took care of his regular customers before putting anything special out on the shelves. I told him that I’d heard that countless times before. He nodded and said that he “knew the drill “ too. Turns out he used to work as an account rep for a large, well known spirits conglomerate. After he left there, he worked for a large liquor distributor up in Wisconsin. When I casually named the distributor, he just shook his head and said, “You know your s**t don’t you?” We both had a good laugh.Turns out the guy got fed up with all the BS in the spirits industry. He left and started his own small business. He’s working part time at the liquor store to earn a few extra bucks, and to help out his friend, the store owner. Good stuff, fun time, and honestly refreshing for a change. ?

 

Biba! Joe

 

Sometimes you can meet the nicest people over a Bourbon... or even just the talk of a Bourbon, eh?   Nice story, Joe.  Thanx!

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19 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

HA!   OK, 'Alfred'.... ?

Hey Rich,

 

Ya' know, only us "old guys and gals" who are still a little MAD would get that reference . . . . . . .  ?

 

TTFN,

F.

8-)

 

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New to this forum, but thought to add my 2 cents... I think the production of BTAC is way up with much more barrels available for bottling than they want to say. Ken Weber back in 2006 stated that they were increasing production every year and were growing VERY fast. If you consider BTAC, in 2018 Breaking Bourbon estimated they produced 73,000 bottles. At MSRP of $100 that is $7,300,000 in revenue for a year. BTAC gets a bit less than that, so when you think about it, BTAC is a rounding error for them (i.e. they are in the middle of a $1.2 Billion dollar expansion... making a couple million on year on BTAC will take a long-time to pay for that). BTAC (and Pappy) when it comes down to it, mainly benefit BT by being a massive advertisement that drives people to every bottle of crap they put out. "Weller
this or that is being bought at crazy rates and they have been able to raise the prices on those which they are making much more money on. Frankly, I think they are just concerned about bourbon peaking so they want to ensure they can limit the supply of BTAC  for a while so it remains a cult item and helps ensure that even if other brands see a falling off of being bought, that people continue buying their lower age products as compensation for never getting a BTAC or PVW product. By not releasing number of barrels they can release a big batch now and if they decide they can add some bottles later on or let them age into some older stuff (e.g. GTS to ER... assuming that is how it is done). On the other hand if they state the number of barrels, they are kind of giving away info that they may be afraid can come back to bite them (i.e. if you know that they are holding back a significant amount of the stuff, you are much more inclined to pass up paying above MSRP for this stuff and it means it will come down in price and lose some of the prestige, and possibly hurt sales of their lower-age products). By not stating they can easily add bottles if they are happy with the demand with no one the wiser.

 

Just my 2 cents and maybe I am wearing too much tin-foil.

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1 hour ago, matt777 said:

Just my 2 cents and maybe I am wearing too much tin-foil.

HA!    Worth every penny!   ...And . . .  never assume there is any such thing as 'too much tin foil'.     ...OR, too much Bourbon!

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fishnbowljoe

BT doesn’t have a crap ton of barrels to use on the different bottlings of the BTAC. I’m pretty sure there are a  fairly limited number of barrels that come of age, and meet the right taste profiles. I’d also say that it’s a pretty good bet that BT only bottles the BTAC once a year. They won’t do another bottling of any of the BTAC products because it’s selling well. Although I do believe theY did two variations of GTS back in 2005, one of which was KY only. 
 

I also received an answer to the email that I sent BT asking why they didn’t post the number of barrels of the BTAC this year. It’s BT’s standard practice not to release any barrel numbers from their other releases. So, they chose not to release that info for the BTAC. That’s it plain and simple. 

 

Here comes the deluge. ?

 

Joe
 

 

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