Anything generally agreed upon?

[ElasticalGomez]

4.) There are good folks here that are willing to help you get your hands on certain bottles, just ask. Another is to find a listing of stores in your area (an area within reasonable driving distance) and call around to see if they have the bottling you are looking for. I have been shocked to find out stores an hour away carry stuff not carried in my immediate area. You can always plan a road trip for a distillery tour or two.

Unfortunately here in NC we have this ABC thing. I don't quite understand it as I moved here from NYC and grew up/spent my younger years in WI & MA. My time here has been longer than intended but I've been spending my time with the assumption that none of the state's laws or idiosyncrasies need concern me since I won't be here too long. Anyway, what I DO know is that all the stores basically get or cannot get the same things. I've been to every ABC store in Chapel Hill and it's always the same.

Well, I don't know who to ask or how else to ask it but if anybody could help me get my hands on a couple bottles of PVW15 or LotB I'd be a damn happy bastard. :cool:

[cas]

dammit. i'd LOVE to check out Pappy but unfortunately NC's *amazing* ABC laws prevent me from doing so.

You can actually work a deal with the NC ABC board - or at least you could when I lived there. If I remember correctly it means buying a certain minimum amount, which is something you could swing with a local restaurant (Crooks Corner, maybe?). Alternatively, you can drive down to Columbia or Myrtle Beach or a larger town in SC and come up with a bottle of Pappys.

Craig

[ElasticalGomez]

You can actually work a deal with the NC ABC board - or at least you could when I lived there. If I remember correctly it means buying a certain minimum amount, which is something you could swing with a local restaurant (Crooks Corner, maybe?).

Craig

Good idea! I'll have to look into this.

[ggilbertva]

Scott,

I'll second the advise to travel to SC. I've done some shopping in MB and the stores there generally have a good selection including most of the Van Winkle lines. I too live in an ABC state so I travel to DC or MD to find the stuff the state stores do not carry. In fact, I can't tell you the last time I purchased anything from a VA ABC. VA has some of the highest prices on liquor so it's actually more economical to travel out of state to do my purchasing.

Now, you stated in your original post on how to develop your palate. The down and dirty is to just try numerous brands of bourbon and see what jumps out at you. What I would suggest is that your collection contain selections from each distillery as each one has it's own "profile" that you will begin to pick up as you drink. For instance, Oscar mentioned "grassy" and Brad mentioned "musty" when describing some BT products. Heaven Hill has a mint or menthol quality to it. As part of your collection make sure you have a wheated bourbon (e.g. Weller Antique, Lot , a rye bourbon (Four Roses, Old Forester) and a rye whiskey (Baby Saz, Thomas H. Handy). If you really want to get serious, try smelling different items that folks state they are picking up in bourbon or whiskey. For instance, wet wood, chocolate, cinammon, apple, orange, vanilla, maple syrup, licorice, etc. Most of these things you should have around the house. Give them a whiff to freshen your memory on these smells. Another thing you may want to do is purchase a package of mixed dried fruit.

Have fun and report back what you find. It's a fun experience.

[TNbourbon]

Crotchety Old Bastard here:

• Tastes change. My tastes have changed since my original acquaintance with bourbon, yours will change, we all change.
  
• Some things don't change. Cowdery knows more about American whiskey than any of us. Bourbon comes in two standards, good and better. The first batch of Woodford Reserve Four Grain is the exception that proves the last rule.
  
• Bourbon enjoyment is a study in evanescence. What we like today may be different tomorrow, but we'll always seek to relive today. The past is gone, except when we can get ahold of a bottle of Very Old Fitzgerald BIB 8yo that no longer exists and relive our fathers' and grandfathers' nightcaps. Today is bourbon's Golden Age -- unless we can get our hands on a dusty old bottle!
  

My experience is probably different, but not much varied, from that of many here. My first 'favorite' was W.L. Weller Special Reserve 7yo/90 proof, and I still like it. And, I tend to favor wheaters over rye-recipe. But, my favorite Pappy 23 was a rye-recipe, pre-Stitzel-Weller from a green bottle filled in Lawrenceburg, and I love almost all straight ryes, though I generally don't gravitate toward high-rye bourbons.

I think Jack Daniel's is okay mixer, but I don't buy it because it's way more expensive than it ought to be for what it is. Dickel is a better buy, but only until you can't find 'pre-hiatus' anymore (then, stick with Kentucky!). Same with Maker's Mark, though on a higher plane (and the bit about Kentucky).

Older is better when judging examples of a constant label over many years. However, when comparing new labels with no-longer-existing ones from many years ago, the reverse is often true. You just have to taste to find out, though.

Old Grand-Dad benefits from time in the bottle after opening.

Basil Hayden's would be a premium brand at $25. At $40 and 80 proof, it's a wanna-be-premium shelf queen.

Rittenhouse BIB rye is worth searching (and waiting) for.

Whatever anyone says, Rare Breed is a waste of good, 12yo Wild Turkey!

[LarryG]

Old Grand-Dad benefits from time in the bottle after opening.

How much time? I really like OGD BIB, but I'm not adverse to making it better.

Whatever anyone says, Rare Breed is a waste of good, 12yo Wild Turkey!

Would you mind elaborating on that? Bottle it a lower proof, maybe, so it'll stretch a little farther?

Thanks,

Larry

[ElasticalGomez]

Just an fyi...but I'm trying WT101 right now and damn if I wasn't surprised! (well, not completely after all the words here). It's got a bit more of a kick to it than I'd prefer, but it's got many of the same flavor profiles as I've come to enjoy from Blanton's. Is that weird? I notice similar darker, maple flavors. Darker can't be the right word. I wonder what it is I'm trying to say there?

*sigh*

It is a pain being such a goddamn n00b.

[ILLfarmboy]

Rare Breed in a mixture of 6, 8 and some 12 year old stock that's blended (with no water added 'post dump') to achieve a specific flavor profile.

Please, let's not encourage bottling at lower proofs.

[kickert]

It is a pain being such a goddamn n00b.

It took me about 3-6 months perusing this site and about 30 bourbons under my belt to have a feel for what I was talking about. I am still a newbie on most subjects.

[Stu]

It took me about 3-6 months perusing this site and about 30 bourbons under my belt to have a feel for what I was talking about. I am still a newbie on most subjects.

Over the past three years I've probably tried at least 100 different bourbons and I'm still not sure I know what I'm talking about!

[ILLfarmboy]

I would in fact give up Rare Breed if I was assured that the 12 years old stocks that go into it wouldn't just be shipped overseas and that younger stocks destined to be part of Rare Breed would continue to reach 12 years of age and be bottled for the domestic market.

[Buffalo Bill]

A lot of people here have stated that Buffalo Trace is "grassy".

I don't care for it.

Buffalo Trace is usually grassy and piney, but I've had others that were quite feminine, almost perfumed.

To answer the question: Anything Van Winkle or from BT is always tops in my book. BB

[LarryG]

I would in fact give up Rare Breed if I was assured that the 12 years old stocks that go into it wouldn't just be shipped overseas and that younger stocks destined to be part of Rare Breed would continue to reach 12 years of age and be bottled for the domestic market.

That's essentially what I meant, although I grant you I didn't express the thought well at all. Bottle at least some of the 12yo at WT's traditional 101 proof, rather than barrel proof as in RB, and make it available in more markets.

Is the 8yo also export-only? I know that I've never seen any, but that's more a reflection of limited opportunity than anything else.

Larry

[ggilbertva]

That's essentially what I meant, although I grant you I didn't express the thought well at all. Bottle at least some of the 12yo at WT's traditional 101 proof, rather than barrel proof as in RB, and make it available in more markets.

Is the 8yo also export-only? I know that I've never seen any, but that's more a reflection of limited opportunity than anything else.

Larry

Larry,

The 8 year and 12 year are export only. I have a bottle of each and they are pretty good.....significantly better than the domestic 101 offering. I can still find the 8 year old expression here in my area but of course they are dusty bottles. I would love it if WT offered an age stated 101 again......in the meantime, I have to be happy with the occasional dusty bottle I pick up.

[barturtle]

..That StraightBourbon.com is the largest, oldest and best American Whiskey forum on the web.

[dean_martin]

my apologies in advance for the length:

from one newb living in an ABC state to another, you gotta eventually cross state lines. I have the AL ABC price list saved to my computer in pdf from the ABC website. I studied the list then found out what others here were/are saying about the stuff available at ABC stores. Not all ABC stores stock everything on the list so I took a couple of trips out of town. That process didn't take too long.

Fortunately, I live on the AL/FL line. I've found almost everything people are talking about here, but it took searching 7 stores in the P'cola, FL area. I've met some nice folks along the way. One store owner in particular took me on a "tour" of his bourbon aisle and ordered Sazerac Rye so I want have to drive 20 minutes farther south to get it from another store. (After asking permission, I brought in the bottle I had just bought from another store so he could see it. To my surprise he was very appreciative. Apparently, distributors have a lot of influence on what store owners decide to stock.) Another store owner took my name and number and promised she'd call me when she had more George T. Stagg on the way.

BTW, Lot B is my bourbon reference so far. My goal now is to find a $30-or-less bourbon that I enjoy as much. Based on regional price differences, I may be looking at $35. I've already found Sazerac Rye for under $30 and its a fave too. I started an inventory list. So far I have 7 open bourbons, 1 open rye, 13 unopened bourbons (hoping for a real gem or two among them) and 2 unopened ryes. Between the open and unopen, 3 are duplicates. I found my first discontinued bottle over the weekend - Frankfort OCPR 13yo. So far, I find "the search" exhilirating and I haven't turned up nary "bad" whiskey. Managing the budget is the only stressor.

[StraightBoston]

BTW, Lot B is my bourbon reference so far. My goal now is to find a $30-or-less bourbon that I enjoy as much. Based on regional price differences, I may be looking at $35.

Keep an eye out for Old Weller Antique 7/107. (More kick than Lot B at a much lower price.) Weller SR is a smoother alternative.

[dean_martin]

Keep an eye out for Old Weller Antique 7/107. (More kick than Lot B at a much lower price.) Weller SR is a smoother alternative.

Have'em both. They get so much good press here that the Weller SR was one of my first pickups. I had to find the Antique at a different store. I'm waiting 'til I get to the last few pours of the SR, then I'm opening the Antique. I usually end with a pour of SR when going through my open bottles. Not sure how that came about, but it has definitely found a place in my cabinet. It's quite a bargain too!

[kickert]

Have'em both. They get so much good press here that the Weller SR was one of my first pickups. I had to find the Antique at a different store. I'm waiting 'til I get to the last few pours of the SR, then I'm opening the Antique. I usually end with a pour of SR when going through my open bottles. Not sure how that came about, but it has definitely found a place in my cabinet. It's quite a bargain too!

Weller 12 matches the age and proof (and obviously the distillery and mashbill). I actually prefer it by a hair.