Noob question - So how many active distilleries are there, really?

[Attila]

I was under the impression that KBD started distilling again and would have KSBW available in the next couple of years. This is wrong?

[craigthom]

If an independent (like VW) wants to create a line of product does he bring his mash bill and production requirements to a large capacity distiller and then work with them to get a product he wants? That is a different process than only selecting barrels from specific warehouses to match a taste profile isn't it?

How does an independent protect his personal mash bill recipe and family yeast from the large corporate distillery if he has it distilled there? Or is too much made of those things?

[sku]

I don't think this got answered, but maybe it did and I missed it.

The answer is that there aren't any independents contract distilling their own whiskey at large capacity distilleries, at least as far as I know. They don't use their own mash bills or yeasts.

The process is exactly selecting barrels that match the desired flavor profile. This shows how much variation there is in the barrel.

What about Bulleit. That's essentially this situation, no?

[cowdery]

Bulleit was always a recipe Four Roses was making anyway. It is one of the ten.

Some contract distilling is done using a proprietary recipe, but you're better off with a recipe that's already been proven in that distillery. The distillery, the water, that's all part of the whiskey, but it's specific to the place, not the recipe.

Some people have whiskey made to their specifications, others buy one of the distillery's standard recipes as new make and age it themselves, others buy aged whiskey and bottle it, others buy aged whiskey in bottles, ready for market. All kinds of transactions happen.

A good word that covers all types is bulk whiskey sales.

Only Angostura is only in bulk sales. Heaven Hill probably does the most bulk sales, followed by Tom Moore, Brown-Forman, and Jim Beam. Buffalo Trace used to be way into it, not so much now, but they do have some relationships that are similar to bulk sales contracts, such as they have with Van Winkle. Four Roses still has on-going contractual obligations to Diageo from the sale. Anybody might sell bulk on occasion, as I said.

[barturtle]

Bulleit was always a recipe Four Roses was making anyway. It is one of the ten.

This is at least partly inaccurate, as Bulleit was first produced using Ancient Age/Buffalo Trace stock (I'm not sure if it was before or after the renaming)

[cowdery]

I was replying in the context of the question, referring to it as contract distilled to Diageo's specifications, when in reality Diageo is buying one of the standard recipes Four Roses was making before Bulleit got there, which is I think the context in which most people would have chosen to regard the answer, and not as a reference to Bulleit's previous life as a completely different whiskey in a completely different package, when neither Seagrams nor Diageo was in the picture. I mean, come on. Don't do me like that.

[sku]

I was under the impression that KBD started distilling again and would have KSBW available in the next couple of years. This is wrong?

Is this true? Did they used to distill? If so, what did they make and where?

[cowdery]

Is this true? Did they used to distill? If so, what did they make and where?

I have seen no evidence that it is true. They have reportedly done some test runs with some of their equipment. I haven't heard anything even remotely reliable about them going into production, let alone having something they made ready to sell.

Wishful thinking.

Remember, that distillery has been just about ready to start producing again ever since it stopped producing more than 20 years ago. I genuinely wish them all the best, but don't hold your breath.

In this economic climate, remembering how much the category's growth depends on exports, even something like CMDK reopening is hardly a sure thing. You just can't say. Once you start a distillery, you have to keep it going. That takes cash, lots of it.

[barturtle]

I mean, come on. Don't do me like that.

Normally, I wouldn't, but there was that word "always" which is nearly always a bad idea:cool:

[Josh]

Alright, so here's my current list of micros making and selling whiskey in the US. I did not include projects that may be making or planning to distill but are not yet selling their own whiskey (Dryfly, High West, etc.)

Michigan

New Holland Brewing Co.: Zepplin Bend Straight Malt Whiskey.

I had no idea that New Holland makes a malt whiskey! That's very cool. I'll have to make it over there some time, or find somewhere closer where they sell it.