Sazerac acquires Old Taylor.

[cowdery]

And in return, Beam gets Effen Vodka.

I've always felt that Beam should either do something with Old Taylor, Old Crow and Old Grand-Dad--the venerable bourbons it acquired when it bought National Distillers in 1987--or sell them. Now they have, at least one of them.

E. H. Taylor had a fraught relationship with the distillery now known as Buffalo Trace, Old Taylor's new home. BT has been making some interesting moves, with the acquisition of the Constellation/Barton portfolio (which is how it got Effen) and the Tom Moore Distillery, but they haven't said much about what they intend to do with them. I know they looked at buying the Old Taylor Distillery at one point but ultimately passed.

I'm interested to see what happens next.

By the way, the announcement came in what was primarily a press release, from Beam, about Beam acquiring Effen which--and this is hilarious--they claim is named after the Dutch word for 'smooth.' Yeah, right!

[MikeK]

Did Sazerac buy just the name/label, or the actual distillery property as well? I didn't think Beam owned the distillery, I thought it was owned by someone else.

[Josh]

And in return, Beam gets Effen Vodka.

I've always felt that Beam should either do something with Old Taylor, Old Crow and Old Grand-Dad--the venerable bourbons it acquired when it bought National Distillers in 1987--or sell them. Now they have, at least one of them.

E. H. Taylor had a fraught relationship with the distillery now known as Buffalo Trace, Old Taylor's new home. BT has been making some interesting moves, with the acquisition of the Constellation/Barton portfolio (which is how it got Effen) and the Tom Moore Distillery, but they haven't said much about what they intend to do with them. I know they looked at buying the Old Taylor Distillery at one point but ultimately passed.

I'm interested to see what happens next.

By the way, the announcement came in what was primarily a press release, from Beam, about Beam acquiring Effen which--and this is hilarious--they claim is named after the Dutch word for 'smooth.' Yeah, right!

sounds like Effen baloney to me...

Anyway, let's home BT does something with the brand too. Maybe Old Crow is too far gone, but it seems there's hope for OT.

As for OGD, Beam has done something with it by doing nothing with it. They kept the mashbill, the yeast, kept it 86 proof, kept the BiB and made an overpriced 80 proofer with it. I'm sure some will want to lynch me, but I have a late ND OGD in the cabinet and I think I actually like the current version more.

It will be interesting to see what Saz does with OT and the old Barton stable going forward. Thanks for keeping us informed, Chuck.

[ThomasH]

The first thing they should do with OT is reintroduce the 100 proof version, even if it isn't a BIB. Too bad they didn't get the distillery property or they could rehab it too, even if it never functioned as a distillery again!

Thomas

[smokinjoe]

Ho hum. Until, I hear more, I am of the belief that this is simply a label sale. If they don't get, and use, the original ND recipe (does it still exist?), it's nothing to get excited about, IMO. They may make the product better then what Beam is putting in OT, by putting a superior BT juice in the bottle. (Say, AAA 10 yr.) But, that's just relabeling. Not, a resurrection of the venerable brand it once was.

BTW, whatever happened to the Cream of Kentucky, that BT was supposed to bring back?

I also hope that Beam doesn't unload OGD. Like Josh, I think they've done very good work with it, and I like it just the way they make it.

[OscarV]

Good points all across Joe.

I definatly would like to know if BT knows the old mashbill and distilling proofs as well.

I'm sure it could be dug up somewhere, Old Taylor was a major player and there were probably records that historians have found.

It would be nice to get another blast from the past like Old Grand-Dad.

[cowdery]

Beam sold the Taylor distillery property years ago. Trace looked into buying it but passed. Whiskey ages too slowly down there in that humid river valley, Mark Brown told me at the time.

Sazerac has acquired the brand and enough Beam whiskey to support it until they have enough from their own stocks.

The original Old Taylor recipe isn't the National one, it's the one E. H. Taylor made when he opened the place.

The last Old Taylor made at Old Taylor was made there, by National, in 1972.

[MikeK]

Sazerac has acquired the brand and enough Beam whiskey to support it until they have enough from their own stocks.

The last Old Taylor made at Old Taylor was made there, by National, in 1972.

Thanks for the clarification Chuck. So where was OT made from 1972 till Beam bought it all?

I've had various bottles of ND OT from the 1980's. Very Yummie. I also have an OT decanter from the 1940's that is very good, but very different from the ND profile.

[marco246]

BT has three bourbon mash bills, one wheated and two ryed. Old Taylor will almost doubtlessly use one of the existing ryed bills. It will be intersting to see where they place OT in their pantheon, and how they do it with respect to age, proof, and taste profile. BT strikes me as a very intelligently run operation, so we should expect a good result.

[ThomasH]

After OT shut down, the whiskey for its brands was made next door at Old Crow, which was alo owned by National!

Thomas

[smokinjoe]

I got to thinking (I should be thinking about work, but this is more important and more fun!) that it would be cool though, if BT was to try and replicate the old flavor profile, if they don't have the actual recipe. They do have the experimental still, that they could screw around with, to try and match distillate. That, or they could throw a couple of bags of Brach's Butterscotch Discs into each barrel. :yum: That would get them close. :yum:

[ggilbertva]

I've got Old Taylor 86pf handles from the early 80's and think it's very good....so whoever made it, they did a good job.

I'll reserve opinion on this and the Barton purchase until BT fully integrates those products into their lineup. I like the current Barton offerings, the BIB being my favorite. I hope BT is smart and retains that mashbill. As for OT, Even if they had the recipe, it wouldn't be the same obviously but maybe something close.

[Josh]

BT has three bourbon mash bills, one wheated and two ryed. Old Taylor will almost doubtlessly use one of the existing ryed bills. It will be intersting to see where they place OT in their pantheon, and how they do it with respect to age, proof, and taste profile. BT strikes me as a very intelligently run operation, so we should expect a good result.

I agree with you about BT, but Saz has two distilleries now, BT and Tom Moore. What might be fun to see is two ryed mashbills at Tom Moore, the Barton/1792 one and something based on the ND one.

And wasn't ND a descendent of E.H. Taylor's company, by way of the old whiskey trust? So I would imagine that the ND recipe wouldn't be too far off from that "original" one.

[TNbourbon]

BT has three bourbon mash bills, one wheated and two ryed. Old Taylor will almost doubtlessly use one of the existing ryed bills...

Wouldn't shock me to learn that OT already HAS HAD some BT distillate in it. As Chuck notes, somebody besides Old Taylor made the stuff between 1972 and ND's divestiture in 1987. George T. Stagg/Ancient Age/Buffalo Trace -- in any case, DSP-KY-113 -- unquestionably did some contract distilling in those days. I once owned an example here:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3938&highlight=Stonewood

The BT folks generally are pretty open about their products and history. Why doesn't somebody just ask 'em?

I agree with you about BT, but Saz has two distilleries now, BT and Tom Moore. What might be fun to see is two ryed mashbills at Tom Moore, the Barton/1792 one and something...

One evening at the Gazebo shortly after the Ridgewood/Ridgemont lawsuit/fiasco, I had a substantive discussion with bourbon HOF'er Bill Friel -- while serving a bottle of the original Ridge'wood' -- whose baby RW/RM 1792 was, and I'm as sure as my memory can be that he told me the original version was a combination of all THREE mashbills then-Barton made. Frankly, I've never found a Ridge'mont' that was up to those early Ridge'woods' -- and some of us know how transcendant some of that Warehouse Z stuff is singly -- so I don't fear at all Tom Moore's ability to put something special in OT bottles should the desire by management exist...

[cowdery]

National operated Old Grand-Dad (Forks of Elkhorn) until the sale too. OT during that period may have come from Crow, OGD or both.

I don't think any of Taylor's companies were ever part of the Trust. Old Taylor, like Crow and OGD, came to National by way of the Wathen family's American Medicinal Spirits consolidation warehouse during Prohibition.

[funknik]

I'm completely impartial, having never tried, or indeed, ever seen a bottle of Old Taylor, I doubt this acquisition will affect me much. That being said, I think BT will undoubtedly use something they're already distilling, my guess would be AAA mashbill. It would be cool if they used a Tom Moore distillate, but we've heard precious little about BT's plans there (unless I've missed something).

On the one hand, this seems good for the OT brand since BT is such a great tasting product and seems to manage their brands well. On the other hand, Sazerac seems to be acquiring a lot of brands lately and I wonder how they will adequately pay attention to all of them AND how far can they go? How long will it be before most bourbon bottles contain BT distillate? I like the stuff, but diversity is very, very good.

[Bourbon Geek]

There is SOOOOO much history associated with the Old Taylor Distillery ... it would be awesome if BT would purchase it ... if just to renovate the grounds and the castle ... but, with the capacity increases announced at BT, and their recent acquisition of the Tom Moore Distillery, I just can't see it happening.

I have been taken by the history of the place ever since my first visit to the site decades ago... and have periodically tried, behind the scenes, to get someone to put some money behind this venture. It's hard to separate my family history from this site (Col Taylor was apparently my Great Grandmother's Uncle ... Mike Veach even found a letter from him to her for me)... and I'm sure it distorts my objectivity ... but I can stand on the grounds and see the gazebos and the reflecting pools and the socialites from Frankfort sipping juleps ... and imagine all of the hand shaking and deals that were made at these gatherings ... and the stone castle with its enormous (for the time) distillation set just cranking out some mighty fine sour mash whiskey ...

[callmeox]

ThomasH took me to the Old Taylor site back in April and I took a bunch of photos. I wish I could get inside and get some pics of what is left, but I'm sure that will never happen.

What a great old site.

[OscarV]

I'm sure some will want to lynch me, but I have a late ND OGD in the cabinet and I think I actually like the current version more.

[jburlowski]

I know nothing about OT (among so many, many other things)... but being owned by BT vs. by JB has got to be a good thing.

[ILLfarmboy]

I once snagged a dusty/ semi-dusty pint of Old Taylor, no tax strip, it had a tamper evident cap, but the label was faded. I want to say it was 86 proof but it could have been 80, no age statement. I guess that meant it was Beam juice. I don't recall it having any butterscotch notes. It was nothing to wright home about, but it was better than current Beam white.

I suppose I would be more exited about BT resurrecting this label if I had known it in its glory days. I guess I'm just too young. Actually, I don't even recall seeing OT around these parts when I was under-aged.

[cowdery]

I know nothing about OT (among so many, many other things)... but being owned by BT vs. by JB has got to be a good thing.

It's much like the Wild Turkey sale. The brand goes from being owned by someone who doesn't see its potential to being owned by someone who does.

[callmeox]

I'm sure that Sazerac didn't buy the label to put dregs in there.

This could be really interesting.

[cowdery]

Let's just say that BT wants to do a "Heritage Collection"of its own, using historic brands associated with that distillery. Old Taylor would be a good addition to such a collection. As with Eagle Rare, they can upgrade the standard edition and use the name on a new BTAC.

I'm just guessing, honest.

Unlike Crow, which was a number one brand in its day, I'm not sure Old Taylor ever had a day. It's a name that means something to people like us and that's why we love BT. They do things they know people like us will like.

[Kevin]

It's much like the Wild Turkey sale. The brand goes from being owned by someone who doesn't see its potential to being owned by someone who does.

Are you refering to the transaction between Pernod-Ricard and Grouppo Campari?

I thought it was just a French company selling WT to a Italian company, not because either of them 'cared,' but that it was a fiscally beneficial to both parties.