Beam acquires Old Taylor

[Josh]

Thought it might be best to ask this question in a new post.

I picked up a 350 ml early Beam OT today while out dusty hunting, and it seems different from a more recent one I bought.

Beam gave Saz some juice when it sold OT to them. My question is, did Beam acquire ND juice when it acquired OT (and OGD & OCr)?

[bonneamie]

Lol. That answer's only on the qt so myob

[Josh]

Lol. That answer's only on the qt so myob

You sneak some Eagle Rare into work again Amy? No wonder your purse is so big.

[independant]

I recently bought one of these as well. Mine had an 89 on the bottom of the 375ml bottle. As I understand it that yes this should be ND juice. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What is the date on the bottom of your bottle Josh?

[cowdery]

In 1987, Beam didn't just buy Old Taylor, they bought the whole company (though it was billed as a merger), so they got everything, including all of the whiskey then aging in the warehouses. National continue to distill right up until the sale. Beam immediately shut everything down, but there was a lot of whiskey in the warehouses, including some that was only months old.

When Beam stopped using ND juice and started to use Beam juice is unknown. At the time, everybody had way too much whiskey (imagine such a thing). Beam didn't buy ND for Old Taylor or for any of the bourbons, they bought it for the DeKuyper line of liqueurs.

[independant]

I can understand that no one knows for sure when the ND juice dried up but I was wondering when Beam bought the brands did they keep using ND juice til it ran out or did Beam mix and match barrels ND with Beam to fill the bottles?

[pepcycle]

Seems like you don't understand.

I just think, its unknown.

[Josh]

I can understand that no one knows for sure when the ND juice dried up but I was wondering when Beam bought the brands did they keep using ND juice til it ran out or did Beam mix and match barrels ND with Beam to fill the bottles?

[Josh]

I think Chuck is saying that Beam continued to use ND juice until that ran out and then substituted their own.

The 350 ml bottle didn't have anything like a date code on the bottle, but there's a fifth from the same era still on the shelf there that I might go back for. It took a few sips to get a handle on, but I think I'm liking this juice.

I rechecked the 350 and picked up the fifth on my lunch break. The smaller bottle has a 90 and the taller one has a 93, putting it about 6 yrs. after the Beam acquisition. They both tasted and smelled very similar, and more like each other than any Beam product I've had.

Based on that I would say they just filled it with ND juice until that ran out, or at least used a similar blend of ND & Beam whiskey until they ran out. Both had the old "medicinal" label with a picture of the castle on the right side.

[cowdery]

Beam certainly did use the ND juice until it ran out, what is unknown is exactly how they used it.

I know that Old Grand-Dad was the only National bourbon that continued to be made with the original recipe, including its own yeast, so you can safely assume that they used up the ND-made OGD, then shifted to the Beam-made OGD, probably with some overlap when they used some of each.

It seems very unlikely that Beam would have used any ND juice in Beam-labeled bourbon and Beam didn't have any other brands in those days. It was essentially a one-brand company when it bought National. So it is safe to assume that the used the ND juice for the ND brands, and in the nature of the glut they had more than the usual supply, so there was probably still ND juice around still in barrels into the mid- to late-1990s.

But, realistically, if getting some ND juice is important to you, any National product bottled after the sale might contain all ND juice, all Beam juice, or some combination thereof.

[independant]

I agree that it would be unlikely for ND going into Beam products but I have often wondered how a distillery would handle something like getting a brand and having to match that flavor profile. I think it would make sense to slowly phase out ND juice by adding more and more Beam juice to the batches so there would not be a huge sudden chance in flavor.

[OscarV]

This now is getting to the over-analysis point.

It's as simple as this.

Beam uses a funky nasty yeast.

When Beam bought ND they got that yeast strain and now uses it for OGD.

Hence, Jim Beam sucks and OGD is good.

[cowdery]

"match that flavor profile"?

You're kidding me, right?

The reason I mentioned Old Grand-Dad is because it's rare that a brand is acquired and the new producer makes any effort to match the flavor profile. Old Fitz and Weller, when they were sold, are also exceptions because they remained wheated bourbons. Especially back in the 1980s, when brands and producers were dropping like flies, nobody worried about matching a flavor profile.

It's like that company that is keeping all those old beer brands alive (Old Style, Schlitz, Falls City, PBR, etc.). They're just holding a bunch of cans under the same tap.

Heaven Hill has probably acquired more "cats and dogs" brands over the years than anyone else and until Fitz came along, they all got the exact same juice.