Re-barrel VOB BIB

[ggilbertva]

Not sure if this thread would be more appropriate under the general forum but for now, figured I would place it here since this is going to be my own "specialty bottling".

I picked up a 5L, white oak medium char barrel yesterday and will add a little over 6 bottles of Very Old Barton Bottled in Bond bourbon. The barrel will be placed in my backyard shed so it's exposed to at least 1 full seasonal fluctuation. I will keep about 375ml of the original as a reference and then every 3-4 months will pull off about 100ml to sample. I'll post pics after I dump the bourbon this evening. If any folks here have conducted a re-barreling, your thoughts would be appreciated.

[funknik]

Not sure if this thread would be more appropriate under the general forum but for now, figured I would place it here since this is going to be my own "specialty bottling".

I picked up a 5L, white oak medium char barrel yesterday and will add a little over 6 bottles of Very Old Barton Bottled in Bond bourbon. The barrel will be placed in my backyard shed so it's exposed to at least 1 full seasonal fluctuation. I will keep about 375ml of the original as a reference and then every 3-4 months will pull off about 100ml to sample. I'll post pics after I dump the bourbon this evening. If any folks here have conducted a re-barreling, your thoughts would be appreciated.

[ggilbertva]

Although I have not done it myself, a friend re-barreled some 4RSB recently and ruined it something like 17 days! I sampled it and it was far too woody to drink -- just dead. Of course, this was a much smaller cask -- I think 1.5L and that may have made all of the difference (or it could have just been an anomaly -- I had some OGD that he re-barreled for months and it was very good) . . . I would watch it closely for the first couple of weeks, Greg, just to see how it's changing. Good luck, this sounds like an awesome project.

[ggilbertva]

Dumped the VOB this evening. Here are a couple of pics. Barrel and final resting place.

[Lost Pollito]

Small barrel. I'll echo Andy's thought....check the bourbon often. It will age quick.

[Rughi]

When you draw samples, give it a shake first. When spirits are left still in a tiny barrel, the liquid in the middle may be noticeably less oak influenced than you'll get at dumping. Better yet, dump your samples, over a large bowl, because it'll be messy. I usually use a thief, but that's nowhere near as indicative as dumping.

Also, are you intent on filling it completely? I like leaving head room to encourage oxygen interaction to get a fighting chance to progress in comparison to the lightning fast pace of the wood interaction.

Roger

[ggilbertva]

Thanks Roger. The barrel is filled but not quite to the top so there's a little room for air.

I may have to re-think when I draw from the barrel based on some of the feedback. I was thinking at first that I would wait until about 3 months in before pulling a sample but now I'm thinking I'll pull at regular shorter intervals just to sample and see how it's going. If things progress well, I'll still pull a larger sample every 3 months or so just to compare over time.

[funknik]

I may have to re-think when I draw from the barrel based on some of the feedback. I was thinking at first that I would wait until about 3 months in before pulling a sample but now I'm thinking I'll pull at regular shorter intervals just to sample and see how it's going.

I think you'll be surprised by how much in changes in a very short time.

[ggilbertva]

I think you'll be surprised by how much in changes in a very short time.

You're right Andy, I knew the change would be accelerated due to barrel size but I was basing some of my assessment on a friends just completed barrel project where it aged in a 5L barrel for 18 months and greatly improved over the entry bourbon. Bottom line, I'm looking forward to watching this change over time and hoping I get something better than the already great bourbon that went in.

[p_elliott]

Thanks Roger. The barrel is filled but not quite to the top so there's a little room for air.

I may have to re-think when I draw from the barrel based on some of the feedback. I was thinking at first that I would wait until about 3 months in before pulling a sample but now I'm thinking I'll pull at regular shorter intervals just to sample and see how it's going. If things progress well, I'll still pull a larger sample every 3 months or so just to compare over time.

Greg

Your going into winter it's not going to age much for the next couple of months. As a matter of fact it might make it worse with the whiskey just sitting on top of the char instead of soaking into the wood. The summer will bring some changes.

[theDon]

Greg, do y'all not have Tom Moore BIB available there. It is the same juice and may be a little more affordable, although I here VOB BIB is pretty cheap too. I wouldn't know, never seen a bottle here. Also you might notice a bigger change in the flavor over the aging process since it is younger than 6 years.

Jeff (Mozilla) has had a full barrel aging project going for some time and one of the main components is TM BIB vatted with several other cheap cases of bourbon. Everytime I stop by he gives me a sample and it has a very Wild Turkey profile to it. Anyway, hope you are having fun with your experiment.

[ggilbertva]

Greg, do y'all not have Tom Moore BIB available there. It is the same juice and may be a little more affordable, although I here VOB BIB is pretty cheap too. I wouldn't know, never seen a bottle here. Also you might notice a bigger change in the flavor over the aging process since it is younger than 6 years.

Jeff (Mozilla) has had a full barrel aging project going for some time and one of the main components is TM BIB vatted with several other cheap cases of bourbon. Everytime I stop by he gives me a sample and it has a very Wild Turkey profile to it. Anyway, hope you are having fun with your experiment.

Don

Tom Moore BIB is not sold here in VA or anywhere locally that I've seen. VOB is hard to find but at least I've seen it around between VA/MD/DC.

[ggilbertva]

As posted on my blog today: 2 weeks in in the barrel.

Early this afternoon I pulled about 50ml from the barrel and took a quick sip; is it my imagination or is this more vibrant than what went in? Unsure of my own analysis, I put it aside and waited until this evening to sit down and do a more logical examination of my project. I've taken two Glencairn glasses and pour about an ounce in each glass. As I hold the glasses side by side and place then up to the light, it is apparent the two weeks in my barrel has changed the color. The reference bourbon wasn't real dark to begin with and had a light straw like color. Week 2 bourbon is slightly darker and has a touch more amber/orange to it so score one for better color.

Nosing the original bourbon I pick up a fruit and banana quality along with some leather and wood notes. At two weeks the nose has changed and the banana is more ripe but not rotten. There's a softness to the nose that didn't exist before that has a cream quality to it.

As I stated, the color has changed. This is one quality I look for in a bourbon. To me, it's a good indicator of proof and age and the fact that the color has deepened slightly is a good sign.

As I taste the original, which is a great bourbon to begin with, I pick up the fruity banana quality to it and something that reminds me of leather chairs. It has bold flavor mid palate with a medium finish. Again, a great value bourbon. Tasting the next bourbon the flavors are more robust and the bold flavor found in the original is even more pronounced. The leather and wood is definitely up front but not unpleasant with a finish that resembles the original.

I'm digging the results so far and am pleased that the bourbon decided to cooperate and get slightly better instead of slightly worse. I'll be pouring off a sample for an upcoming party on December 12th so we'll see what other folks say about the bourbon. It's been unseasonably warm here in Virginia so the bourbon has gone through some exercise I would suspect but the weather is turning colder now so the changes may be more subtle in the coming months. We'll see.

[Lost Pollito]

As posted on my blog today: 2 weeks in in the barrel.

As I stated, the color has changed. This is one quality I look for in a bourbon.

[cowdery]

Suggestion. Well you pull a sample, drink half and bottle the other half, for future reference.

[TNbourbon]

Suggestion. Well you pull a sample, drink half and bottle the other half, for future reference.

This is exactly what I plan to do with some Copper Fox 'rye dog' I bought in a kit that included a lightly-charred mini-barrel. I figure with the 2 750mls of rye to start, I can siphon off two minis (50ml) every 6-7 months in order to create a rye vertical spanning 6-7 years. I'll sample one, put the other back.

[ggilbertva]

Suggestion. Well you pull a sample, drink half and bottle the other half, for future reference.

Chuck, that's exactly what I'm doing. I purchased some 100ml bottles and plan on pulling off samples, dating the bottles and doing a vertical once the barrel is complete. Right now I'm pulling samples each week but once I'm sure I'm progressing in the right direction, I'll pull less often. I know you're keen on the VOB so I can shoot you a sample in a couple months so you can see how it's changed.

[jinenjo]

Hey Greg. Good luck with the experiment.

Here's my two cents--as picked up from Roger and also confirmed through my own experience. I'd think of this first fill as a primer. It'll age quickly as everyone has suggested, even despite the climate, but more importantly this batch will condition the barrel and take away some (but certainly not all) of the heavy char/wood/oak from the cask. it's the next batch that I feel would more closely replicate the traditional aging process (i.e. more smoothly and slowly take the goods from the wood).

In other words, consider this a first step towards your next re-barreling.

Looking forward to hearing the coming results!

-Lear

[ggilbertva]

Hey Greg. Good luck with the experiment.

Here's my two cents--as picked up from Roger and also confirmed through my own experience. I'd think of this first fill as a primer. It'll age quickly as everyone has suggested, even despite the climate, but more importantly this batch will condition the barrel and take away some (but certainly not all) of the heavy char/wood/oak from the cask. it's the next batch that I feel would more closely replicate the traditional aging process (i.e. more smoothly and slowly take the goods from the wood).

In other words, consider this a first step towards your next re-barreling.

Looking forward to hearing the coming results!

-Lear

Lear - interesting suggestion as I would think that using the barrel again wouldn't be an option for bourbon but for something like aging beer. Have you re-used a barrel for bourbon again? I'll definately keep that in mind. Thanks.

[Megawatt]

Lear - interesting suggestion as I would think that using the barrel again wouldn't be an option for bourbon but for something like aging beer. Have you re-used a barrel for bourbon again? I'll definately keep that in mind. Thanks.

I don't see why you couldn't use the barrel again for bourbon or another kind of whisky. Of course, technically it's not bourbon any more once you've used a refill cask but I don't think you need to be too concerned over regulations. You could also use it to age rum or even tequila. When I try this I'm thinking of aging some Jamaican rum for a few weeks and then making some rum-finished Scotch or Canadian whisky.

[ggilbertva]

Here we are about 2 months into the re-barrel and the changes are evident but slower now that the weather has turned below freezing at night. The color has stayed pretty consistent; still a shade darker than the reference sample. The nose has changed as has the taste. I mentioned in my previous post at Day 14 that there was a fruity quality to it. At this point of the project the oak and char is playing a more dominant role as well as leather popping through. At first taste, the rye is still apparent on the palate but now there's a bit more sweetness on the backend of the finish. I have some relatives visiting from the U.K. and I got the thumbs up from an impartial taster so it appears we're progressing nicely.

Because of the winter weather, updates on this project will probably come in at longer intervals as I expect the changes to be less dramatic until warmer weather settles in. I'll continue to dip into the barrel and if I find there's a change worth mentioning, I'll be sure to post my notes. If any of you are conducting a re-barrel project of your own, please post some comments on how you're progressing. Cheers.

[OscarV]

2 down and 10 months to go.

This is fun, even though I'm hundreds of miles away.

Good choice on the VOB BIB.

[theDon]

Greg,

I'm going to give this a try. I just ordered a 2 liter barrel medium char and will use the Tom Moore BIB. I guess I should age it half the time as you? or what would be the ratio for this kind of project?

[ggilbertva]

Greg,

I'm going to give this a try. I just ordered a 2 liter barrel medium char and will use the Tom Moore BIB. I guess I should age it half the time as you? or what would be the ratio for this kind of project?

I'm not sure Don, the changes come pretty fast so you have to keep an eye on it. I put mine in barrel in Nov and it turned cold about 3 weeks after that so right now my barrel is fairly inactive. I figured once Spring hits, I'll have to stay on top of it. A friend left his in barrel for 18 months, It's very dark and the change was pretty dramatic but very good in the end. For me, I'm shooting from the hip and will see what happens.

[kickert]

We just finished a rye whiskey aged in 5 gallon barrels and it went from White Dog to finished in 4 months (and to tell you the truth, it was best about 2 weeks before we pulled it).