Michter's 25 yo. Rye

[AVB]

Same juice as the Rittenhouse at double the price? Seems odd that two 25 yo ryes show up at about the same time.

[Josh]

Same juice as the Rittenhouse at double the price? Seems odd that two 25 yo ryes show up at about the same time.

Methinks they probably have the same origin, unless the Michter's contains juice from the original Michter's, which I find pretty unlikely.

[Rughi]

Same juice as the Rittenhouse at double the price? Seems odd that two 25 yo ryes show up at about the same time.

It's probably from the Bernheim rye stocks that KBD has been filling several labels with for the last several years (Willett, Michters, Classic Cask, Vintage, Black Maple Hill, etc).

According to Parker Beam, HH's old rye is HH distillate that was originally meant for a small label, but never left the rickhouses as the owners went year after year without asking for their stocks to be bottled - until HH bought them back in 2005.

Roger

[sailor22]

What is the source of the Hirsch 21yr? Also KBD?

[Rughi]

What is the source of the Hirsch 21yr? Also KBD?

I think so.

Roger

[dgonano]

I was under the impression that Rittenhouse 21,23,25 was found in the HH warehouses but a Maryland group owned the barrels. I do know that HH began making Rye for the Pikeville brand when Standard in Baltimore owned the brand and after Majestic stopped distilling Standards's rye. HH then acquired the Pikesville label. Rittenhouse wasn't bought until a few years later, so it was never meant for the Rittenhouse label.

I had conversations with a fellow in Maryland who told of rye barrels aging in Kentucky with his( or his group's) name on them. This was 5 or 6 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if those barrels were the source of the recent Rittenhouse 21+ ryes.

But who made the rye whiskey for HH? Did they distill or did Bernheim make for them?

[cowdery]

I don't know who the HH rye was made for, though probably not Rittenhouse. Nobody ever claimed it was made for Rittenhouse. It was made by HH at the old distillery in Bardstown, long before the fire.

[dgonano]

Then the rye IS NOT Bernheim distillate. I asked Craig and Parker Beam if it was made for Pikesville. This was a few years ago. They said most likely it was since it was the only rye label they owned.

But somewhere I recall the "it was in the warehouse but owned by someone else" story.

[cowdery]

Pikesville was "someone else" until HH bought the brand. The entity they bought it from may have also owned that whiskey as a separate matter. Both could have been owned by related but legally separate entities. The entity that owned the whiskey still owned it and, obviously, still existed in 2005 when HH bought it back. I was told that they contacted the owner because in their judgment the whiskey was in danger of becoming over-wooded and should be dumped. When the owner indicated no interest in doing that, they raised the idea of buying it back. When they do a contract, the client owns the whiskey but HH undertakes a custodial duty to care for it. Until they determined it should get out of wood, they had no reason to contact the owner except to send them their annual bill. If they paid it, then HH did their job for another year. It also happened to come at a time when HH thought they could make some money off a 21-year-old rye.

[barturtle]

Then the rye IS NOT Bernheim distillate. I asked Craig and Parker Beam if it was made for Pikesville. This was a few years ago. They said most likely it was since it was the only rye label they owned.

But somewhere I recall the "it was in the warehouse but owned by someone else" story.

Just to clarify: we are talking about two different whiskies in this thread: the Rittenhouse 21,23,25, which was Heaven Hill, Bardstown distillate; and the Michter's 25yo rye, which is likely Bernhiem distillate.

[dgonano]

Tim,

I hope I didn't confuse anyone but I probably did so.I was talking of only Rittenhouse +++. The Michters 25 is as you stated most likely Bernheim.

Chuck,

Standard Distillers(Andrew Merle family) owned the label from end of Prohibition until the mid 80's. This was a Baltimore Corporation that aged and bottled the rye in Maryland. HH and others made some whiskey for them after Majestic (MD) stopped distilling in the mid 70's. HH acquired the label afterwards. I don't believe the former owned the barrels in question. Ownership most likely was held by other individuals associated with Standard who also had involvement in the Maryland rye industry.

[cowdery]

Tim,

I hope I didn't confuse anyone but I probably did so.I was talking of only Rittenhouse +++. The Michters 25 is as you stated most likely Bernheim.

Chuck,

Standard Distillers(Andrew Merle family) owned the label from end of Prohibition until the mid 80's. This was a Baltimore Corporation that aged and bottled the rye in Maryland. HH and others made some whiskey for them after Majestic (MD) stopped distilling in the mid 70's. HH acquired the label afterwards. I don't believe the former owned the barrels in question. Ownership most likely was held by other individuals associated with Standard who also had involvement in the Maryland rye industry.

[dgonano]

Chuck,

John Lipman did some extensive research in the history of Maryland Rye. We should defer to his site to obtain the answers to your questions. Majestic may have been closely associated with the Merle group. Pre-Prohibition Pikesville was made at the Winands Road Distillery just outside of Pikesville IIRC.