Curb Your Enthusiasm

[cowdery]

The micro-distillery movement is great. That there would be so many small distilleries in America making--well, anything--I never would have predicted. No one is more amazed than I am and no one is more delighted.

As whiskey enthusiasts, our prime directive is to try as many different whiskeys as we can. That's who we are. That's what we do. So naturally when a new whiskey comes along, regardless of its source, we want to try it, or at least learn a little more about it.

Which is why I want to advise my fellow whiskey enthusiasts, with regard to micro-distilleries, and in the immortal words of Larry David, curb your enthusiasm. The micro-distillers would like you to believe, and some of them actually believe this themselves, that they came right out of the box making products that are superior to those made by the majors. They didn't and they aren't.

In the case of whiskey in particular, what you have is simply a very limited range and the limitation is age. Some interesting things are being done with ages ranging from five minutes to about two years, but that's it. There is very little out there that is older than two years and it shows.

I'm not talking about the High West Rendezvous Rye, or High West BourRye, or Templeton Rye, or Angel's Envy Bourbon, or WhistlePig Rye, which were all made by majors and just bottled and sold by little guys.

In terms of the actual micro-distilled products out there, they're all just very young. Despite what some people say, nobody has figured out how to speed up the aging process.

This is not to say there is no merit in these young whiskeys. There is a lot of merit in many of them, but relative to what we're used to as whiskey drinkers, they're all too young. That's just the reality of what these guys are trying to do.

The other reality is that they are all going to be too expensive for what they are. That's also in the nature of the exercise. Whether or not they're "worth it" is something only you can decide.

So by "curb your enthusiasm," I don't mean "forget about it." What I mean is "don't expect too much." Enjoy these products for what they are and feel good about supporting someone's dream.

[Josh]

Very well put.

This has been my struggle with the growing numbers of micros here in Michigan. I want to try them. I want to be supportive, but if one of the majors was putting out one of these products, I would be bitching about it all over teh interwebs. Too young, too expensive.

Luckily there's bar that I regularly haunt that carries all of New Holland's spirits. The Zeppelin Bend malt, Freshwater Rum, Knickerbocker Gin and the Hatter Royale Hopquila and their vodkas (which they don't make themselves) are available at the bar.

I tried Zeppelin Bend again last week, just to give it a second opinion. It was much better than I had remembered. I almost ordered a second one. I'm glad I didn't. When the bill came it was $10 for 1.5 oz. For the sake of comparion, about 9 miles away is a Cajun/Creole restaurant that has Blanton's for the same price.:skep:

[OscarV]

This new wave of micro distilling reminds of all the bad starchy-yeast beer that beer snobs used to lie to themselves about.

[DeanSheen]

I'm glad this is happening but I'm only sporadically interested in supporting it.

Most micros seem to run $45+ and sometimes that's only for a 375ml. There are too many really good products out there I like in the $50 range that I know I like for me to take a gamble on an entire bottle of the micros.

[Thesh]

The only micro I have had a chance to try was "Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey." I am happy I tried it, but I wouldn't buy another bottle. I had to force that one down. I guess some people are expecting the micro-distilleries to be closer to the micro-breweries, but there are considerable differences. Beer can be made in weeks vs years (and you can perfect your brew at home before you even start up your business), and the major distilleries already put out a huge range of quality products; with beer, you just don't have that. Maybe in 10-15 years when the micro distilleries really have a chance to age and learn, we might start seeing some really good micro whiskies. For now, I don't think the price reflects the quality by any means.

[cas]

So how does an upstart break into this market? With the up-front time investment to make a really good whiskey of maybe 6+ years, and the risk of having a multi-year stock of aging juice with no cash returns, how can someone get into the bourbon business?

Craig

[MarkEdwards]

So how does an upstart break into this market? With the up-front time investment to make a really good whiskey of maybe 6+ years, and the risk of having a multi-year stock of aging juice with no cash returns, how can someone get into the bourbon business?

Craig

By selling young juice to finance the aged juice?

[jburlowski]

So how does an upstart break into this market? With the up-front time investment to make a really good whiskey of maybe 6+ years, and the risk of having a multi-year stock of aging juice with no cash returns, how can someone get into the bourbon business?

Craig

Usually by trying to sell vodka and / or poor, under-aged whiskey at high prices.

I applaud the movement but am less sanquine about its prospects than others here. I think the economics are just too daunting to see many succeed with a quality product.

[Thesh]

So how does an upstart break into this market? With the up-front time investment to make a really good whiskey of maybe 6+ years, and the risk of having a multi-year stock of aging juice with no cash returns, how can someone get into the bourbon business?

Craig

[callmeox]

Curbing my enthusiasm is easy since the flavors I enjoy most in bourbon come from the barrel and faking it doesn't count.

Dropping 10 bucks on a sixer of micro brew is nowhere near the commitment that one makes when soaking 50 bucks into a 375 of young whiskey.

[BigRich]

Thank you for saying it Chuck. I thought I was the only one.

[White Dog]

Tough crowd.

Chuck, you're a huge blues fan, so I'll use this analogy. I'd rather spend my money on releases from Fat Possum Records or Yazoo, rather than Capital or Warner Brothers. By the same token, I'd rather spend my money with Koval rather than with Fortune Brands. Many would disagree, but my heart motivates me as much as my brain.

Spending $50 in the interest of discovering a new whiskey is worth it to me, since I feel that your favorite beverage is the one just around the corner. Besides, unlike a $50 bottle of wine, you can enjoy the whiskey over a long haul.

Based on this thread, I don't think we'll ever see the potential of the micros because most people here aren't willing to support them. That's a shame. Diversity makes the whiskey world much more interesting.

[SMOWK]

I agree with White Dog that the closer the whiskey is to home, the better. I have yet to find a micro that I really liked, but I will keep searching. Someone will get it right at some point. I've started noticing a lot more micros as of late, so in about 6 or more years, we should start seeing some that actually taste good.

[IowaJeff]

I generally agree, especially regarding bourbons and ryes. I have had some micro-distillery 'single malts' aged in new barrels for a shorter time than most Scotch and have enjoyed them though. I don't think they have speeded the aging process, but it seems that you can extract flavors faster in new barrels. I have no science or evidence to back this up, but it seems to me that some single malts can pick up flavor from a new barrel faster than bourbons and ryes. That could be a result of me comparing 3 yo new barrel single malt to 8 yo used barrel single malt--as opposed to 3 yo new bourbon w/ 8 yo new bourbon.

I think Stranahan's is a great example of a younger microdistillery whiskey that outpaces many of its older, large distillery rivals. I love the stuff, even though I'm generally a bourbon drinker. Even if you don't like the flavor, I think its hard to argue that it lacks flavor/punch or tastes thin, complaints I generally have with younger whiskeys. In Stranahan's case, I don't know that aging it more would add much. I would certainly love to find out first-hand, but I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I find it packed with flavor, and although not always a perfect proxy for the quality of a whiskey, its dark color belies its age--its darker than many 15 yo Scotch's. Its also made in true microdistillery fashion, from local ingredients.

Microdistilleries also generate a lot of interest in whiskey and I think could force some of the bigger players to innovate and try new things. I always try to buy a bottle of a microdistillery product when I get a chance, even though it can be pricey. Its exciting to try something different and I want to support them. If microdistilleries succeed, they can grow and experiment more-aging more, finishing in different barrels, etc.

[callmeox]

I don't need to feel edgy by going for the next big thing in artsy craftsy spirits when the mass produced boys do a fine job.

Sorry, but 100 bucks for a bottle of glorified white dog instead of the same price for something that has aged fully doesn't seem like a good investment to me. It's not my job to prop up someone's well intentioned lab experiment or life's ambition.

[SMOWK]

Microdistilleries also generate a lot of interest in whiskey and I think could force some of the bigger players to innovate and try new things.

[bourbonv]

This is a two way street. The people who enjoy whiskey need to support them so they will survive, but at the same time these "craft distillers" need to realise that we don't want to pay all of their debt with one bottling. The distillers need to be reasonable on their prices.

I have hope and some enthusiasm for the craft distillery movement, but I also realise it will take time for them to really produce a good aged whiskey. I suspect it will happen, but not by one of these craft distillers who want to make big bucks in the short run.

Mike Veach

[IowaJeff]

I'm not a microdistiller and certainly can't speak for them, but I doubt they are making huge profits selling bottles for $50-75. Its just a matter of scale--Jim Beam can make whiskey cheaper than a microdistiller, much cheaper for one just starting out. Its like that in any industry--WalMart can make and sell a dress shirt much cheaper than a local tailor.

Now, to their credit, the big boys in whiskey overall do not scrimp on quality, as in some industries--they consistently put out great products. Where microdistilleries can make inroads is in expirementing with different ways to make whiskey, bringing different flavors and styles to the table, 'local' appeal, and of course, branding. Without small fish nipping at the heels of big fish an industry can become stagnant--putting out the tried and true product but not stepping out and trying new things. Not that that is all microdistilleries can do--I believe given time they can develop excellent products, some are already. The big fish were all little fish at some point.

[DeanSheen]

I think experimenting with Terroir would be a great way for these micros to make themselves stand out from the pack.

[bourbonv]

I agree that the micro disitillers are not making huge profits and the economy of scale has a lot to do with that. I do know that many will be tempted to go for a very expensive price because of this fact and if the whiskey is sub par then it will end up hurting them in the long run. They need to balance price with what they make to keep the consumer coming back for another bottle. I will pay $40 for a 375ml if the whiskey is craft distilled and if itshows promise at a young age I may buy another bottle.I will not pay $60.00 for any 375 unless I know it is good. Higher than that and they have lost me as a customer.

Mike Veach

[OscarV]

Curbing my enthusiasm is easy since the flavors I enjoy most in bourbon come from the barrel and faking it doesn't count.

I don't need to feel edgy by going for the next big thing in artsy craftsy spirits when the mass produced boys do a fine job.

Yep, whiskey is one of things that the big national brands have it over the so-called "hand-craft" guys.

These guys buy their yeast from a lab and grain all ready ground up and do no aging.

It's all about time in the barrel.

[ErichPryde]

Mike is hitting on something pretty important here. We, as consumers, shouldn't have to pay fifty dollars or more for a product that doesn't warrant it. In some cases, that can do nothing but tarnish a micro's reputation for the future.

[callmeox]

I guess that the easiest way to describe my feelings on this is that I am having difficulty shifting from "it is expensive because of the angels share is so great over time" to "it is expensive because I don't make a great volume of it at one time"

[ErichPryde]

I guess that the easiest way to describe my feelings on this is that I am having difficulty shifting from "it is expensive because of the angels share is so great over time" to "it is expensive because I don't make a great volume of it at one time"

But neither of those should be factors. If it tastes like fifty bucks, that's what matters.

[callmeox]

But neither of those should be factors. If it tastes like fifty bucks, that's what matters.

So, what does 50 bucks taste like?