Kentucky Tavern, the Forgotten Wheater

[bobbyc]

Marvin, I take your opinion seriously. You've convinced me!

[pepcycle]

Did anybody taste the vintage Kentucky Tavern at the Gazebo. My taste buds may have been numb, but I thought it was pretty good. It was a bottled in bond version and I believe was Pre United Distillers. I know that Jeff poured some. Opinions?

[cowdery]

I brought the KT to the gazebo and while it was BIB it wasn't vintage. I bought it a few days before in Mansfield, Ohio. It was made a stone's throw from the gazebo, at Barton.

[pepcycle]

Chuck,

Thanks. At that point of the evening, samplings were pretty much "hey, I haven't tried that yet" and not too much "Hmm, nice color and bouquet". A hazard of having thirty or more bottles present on the buffet.

[Gillman]

Many of those bottles have been described here, but not all. Can anyone give label details and taste notes for the Prohibition whiskeys? Were they outstanding, if so why?

Gary

[Blackkeno]

What wheaters are currently available as BIB?

[CL]

Isn't Old Fitz a wheater? It sure has the smoothness of one. Old Fitz BIB is one of my favorite mid-shelf bottlings.

[Barrel_Proof]

These two are B.I.B. wheaters:

- David Nicholson 1843 7yo 100

- Old Fitzgerald 100, aka "Cracker Jack"

- Very Very Old Fitzgerald 12yo 100

- Very Very Old Fitzgerald 15yo 100

These wheaters are 100 proof or more, but not strictly B.I.B.:

- Maker's Mark Gold Label 101

- Old Commonwealth 10yo 107

- Old Rip Van Winkle 10yo 107

- Old Rip Van Winkle 15yo 107

- Old Rip Van Winkle Family Reserve 16yo 101

- Old Rip Van Winkle Family Reserve 17yo 101

- Old Rip Van Winkle "Sam’s" 20yo 133.4

- Old Weller Antique 7yo 107

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 74-476, 20yo 102.4

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 74-241, 20yo 103.6

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 74-706, 20yo 107

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 74-327, 20yo 110

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 80-040, 20yo 108.4

- Society of Bourbon Connoisseurs, Batch 80-045, 20yo 112.2

- Twisted Spoke 16yo 105

- Van Winkle Family Reserve "Park Avenue" 18yo 105.2

- W.L. Weller Centennial 10yo 100

[jeff]

Ed,

I remember this being very flavorful and quite smooth. But alas, this was about my 5th pour of the evening and the particulars elude me. All I can say truthfully is is that it's no Kentuck Crown

[jeff]

Who would be listed as the distillery on a bottle of Kentucky Tavern produced today? I ask this because I ran across a bunch this weekend that listed Glenmore as the distillery. Is this some of the older stuff, or does Glenmore still appear on the new bottles? FWIW, the bottles looked rather new, not like bottles that might have sat around for a while.

[bourbonv]

Jeff,

When United Distillers sold Barton Kentucky Tavern they also sold tham the Glenmore Brands and probably the "Glenmore Distillery" company. I would look at the bottles and see if any of them are Bonded and look for the DSP number. If it has the Stitzel-Weller DSP number then it will be wheated bourbon. There is a liquor store in Maryland with about 10 cases of this wheated Kentucky Tavern on their shelves, but that is because they were closed down for about 10 years after being caught selling to minors and only recently reopened.

Mike Veach

[jeff]

Mike, I looked for a DSP and non was listed. Also I think it was only 80 proof. Probably rules out anything good then huh?

[bourbonv]

My opinion has always been that bourbon should not be bottled at less than 90 proof. The 80 proof KT is not an exception to that rule.

Mike Veach

[jeff]

I'm sure you're right about the quality, but does the 80 proof rule out any chance that this is the older, wheated KT?

[bobbyc]

U.D. sold Ezra Brooks to Heaven Hill (who sold it in turn to David Sherman).

Mike,

Did David Sherman also get the "RebelYell" label at the same time, and from Heaven Hill as well? Were there any others?

[dgonano]

Mike,

You've mentioned this liquor store in Maryland

a few times now. Just where is it?

[Barrel_Proof]

I recently bought a bottle of Kentucky Tavern BIB at a small shop in Versailles. The label identifies Owensboro as the location of Glenmore, so this would have been bottled after the assignment of the Glenmore trademarks from United to Barton. (By contrast, the latest bottles of 80 proof KT identify Owensboro, Bardstown, and Atlanta as the locations of Glenmore.)

The DSPs are KY-12 for the distiller and KY-24 for the bottler. I haven't cracked the seal, but what do you all expect to be in this bottle? Can anyone approximate a date for this bottling?

[bobbyc]

Looks to me anyway, Barrel_Proof that you missed the wheat version. DSP12 is Barton, DSP24 is what was Glenmore in Owensboro. A date? Sometime after the early 90s, and up to whenever that bottling line shut down. I think BettyeJo knows when that was.

[bourbonv]

David Sherman received Rebel Yell as part of the later deal with Barton, not the 93 sale of labels to Heaven Hill.

Mike Veach

[bourbonv]

This would be a Barton Bottling done sometime after the sale of the label in 96.

Mike Veach

[boone]

David Sherman received Rebel Yell as part of the later deal with Barton, not the 93 sale of labels to Heaven Hill.

Mike Veach

When Heaven Hill bought the distillery, there was a big deal with, several labels (going on also).

David Sherman, was "in" on "the deal", with the labels (only). When all the cards were dealt, the end result was, David Sherman, came away with Rebel Yell and Ezra Brooks.

I just got off the phone with the vice-president of Heaven Hill. He verified, exactly, what I was told years ago.

Bettye Jo

[bourbonv]

United Distillers sold Ezra Brooks in 1993. I thought Heaven Hill immediately sold the label to David Sherman along with Yellowstone, but from what you are saying Heaven Hill kept it until the later deal?

I thought Rebel Yell was sold with the Barton sale and the Viking Distillery in Georgia, but on second thought U.D. may have kept it until the big sale of the Bernheim distillery, along with the other major brands after I was gone in 97 or 98. That sale involved the distillery and the Old Fitzgerald brand going to Heaven Hill and the Weller brands and Old Charter to Buffalo Trace. United Distillers kept only the Dickel Distillery and brands and I W Harper bourbon brands.

Mike Veach

[BourbonJoe]

Bobby,

When the Regans wrote their book Kentucky Tavern was a wheated bourbon. Kentucky Tavern was the flagship brand for Glenmore Distilleries for many years. The problem was that when United Distillers acquired Glenmore and their two distilleries, neither of their distilleries had been in operation for several years. This meant that the whiskey for Kentucky Tavern was running short when U.D. took over. In 1993 it was decided that U.D. would put wheated bourbon from Stitzel-Weller in Kentucky Tavern because there was no more Glenmore bourbon to support the brand.

In 1996 the brand Kentucky Tavern was part of the sale to Barton that included the bottling facilities in Owenboro, Ky. Barton then started to put their own, rye recipe bourbon, in Kentucky Tavern.

Those people who bought Kentucky Tavern Bottled in Bond between 1993 and 1996 were getting the same whiskey that was going into Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond. It was a real bargin.

Mike Veach

Mike, I acquired an Old Kentucky Tavern BIB fifth from the 1950's. Who was making it at that time? Glenmore? Should it be good stuff?

Joe :usflag:

[Route 66]

Hello Everyone,

I have a little experience with Old Kentucky Tavern bourbons from Glenmore. A roadhouse I visit occasionally has some older OKT. It is the bonded 8 year, dated as barreled in 1957, bottled in 1965. As others have mentioned here, this older bourbon does seem to have way more flavor than todays typical varieties. As a comparison the closest other bourbon I have tasted like this 1965 BIB bottling is 10 year 107 Old Rip Van Winkle. I certainly don't think they are the same in taste but it goes with what others have said as the Glenmore OKT being "the forgotten wheater".

The OKT has a nice enough taste but it's not very balanced. It has very, very strong caramel notes over the others. It's nice to experience but if I had an UNopened bottle of Old Kentucky Tavern, which I do, I'd save it as a collectable and just spend the ~$27 on the 10/107 ORVW, or similar for drinking.

I have also tried the current Kentucky Tavern from Barton. Needless to say, there is no comparison at all - obviously not a "wheater". Yet for the $7.99/750ml it sells for here, I'd buy it all day long for mixers such as bourbon and cokes over the price of Jack Daniels.

Hope that helps a little.

-Mark