How is your beverage alcohol buying experience?

[OscarV]

- MOST grocery stores do not care to carry more than the "big names" and a couple of other required selections. They only have so much shelf space.

[p_elliott]

One of the Grocery stores here HyVee that sells liquor the liquor section is "normally" but not always a section attached to or a store adjacent to the store. These are full blown liquor stores and some like in the case of the one in Maryville Mo have a great selection of bourbon. The HyVee here in town just added hard liquor and they have just a few selections. I think they are testing the waters. I should maybe buy more there but they only have WT 101 and KC that I like (or maybe all they have) for bourbon. The local liquor store has had WT on sale since HyVee started selling it.

[bonneamie]

This is a very interesting thread. It's worth reading just to see the variety of experiences around the country.

Michiganders, you can read the current price list at this site:

http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-10570_14173_15087---,00.html

Chuck's blog post is appropos too. http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/

[cowdery]

I think Amy meant to link to this blog post.

The crazy thing about this crazy system and this crazy HR 5034 is that HR 5034 will make it even crazier.

[PaulO]

Josh said; "I do shop in Illinois (Binny's), Indiana and Kentucky fairly regularly and I find they have a much, much better selection than we do here. One thing that annoys me about Indiana, though, is that liquor stores are closed all day on Sunday and for many years liquor stores were not allowed to sell groceries, so a lot of them are pretty seedy and one has to walk past racks of girly magazines when entering or exiting the store. Michigan has a number of these seedy ones as well. As a result, my wife refuses to go into them. This has means I often end up spending more than I would if she wasn't there, so I guess that's a good thing from my perspective."

Living in Indiana, the no Sunday sales annoys me too. I'm surprized no one has challenged the constitutionality of it. I think the people that support this would even admit that they are using the government to try and impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

As to the sleazy liquor stores with dirty magazines, they do exist, but mostly in bad neighborhoods of large cities. Another type of store is the bullet-proof bunker, where all the transactions go through a slot in the glass. I try and stay away from those places. If a person passes into Indiana from Chicago, you might want to not stop too soon. Likewise, our capital has some areas I would avoid (just like other large cities). The "region" and the bad parts of Indy don't represent how most of the state lives.

The places I shop at are nice. I know two stores within an hours drive of me that are as nice as the Binny's I visited in Skokie. The only unique thing of interest that Binny's had were some of their single barrel purchases (with the sticker). The Illinois taxes were higher. KY has the best prices and selection. IN is about in the middle.

[texascarl]

Another KC bourbonian here, living on the state line has it's advantages. Missouri has better bourbon selection and has better "on sale" prices as a rule of thumb. Sunday liquor sales is now a town-by-town thing in Kansas, and Shawnee where I live allows Sunday sales. FWIW, I buy Four Roses products, David Nicholson 1843 bourbon and White Horse scotch (only) in Missouri at this time.

[IowaJeff]

I live in Des Moines, Iowa. Iowa is a control state. My main gripe is a lack of selection. Secondary to that is the lack of quality liquor stores. The grocery stores in the area generally have at least a large beer/liquor/wine aisle, and many have an attached but separate store. They have a decent selection overall, but the American whiskey selection is usually limited to MM, WT, Evan Williams, JB products, etc. that are on the state list.

There are numerous smaller liquor stores in town, but really only two that frequently special order anything. There is one 40 minutes away from DSM in Ames that has a great selection. Anything not on the state list has to be specially ordered by the store through the state. The store has to fill out a form and pay an additional tax/fee for special orders, which raises the price for many of those products. PVW, 4 Roses, Elijah Craig, most BT products, all have to be specially ordered. I think the large grocery chains have driven a lot of business away from liquor stores, which mean less selection, because a grocery chain is not as likely to special order items.

Individuals can have only have one liter 'imported' into the state at a time without going through the state (4 liters if 'imported' from outside the US). That makes it very inconvenient to purchase online. I can only buy one bottle at a time and thus can't combine shipping. $10-15 is a lot to add to the price of an individual bottle. This also technically means I cannot go to Missouri, stock up, and bring it back to Iowa. That's just plain nonsense.

In sum, were it not for a couple of great liquor stores willing to step out and special order items, the DSM area would be a bourbon/rye wasteland.

[jfw]

In MD, we generaly have good prices and a fairly good selection (now that Four Roses is sold here). The most annoying thing about MD is that you can't ship into the state (the bill to change that keeps getting stuck in committee here even though they have the votes to pass the bill if they can get it out of committee).

But even within the state, the rules are inconsistant. Some counties allow liquor stores to be open on Sunday, some don't. Montgomery County only allows hard liquor to be sold in county controlled stores. The good news there is that they generally have the best prices in the state.

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dlctmpl.asp?url=/content/dlc/liquor/home/index.asp

You never really know what you are missing until you visit a Binny's or Liquor Barn to see the selections available there.

[ratcheer]

You never really know what you are missing until you visit a Binny's or Liquor Barn to see the selections available there.

I am afraid that I have just about fallen out of the bourbon discussions, because there is basically nothing interesting on the Alabama shelves to talk about. I was complaining about the selection variety five years ago and things have only gotten worse since then. :smiley_acbt:

Of course, there seems to be about 300 vodka choices.

Tim

[dean_martin]

I am afraid that I have just about fallen out of the bourbon discussions, because there is basically nothing interesting on the Alabama shelves to talk about. I was complaining about the selection variety five years ago and things have only gotten worse since then. :smiley_acbt:

Of course, there seems to be about 300 vodka choices.

Tim

I feel your pain. However, because I live near the AL/FL line, weekend trips to P'cola are no big deal. Just wish some of the 4Roses special bottlings were available. On the plus side, I've found that there are at least one or two abc stores in each region that seems to carry more than just what's on the retail list. Have you looked for the abc store in your area that also sells to restaurants, bars, etc.?

The wifey and I are planning a trip to Louisville in the fall. I hope to return with Rittenhouse, Willett and a 4roses - maybe that new L.E. small batch and perhaps some various bib.

[foxflyer5]

You never really know what you are missing until you visit a Binny's or Liquor Barn to see the selections available there.

i was just looking at Binny's today. im not sure if i can have them ship to PA or not. PA is so crazy that i just assume its not allowed, but the only thing i could find on the control board's website talked specifically about wine. anyone in PA get shipments of online orders?

Of course, there seems to be about 300 vodka choices.

my lady says i can sit there and drink whiskey by myself all i want,

but not vodka, vodka is the alcoholic's drink.

[OscarV]

my lady says i can sit there and drink whiskey by myself all i want,

but not vodka, vodka is the alcoholic's drink.

Sound advice, she's a keeper.

[Joshua]

I have one complaint that seems pretty universal across the liquor buying experience...

There seems to be a general disregard for customer taste and poor treatment for the whiskey enthusiast. Almost every store I go in looks at me like I'm going to steal something, or gets pushy about me buying a product. When a store makes me feel bad for not buying some junk I don't want... that's not a good experience.

I know it's not just me either, I have seen it with others. "What are you looking for? Oh this Bookers is really good, it's about the best bourbon there is. It's better than what you're looking for." or "This Old Crow Reserve is a really great deal, you should pick up this instead."

I know at least 2 other's on this board have complained to me about the below experience...

"What are you looking for?"

"Just browsing, seeing if there's anything sitting around for a while or specific bottlings"

"Oh I can order anything you want."

"No thanks, I'm after out of production bottlings"

"Well what do you want, I can order them."

"I don't mean to be rude, but I'm looking for things you can't order anymore"

"I can order anything, what do you want me to order for you?"

...come on, can't you take a hint? Stop being pushy and trying to guilt me into buying a bottle.

Don't try and lecture people that know more about bourbon then you do, then try to make them feel like their knowledge is wrong because you got your information out of advertisements and info on the bottle.

[jfw]

It took me a bit of time to connect that noone browses in liquor stores (unlike almost any other type of store) except for the people on this forum . I get the strangest looks when I leave without buying something even afer I try to explain they don't have what I was looking for.

[ggilbertva]

Virginia as a controlled state has improved their bourbon selection and overall liquor selection over the last number of years (from sucks to just ok). The prices are still quite high so it's not very often that I really shop in the state ABC stores. Montgomery Cnty, MD has the cheapest prices around as they are a not for profit controlled county so I can find things like EWSB for $18 or Bookers for $35-$40 (if they have it on sale) and I've picked up OWA for $15. Bob McDonnell used the privatization of the ABC stores as one of his gubernatorial points in his bid for election. I think the VA Gov't does a lower than average job in controlling liquor sales and moving product here in the state and allowing the private market to model places like IL and CA would certainly be an improvement.

[ratcheer]

It took me a bit of time to connect that noone browses in liquor stores (unlike almost any other type of store) except for the people on this forum . I get the strangest looks when I leave without buying something even afer I try to explain they don't have what I was looking for.

Hmmm, you are right. I will be in a store carefully browsing when someone else swoops by, picks up a bottle of this and a bottle of that, then heads for the checkout. Sometimes I will make a comment to them, something like, "Well, there's a man who knows what he wants."

They are usually getting Jack Daniels and Canadian Club, or some such.

Tim

[gblick]

I was talking to a small store owner the other day, and he told me 'the powers that be' were trying to legalize Sunday liquor sales and also the sale of liquor in grocery stores here in Texas. He told me that if it passed he would likely go out of business. If it's going to put the small mom & pop liquor stores out of business, I'd rather just leave it as is. I don't care about it not being sold on Sunday (I've got a few bottles bunkered, so I won't likely run out on that one day), and I also like having a special store just for liquor to shop in rather than a grocery store. The only drawback to not being open on Sunday is when I'm out on Sunday and can't do a little browsing or dusty hunting.

[IowaJeff]

I was talking to a small store owner the other day, and he told me 'the powers that be' were trying to legalize Sunday liquor sales and also the sale of liquor in grocery stores here in Texas. He told me that if it passed he would likely go out of business. If it's going to put the small mom & pop liquor stores out of business, I'd rather just leave it as is. I don't care about it not being sold on Sunday (I've got a few bottles bunkered, so I won't likely run out on that one day), and I also like having a special store just for liquor to shop in rather than a grocery store. The only drawback to not being open on Sunday is when I'm out on Sunday and can't do a little browsing or dusty hunting.

I think grocery stores selling liquor does hurt the independent stores. The ones that survive usually have some other niche, like distributing to bars, or a huge wine selection. Liquor stores predominantly make their money selling beer, JD, cheap vodka, capt'n morgan, etc. If you can get that at a grocery store that is closer, most people do. One of the independent liquor stores here in IA has a radio commercial that says "if you want milk and bread, go to the grocery store; if you want the best prices and selection on liquor, go to your local independent store."

[Rutter]

All of our grocery stores here sell beer wine and spirits 24 hours a day except for the daft sunday trading hours where they can only be open for 6 hours.

As a result of this we have very few specialist stores, so most off licenses need to take up valuable bourbon space by selling sweets smokes and magazines and so end up being a smaller version of the big grocery stores however they can't beat them on price.

[cowdery]

I'd like to introduce a principle into this conversation. It's not a principle that all endorse but many do, including me.

The principle is that unfettered markets best serve the interests of buyers, sellers, and the community at large. Therefore, the state must have a compelling reason for any restriction it wants to impose because any such restriction creates a harm that must be justified by a greater good.

This means that the alcoholic beverage market will best serve the interests of alcoholic beverage buyers and sellers if those buyers and sellers alone control all decisions about products, pricing, distribution, and marketing.

Whether or not such an unfettered marketplace best serves the interests of the community at large is the more difficult question. Even so, if any state-imposed restriction harms the interests of marketplace participants, then the state should have to prove that the benefit of its restriction to the community at large is significantly greater than said harm.

What the states tend to offer instead is a very general justification for state control based on general interests such as promoting temperance and preventing underage drinking. It usually fails to show how a given restriction will advance any of those interests, or acknowledge and balance that against how marketplace participants will be harmed.

It always amazes me when people who identify themselves as conservatives and free marketers enthusiastically embrace a socialistic (i.e., management by the state) solution to alcohol-related social problems. The socialists, of course, like it too.

The other great irony is the tension between promotion of temperance and maximization of alcohol tax revenues.

[mrviognier]

Well said; but you have to know that 'principles' and 'politics' are somewhat oxymoronic.

The state does have a compelling reason to its way of thinking: it wants the revenue. That's why the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board will never be abolished, why UT, VA, etc have state stores, and why some municipalities in MN have a retail monopoly. Sure, it flies in the face of free market capitalism, and doesn't serve the best interests of the consumer...but no governmental body - large or small - is going to walk away from the cash flow once it's theirs.

Sad but true...

[cowdery]

Then the interesting question becomes why is Illinois different from Utah? My opinion is that in most cases, it is a vestige of decisions made 77 years ago. Then you have to ask, why was Illinois different from Utah 77 years ago?

My further opinion is that there is no more justification to the particular regime of this state or that than the spin of a wheel. The spin of a wheel maintained by inertia.

[ratcheer]

In Alabama, one of the stated (by law) goals of the ABC is "promoting temperance". IMHO, they do a pretty good job of it. :skep:

Tim

[mrviognier]

...there is no more justification to the particular regime of this state or that than the spin of a wheel. The spin of a wheel maintained by inertia.

Absolutely...but the spin is maintained by money.

The only good thing in all of the madness? The ONLY reason prohibition was repealed was that the congress agreed to allow states unfettered rights to determine the laws governing the production, distribution and sale of beverage alcohol within their own borders.

So it could be worse...

[cowdery]

Of course it's about money, i.e., tax revenue, but were that the whole story, the states would all gravitate to a model that maximizes revenue and the system would move in the direction of uniformity. Instead the opposite is true.