Pending patent for speeding up spirit aging

[callmeox]

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/startup_companys_speedier_proc.html

Interesting read, but he will need more than a patent to get this off the ground.

Thoughts?

[CorvallisCracker]

Thoughts?

[callmeox]

I can see adding surface area and heat to speed up the color and flavor transfer from barrel to hooch, but how does one speed up the oxidation that takes place over time?

[CorvallisCracker]

Blow air (or oxygen) into it. Same sort of thing they do for carbonated water/soft drinks, but O2 rather than CO2.

[DeanSheen]

Great just what this town needs, to be known for the invention of "fake whiskey".

[cowdery]

Great just what this town needs, to be known for the invention of "fake whiskey".

In the first iteration of Bulleit, Tommy called it "engineered whiskey."

[DeanSheen]

In the first iteration of Bulleit, Tommy called it "engineered whiskey."

Well thanks for that Chuck, I guess it takes a little heat off.

[tmckenzie]

A guy from austria or some where called me the other day and he had a machine to speed it up based on nano technology. He said 4 years in 4 days. I fell off my chair laughing, I told him I would be scared to drink it. I doubt he will call me back.

[gothbat]

My friend and I were talking one day and we were both wondering what would happen if moved a barrel you were aging from a cold room to a hot room every week or so (figure it's been attempted but I've never read anything about this...) and it sounds like we may get to find out since that's what I assume he's doing... I'll try it if/when it hits shelves but I think the price I'd be willing to pay would be far less than what I'd be willing to pay for whiskey that's actually aged for a couple of years. Oh, and this certainly sounds more realistic than that device I saw an ad for a few years back that claims to age a shot of whiskey with magnetic fields... :]

[cowdery]

You never know with anything like this who is well-meaning if deluded and who is a scammer. Some of them don't know themselves.

My first question would be about due diligence. Have you found and reviewed all of the research that has already been done in this area? Some of it may be proprietary but there should be a lot in the public domain. This is hardly a new idea.

Most of these techniques accomplish something but they never get quite the same results as conventional aging. Also, faster isn't necessarily less expensive.

Heat cycling of warehouses is an acceleration technique that is widely accepted but not universally used.

I remain unmoved.

[mrviognier]

If you spend enough time in this industry (or enough time observing it), you'll learn that there's always some newcomer who'll claim to have found a shortcut to a qualitative and/or stylistic goal. It reminds me of those Japanese scientists that broke down the chemical composition of many First Growth Bordeaux, and claimed that they could replicate, say, Chateau Mouton-Rothschild in their lab. The resulting beverage was crap.

Time patience and tried-and-true methods have a reason for being the industry norm...at least when the highest possible quality is your goal. As P.T. used to say, there's a sucker born every minute.

[CorvallisCracker]

I know the craft distillers would hate it, but perhaps there would be some value in the US adopting the EU/Canadian standard of identity for whiskey - that it must be barrel aged for at least three years before you can label it "whisk(e)y".

That would put a quick stop to nonsense like what's being attempted by Lix.

[mrviognier]

Good idea; however, I wouldn't hold my breath. I have to imagine that natural market forces will take care of this guy...at least in the quality end of the market.

[tmckenzie]

I disagree with corvallis. I think a lot of (craft distillers) would be lining up. Bill Owens evidently thinks so too. What a shame.

[Joshua]

Well a microwave cooks a steak faster than a grill or smoker... but do you really want to microwave your good steaks?

Just because it can be done faster, doesn't mean it's going to be the same quality. I can't think of a "faster way" that is better in production of much of anything. Well aside from an economic standpoint... but we're talking quality and not cost here.

[jburlowski]

Most of these techniques accomplish something but they never get quite the same results as conventional aging. Also, faster isn't necessarily less expensive.

As in: age = wisdom.

[Josh]

I disagree with corvallis. I think a lot of (craft distillers) would be lining up. Bill Owens evidently thinks so too. What a shame.

[pepcycle]

The only way to the New World is to sail from Europe to the West Indies.

Anybody who thinks there's a better way risks unknown consequences.

[Gillman]

Well, there have been innovations in the past that worked, notably cycling. What's being bruited now is simply a development of that.

Gary

[CorvallisCracker]

The only way to the New World is to sail from Europe to the West Indies.

Anybody who thinks there's a better way risks unknown consequences.

Some ways might be better, and some not. Can you say "Hindenberg"?

[cowdery]

I'm not saying don't try. Always keep reaching for the stars, baby. I'm just saying don't expect me to wet myself until you've got something to show.

[Leopold]

Just because it can be done faster, doesn't mean it's going to be the same quality. I can't think of a "faster way" that is better in production of much of anything.

Recall that all major US whiskey distillers switched from pot distillation to continuously operating column stills. It's exponentially faster, and exponentially cheaper. Do you think that quality suffered?

I'm with Mr. Cowdery. Manipulating pressure, temperature, oxygen, and movement are nothing new in the world of aged spirits. I've read many papers on the subject that were authored well over a hundred years ago. This is nothing new.

[Joshua]

I'm not taking money into the equation, that creates a whole new can of worms... and I was primarily referring to aging, the long haul. Arguably, some people the feel the quality DID suffer. Of course, with things of this nature 'quality' can be fairly subjective.

I was stating that with all crafted things, you can only 'cheat' so much... such as the comment about microwaving steak. I have no doubt in my mind that you can age a spirit faster using technology, however I'm fully convinced it's not going to be the exact same result as using traditional means. I don't believe you can achieve the same result. however with taste and 'quality' being subjective, some folks may prefer the alternate result.

You stated the manipulation of pressure, temp, oxygen, and movement are nothing new... which is true, no doubt. However it looks like most of the experiments with aging tricks have been unsuccessful. This, makes me skeptical, although with anything new I am interested and willing to give it an open minded taste.

[cowdery]

Semantically speaking, you cannot "age a spirit faster using technology." You can simulate some of the effects of aging but that's not aging or "faster aging," it's pressurizing or infusing or whatever it is. Only aging is aging. Even heat cycling, which is pretty well accepted, only affects absorption. It doesn't affect a lot of the other things that happen.

The semantic point isn't the point, of course, but it's a metaphor.

I really wonder about the due diligence of the people who are giving these grants and to what extent the whole thing isn't just about playing the system. Like the guys who sell the "making money" systems who don't tell you that the only way they've found to make money is by selling phony making money systems to suckers like you.

[MarkEdwards]

As in: age = wisdom.

Gads, I am SOOOO wise, then :smiley_acbt: