Kittling Ridge

[Megawatt]

I toured the distillery at Kittling Ridge in Grimsby, Ontario today. It was my first time in a distillery (they are also a winery but who cares?). For those that don't know, these are the folks responsible for Forty Creek whisky.

It was interesting to see first-hand the massive fermentation units (for wine), the copper pot still, and the towering column stills (one steel, one copper). Neat little operation they have there.

One thing that struck me was how much they stress that they are unique in not using a mash bill for Barrel Select whisky, but rather distilling the whiskies and aging them separately before blending and finishing. As if every other distillery in Canada doesn't do something similar (Canadian Club excepted).

Out of the four whiskies I sampled (Barrel Select, Three Grain, Mountain Rock, and Pure Gold), I thought the cheapest was the best: Pure Gold. The most traditional in style, it had the fullest body, the most balanced flavour, and the least harshness to my palate. Nice buttery notes with hints of maple.

Speaking of maple, I also picked up their Oh Canada liqeuer, made with whisky, maple syrup and honey. Very tasty at 26.5% alc/vol.

Just thought I'd share my visit with those interested.

[cowdery]

I think they talk about making individual whiskeys not because other Canadian distillers don't do the same thing -- and as you note Canadian Club is the only one that does not -- but because they are really oriented to the American market and that is in contrast with practice in the USA. I assume because of their location that most of their distillery visitors are foreign (i.e., us).

[Gillman]

Good report, Mike.

Gary

[Megawatt]

I think they talk about making individual whiskeys not because other Canadian distillers don't do the same thing -- and as you note Canadian Club is the only one that does not -- but because they are really oriented to the American market and that is in contrast with practice in the USA. I assume because of their location that most of their distillery visitors are foreign (i.e., us).

Ah, well that would make a lot more sense, then. It was also interesting to find out that before John Hall bought up the distillery, which was previously used to make eau-de-vie and various fruit spirits, it was illegal in Ontario to make wine and spirits in the same facility. Apparently Mr. Hall lobbied for three years to change this.

I do wish that John Hall would venture away from his wine-makers mentality of "mixed vintages" and just release a well-aged whisky some time soon. I suppose they are still young, though.

In September the new Confederation Oak expression comes out. Should be interesting, though I don't know about $70 for a bottle.

[Gillman]

Barrel Select though has some good age on it, something like 8-12 years if memory serves. The whiskies are fine, the only thing I would do is emphasize the pot still and de-emphasize the others.

Gary

[Megawatt]

Barrel Select though has some good age on it, something like 8-12 years if memory serves. The whiskies are fine, the only thing I would do is emphasize the pot still and de-emphasize the others.

Gary

[Gillman]

Well, perhaps it was 6-10, but anyway there is definitely some well-aged whisky in that bottle. If it is all distilled in pot stills (except I guess for part of the Pure Gold), then what I mean is, I would think the blends would benefit from using more whisky distilled at a low proof. When I taste those whiskies, they seem to have a lightness that may derive from distillation at a relatively high, clean proof. Even pot stills (with enough runs or other adjustments) can be made to produce a higher proof, clean spirit. I'd prefer in a word a heavier-bodied taste to those whiskies. However, Barrel Select is an excellent product still, it is always in my bar.

Gary

[cowdery]

He makes corn, rye and malt whiskeys. The normal thing in Canada would be to use the column still for the corn and the pot stills for everything else. I assume that's what he does.

[dbk]

I was at Forty Creek/Kittling Ridge for the release of the Confederation Oak Reserve. On the tour, I was also led to believe that their current whiskies (Barrel Select, Double Barrel, and Confederation Oak) are entirely pot distilled. Tour guides are never wrong...

[Megawatt]

I was at Forty Creek/Kittling Ridge for the release of the Confederation Oak Reserve. On the tour, I was also led to believe that their current whiskies (Barrel Select, Double Barrel, and Confederation Oak) are entirely pot distilled. Tour guides are never wrong...

In this case they were probably right. I think all the whiskies except Pure Gold and Mountain Rock are advertised as "pot distilled." Incidentally, Mountain Rock isn't half bad either, if you like Barrel Select.

[Gillman]

It's not so much pot vs. other distilling, but the distilling-out proof that I find of interest. To my knowledge, this has never been disclosed for the component whiskies in the blends. Their whiskies have a unique house taste and are well-made, the Confederation is certainly very good, with a rich buttercream flavour that still spells Canadian whisky to me, i.e., it stretches the boundaries but is not similar to a bourbon, straight rye or single malt.

Of the new crop of Canadian whiskies, I find this the best plus CR Black (now available in Ontario) and Wiser's Legacy. Legacy has the richest distillery character IMO, a big spearmint flavour that is excellent and denotes low-distilled straight rye, or a decent component of it.

Gary

[Megawatt]

It's not so much pot vs. other distilling, but the distilling-out proof that I find of interest. To my knowledge, this has never been disclosed for the component whiskies in the blends. Their whiskies have a unique house taste and are well-made, the Confederation is certainly very good, with a rich buttercream flavour that still spells Canadian whisky to me, i.e., it stretches the boundaries but is not similar to a bourbon, straight rye or single malt.

Of the new crop of Canadian whiskies, I find this the best plus CR Black (now available in Ontario) and Wiser's Legacy. Legacy has the richest distillery character IMO, a big spearmint flavour that is excellent and denotes low-distilled straight rye, or a decent component of it.

Gary

I personally like the Canadian style and I would be disappointed if Canadian distillers started making bourbon-style whisky. But I agree that a little moer variety couldn't hurt.

So if you had to buy just one, you would take Legacy over Confederation Oak?

[Gillman]

Each of the three I mentioned is excellent and different, it's so hard to say! I'd pick any one to start and catch up later with the others, sometimes as you know you can find them at a Tasting Tower at LCBO, so my practice has been to buy the most affordable for me and then taste the others at the Tower or buy them later if I can.

Gary

[cowdery]

John Hall has always said that he makes whiskey in the Canadian style. Although I don't know the precise distillation proofs, I know he pulls the corn whiskey off at a very high, nearly neutral proof and the rye and malt whiskey at a much lower one. He also uses a mix of sherry casks, used charred barrels and new charred barrels, perhaps also some toasted, un-charred barrels.

He uses a hybrid still, which is a pot but topped with a rectification column instead of an alembic. This is what most American micro-distillers who claim to use pot stills also use. It's pot only in the sense that it is a charge still, as opposed to continuous, but the rectification column allows it to produce a distillate virtually the same as what continuous stills produce. Also like most American micro-distillers, Hall only does one distillation, no doubling.

The proper question, when someone claims to be using a pot still, is "is it an alembic?" The 'pot stills' used in the production of Cognac and Single Malt Scotch are alembics. Most other claims of 'pot still' distillation involve hybrids, which in my opinion are more column than pot. A tip-off, you can't make vodka using alembics so if someone claims they're making pot-still vodka, their still is a hybrid.

Hybrids were developed primarily for making eau de vie, but they are very versatile and good for a small producer who wants to make a lot of different things. I just think it's misleading, although technically true, to call them pot stills.

[dbk]

The proper question, when someone claims to be using a pot still, is "is it an alembic?" The 'pot stills' used in the production of Cognac and Single Malt Scotch are alembics. Most other claims of 'pot still' distillation involve hybrids, which in my opinion are more column than pot. A tip-off, you can't make vodka using alembics so if someone claims they're making pot-still vodka, their still is a hybrid.

The column modification on Hall's pot still is rather short, and I'm guessing he really couldn't make vodka from it (though of course I don't know for sure). It really does seem to me that the intention of the modification is to pull out a slightly higher proof. Indeed, from my notes from the tour, the modification was made just so that the whiskey could come off the still at about 65% ABV. I'm relatively new to the whiskey world, so pardon any naivety on my part here, but I really do suspect the still is more "pot" than "column."

[Gillman]

Well that's interesting because 130 proof (in US terms) is pretty low, i.e., it conduces to a traditional, well-flavoured product. Kittling Ridge's products are distinctive but still to me have a traditionally Canadian character. Therefore I wonder if the part that is 130 proof is a relatively small part of the blends.

Gary

[Megawatt]

Well that's interesting because 130 proof (in US terms) is pretty low, i.e., it conduces to a traditional, well-flavoured product. Kittling Ridge's products are distinctive but still to me have a traditionally Canadian character. Therefore I wonder if the part that is 130 proof is a relatively small part of the blends.

Gary

[Gillman]

Yes, I think the copper still was from the Rieder days, when that company was a brandy and eau-de-vie maker. However, Rieder, if memory serves, also put out a Canadian whisky, called Canadian Company I think. So its equipment may have been used for that at the time.

If all the spirit (i.e., from all the grains) is distilled out at 130, that would be interesting. I would have thought some of the spirit is distilled out at higher than that especially the corn part, judging that is by the taste, but I could be wrong. It may be that the barrels do eliminate all the unpleasant congeners over the aging periods, that is possible, and that the reason we don't get any analogies in taste to bourbon is (or I don't), that only part of the cooperage is new charred wood. It's hard to say without detailed information...

I like all their output, especially Confederation Oak and Barrel Select.

Gary

[cowdery]

An article I wrote about 40 Creek in 2005 says, "he generally runs just one distillation pass, bringing the spirit off his self-modified, German-made still at 62% alcohol. Occasionally he doubles the spirit and takes it up to 70-75%."

That suggests his rectification column is, indeed, limited. The standard-issue German-made pot stills (i.e., hybrids) that most of the micro-distilleries use can achieve any proof up to and including neutrality in a single pass.

That article also says that the average age of the whiskeys in his blends is about 12 years.

[Gillman]

Interesting again. Those are low distilling-out proofs, similar to what malt whisky, Cognac and bourbon would be, or that neighborhood. Yet the character of the finished whiskies seems lighter to me than each of those.

Gary

[bonneamie]

I keep thinking the title of this thread is Knitting Ridge. C'mon you guys, where's all the knitting + booze posts?

[squire]

Sorry to disappoint, drinking and posting is doing two things at once and adding a third like thinking can be a bit much for us older guys.

[cowdery]

Interesting again. Those are low distilling-out proofs, similar to what malt whisky, Cognac and bourbon would be, or that neighborhood. Yet the character of the finished whiskies seems lighter to me than each of those.

Gary

He may have a short column but he does have a column and because it's a pot, he has the ability to keep working it so maybe he is able to fine tune the congener content at a lower proof. You can also do some of that in the earlier stages.

I confess that I'm also a little skeptical. I think he's using a corn base whiskey that's higher proof. I have to believe he can get to 90% on that still with two distillations if he really wants to.

[dbk]

I just came across

of John Hall discussing his copper pot stills. At the end, he confirms distilling only once and achieving ~65% ABV off the still via his modification.

If you want to get to this part of the video, you'll have to move past his statement at the beginning about fearing boredom as a multigenerational whisky maker.

[Gillman]

Good catch there, I hadn't realized the whiskeys come off that low, but is it all of them used in the blends? (Haven't watched yet).

Gary