What's In ORVW 10/90 or 10/107 These Days?

[doubleblank]

Some friends and I were tasting some older and newer ORVW's the other day. Some were from L'burg (SW whiskey), some from Frankfort but purchased several years ago (Bernheim whiskey) and some were fresh off the shelf (??????). There seemed to be something different going on in these newest releases. A little drier than I'm accustomed to in 10yo wheaters from Julian. Could BT wheated whiskey made from the SW recipie be in these newest bottlings?

In looking at older threads on this bottling, Julian swithched from SW to Bernheim for this bottling in 2005. BT apparently started distilling wheated whiskey to SW's recipie in the late 1990's (IIRC).....so Bernheim was needed for approximately 5 to 6 years. Is it now BT wheated whiskey in the bottle? My tastebuds tell me it is, but it could just be the latest barrel dump produced something a little different.

Randy

[sailor22]

Randy, I'm curious how you think the latest release compares to the older SW juice. Comparative tasting notes are called for. "Dryer' isn't enough to go on.:grin:

[Rughi]

From Mark Brown in 2002 about a wheated bourbon: (post 1, via an unnamed ex-user)

You may also not know that BT has been distilling this recipe for quite some time now.

This from JVW, 2003:

I'll be using BT whiskey for the first time perhaps next year for my 10-year old. Perhaps Julian meant Bernheim, but these stories always have a circuitous route to any one concise answer.

The quote I could swear I've read but can never find by Julian at the time of his agreement with BT is that he worked with them on how it would be produced. If that memory is correct, would this mean that BT wheaters changed at that time, or that the VW line was a different product? That's the most intriguing question to me, and your recent experience is quite exciting.

Roger

Edit:

Maybe my memory is from this musing by Chuck, not a Julian comment:

Part of Julian's alliance with BT calls for him to try to bring BT's wheated bourbon closer to the Van Winkle "family recipe"

[sailor22]

Julian, please feel free to chime in any time.......

[BourbonJoe]

My tastebuds tell me it is, but it could just be the latest barrel dump produced something a little different.

Randy

But the tastebuds of the Bourbonian Taster of the Year (2 years in a row)don't lie.

Joe :usflag:

[doubleblank]

In Roger's last referenced thread, Julian implies that BT started making Weller wheated whiskey using the SW recipe in 1998. This is supported by the Mark Brown quote that BT had been making wheated bourbon with the SW formula for a while in 2002. Julian further states that he would be using Bernheim whiskey for about 6 years (post dated Jan 2005) while waiting for the BT whiskey to mature. All this adds up to it's about time for BT's "SW" recipie to begin showing up in Julian's bottlings.

This also leads one to conclude that the current Weller products such as Weller 7/107 (oh, sorry, NAS/107) is BT distillate per SW recipe. Unless Roger's Q about two possible wheated whiskeys being made at BT is "yes". I'd venture to guess that BT is making only one wheated recipe, the SW recipe, and its what we currently find in the younger Weller products from BT and perhaps in Julian's 10 yos.

As to tasting notes, I get cotton candy in many SW whiskeys and to a lesser extent in JVW's selections from Bernheim. It was largely missing in this "fresh" 10/107 we tasted and seemed drier in the finish. Rest assured, the caramel is still there......but not like in the earlier bottlings to my tastes.

Randy

[Gillman]

I think that's right about OWA, the bottle change signaled it I think.

Gary

[BourbonJoe]

I think that's right about OWA, the bottle change signaled it I think.

Gary

I agree Gary. The new OWA is quite good IMO.

Joe :usflag:

[Rughi]

Unless Roger's Q about two possible wheated whiskeys being made at BT is "yes". I'd venture to guess that BT is making only one wheated recipe, the SW recipe, and its what we currently find in the younger Weller products from BT and perhaps in Julian's 10 yos.

Let me add one piece of pure conjecture.

It piqued my interest when I read about the upcoming EH Taylor line (5 years to go?) being modeled as a rye bourbon prestige companion to the Van Winkle line. If BT is willing to make a 3rd rye mash that's perhaps a bit more expensive to distill, why wouldn't they have used the same logic a few years previous to start making a 2nd wheater mash?

I would think the VW line will always be small enough that they could reject a quarter of the barrels from VW products and blend them into a Weller product without pulling the Weller profiles too far. I speculate also that the pre '72 "Real Deal Will McGill" product may have come off the still lower and into the barrel lower than BT would let their value priced Weller lines go - for cost efficiency's sake, of course.

But again, it's just speculation.

Roger

[OscarV]

If BT is now using thier own distilled wheater then their statement about "having plenty of Weller 12yo this Fall" is in line with the aforementioned speculation.

[dgonano]

Well, I am thrilled that BT has kept us so informed. Now that the wheater barrels have reached bottling age, I wonder if all were matured in the same warehouse, or once again have they created various taste profiles by the use of multiple warehouses. I will be visiting BT next week. I will try to get some answers.

[DeanSheen]

If BT is now using thier own distilled wheater then their statement about "having plenty of Weller 12yo this Fall" is in line with the aforementioned speculation.

[OscarV]

Where did they say that Oscar?

[JamesW]

All I can say is that my last bottle of ORVW 10/107 tasted like methane and cough syrup. This has been a staple for me and I'm hoping it was a bad bottle but I've heard from other avid drinkers that their bottles were also "funky" tasting. Whatever they changed, it is not good.

[T Comp]

All I can say is that my last bottle of ORVW 10/107 tasted like methane and cough syrup. This has been a staple for me and I'm hoping it was a bad bottle but I've heard from other avid drinkers that their bottles were also "funky" tasting. Whatever they changed, it is not good.

Maybe absence makes the heart grow founder but after a long period of no ORVW 10/107, last week I started in on a 2009 bottlng and it is nothing close to methane or cough syrup or funky. It is a classic wheater with a nose of light candy flavors of pecan, toffee and caramel, being true to those same flavors in taste. It is lacking a bit in complexity but I've been drinking quite a bit of it in conjuction with a 1995 Louisville-SW Special Reserve (both bottles being prisoners for my vacation) and the ORVW is the favorite.

[nor02lei]

Julian swithched from SW to Bernheim for this bottling in 2005. Randy

[nor02lei]

All I can say is that my last bottle of ORVW 10/107 tasted like methane and cough syrup. This has been a staple for me and I'm hoping it was a bad bottle but I've heard from other avid drinkers that their bottles were also "funky" tasting. Whatever they changed, it is not good.

[doubleblank]

Leif, your 2002 is almost certainly from SW per Julian's statements that he began using Bernheim in 2005 and the SW distillery was operating thru the summer of 2002 (so his youngest SW whiskey was just turning 10yo). But I have detected differences in various "batches" of ORVW products before. His bottling runs are failry small, short and infrequent....so some batches of 10/12/15yos might be a little older than others (again per Julian) or just taste different for other reasons.

So I can't say with any certainty that the "fresh" bottle of ORVW 10/107 is BT distilled whiskey.....but it is different. Fortunately I didn't get one with "cough syrup and methane". I am assuming the methane reference is to that which has had mercaptan added to it as raw methane has a sweet oily odor.

Randy

[ggilbertva]

Leif, your 2002 is almost certainly from SW per Julian's statements that he began using Bernheim in 2005 and the SW distillery was operating thru the summer of 2002 (so his youngest SW whiskey was just turning 10yo). But I have detected differences in various "batches" of ORVW products before. His bottling runs are failry small, short and infrequent....so some batches of 10/12/15yos might be a little older than others (again per Julian) or just taste different for other reasons.

So I can't say with any certainty that the "fresh" bottle of ORVW 10/107 is BT distilled whiskey.....but it is different. Fortunately I didn't get one with "cough syrup and methane". I am assuming the methane reference is to that which has had mercaptan added to it as raw methane has a sweet oily odor.

Randy

So then to understand the time line, does that mean that Julian used SW whiskey up to 2005 and that ORVW 10/107 bottlings were more than 10 years? I'm curious as I have a number of ORVW bottles that are 2004, 2006 and 2008. I just figured that the 2004 bottlings were Bernheim.

[doubleblank]

"Randy:

You are indeed correct sir!

We just started using Bernheim for our 10-year last spring since SW did indeed quit in spring, 1992.

VW 12, 15 20 & 23 are still SW.

Julian"

The above is from a post in Jan 2005. So any ORVW 10/107 from 2003 and early 2004 could contain SW whiskey older than 10 years......unless he tanked it.

I purchased my barrel of 12yo Lot B in the summer of 2004. I had wanted a barrel of ORVW 10/107 from SW but Julian had already switched to Bernheim at that time so I went with the 12yo.

Randy

[jburlowski]

If BT is now using thier own distilled wheater then their statement about "having plenty of Weller 12yo this Fall" is in line with the aforementioned speculation.

I heard something similar directly from a BT rep.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=194671&postcount=31

[tigerlam92]

I didn’t like the latest version I have had ether, but I hope/believe its just from a bad batch and that it will come out good again.

Leif

I agreed with Leif.

I'm an avid SW and van winkle bourbon drinker and I also agreed that the latest ORVW10/107 is not as good as before and actually not that good at all to my taste bud anymore. I am still hoping that after it gets some air it may open up but . . .

[SMOWK]

I've been through four or five bottles in the past six months or so, all current. I don't recognize anything off at all. I'll have to check the bunker to see if I have anything older to compare it to.

I'm always comparing ORVW10/107 to the PVW15 whenever I have them both open. I think they are very similar.