Transporting Bourbon?

[MJL]

I asked a similar question some time ago but I have an a little story and a question.

I took a WELL deserved vacation to the Great Amercian West in the last few weeks. On the way back to Florida I somehow arranged to swing through Kentucky. I wanted to take the Buffalo Trace tour but time got short so I opted instead for a visit to Liquor Barn in Louisville to stock up on some bourbons I cannot find in my area. I already had a few bottles of bourbon that I had picked up in Montana in the car and the results of the Liquor Barn expedition were not insubstantial. We headed out of Kentucky on Saturday headed to NC via Tennessee. While in Knoxville I stopped in at another liqour store and picked up another load of bottles that either I cannot find in Florida or are hard to find. We hit the road again and blazed a trail for JR Tobacco in Statesville, NC to pick up some of their fine cigars. We hit Statesville, NC with one hour to spare before JR closed. I ran in, grabbing bundles as I went, paid and headed for the door. I still had an hour before the ABC that was down the street from the hotel that we had made reservations at would close. We made our way to the ABC at 20:30 last Saturday night and I ran in to pick up what I knew was going to be my last purchase of the trip as the last drive home into Florida would be on Sunday. I spotted a few bottles of lower end bourbon that I had not seen in Florida and decided to pick them all up. I grabbed a cart and loaded it up. The two clerks then told me they could not sell all that fine whiskey to me. Talk about a smack in the face....not sell me all the booze I wanted to buy? Liquor Barn in Lousiville sold me boxes of the stuff. The place in TN ( I shall leave nameless) sold me credit card busting levels of the good stuff. This ABC in Statesville, NC would only sell me a measly 5 liters at a time. The guy behind the counter sized me up and added, "...if you transport more than 2 liters across state lines you need a special permit or you might be charged with bootlegging..." He must have seen the happy glimmer of gallons of whiskey lingering in the trunk of my rental car! Well, I bought my five liters and made my happy way out. Then, over a great BBQ supper (I know a great BBQ place in Statesville if anyone wants to a tip) I started to get paranoid. Maybe it was my watching Paper Moon just before going on my trip or the look in that ABC guy's eyes but something told me I had better watch my butt until I got out of NC. And so I did. I crept toward home the next day until I reached Florida in a safe and insanesly slow rate so as not to attract attention. Long story. Now my question. Have I just joined the ranks of Junior Johnson?

[ILLfarmboy]

... I grabbed a cart and loaded it up. The two clerks then told me they could not sell all that fine whiskey to me.

People like that grate on me. What law would he have broke selling it to you? F'n government lackeys. What has happened to the spirit of defiance in this country?

[matthew0715]

Actually, if this document I found through a Google search is current, the limit for spirits sale in North Carolina is 8 liters (see page 21).

As Col. Cowdery has detailed elsewhere, the only way to get the 21st amendment passed and repeal Prohibition was to give the states nearly unlimited control over the production, distribution, sale and possession of beverage alcohol. I never knew before this search of a purchase limit, but there it is.

[MJL]

(

Prima Facie Evidence. – Possession of the following amounts of alcoholic

beverages, without a permit authorizing that possession, shall be prima facie evidence

that the possessor is possessing those alcoholic beverages for sale:

(1) More than 80 liters of malt beverages, other than draft malt beverages in

kegs;

(2) More than eight liters of spirituous liquor

Above from the linked document. I'm not saying how much bourbon I transited NC with but I am actually offended by the above statement. I do not consider myself to be a drunk by a long shot. The assumption of the above portion of the law seems to suggest one must be a drunk or bootlegger to posses more than eight liters of spirits.

[ggilbertva]

(

Prima Facie Evidence. – Possession of the following amounts of alcoholic

beverages, without a permit authorizing that possession, shall be prima facie evidence

that the possessor is possessing those alcoholic beverages for sale:

(1) More than 80 liters of malt beverages, other than draft malt beverages in

kegs;

(2) More than eight liters of spirituous liquor

Above from the linked document. I'm not saying how much bourbon I transited NC with but I am actually offended by the above statement. I do not consider myself to be a drunk by a long shot. The assumption of the above portion of the law seems to suggest one must be a drunk or bootlegger to posses more than eight liters of spirits.

[Special Reserve]

Our very caring and compassionate Gubmit simply wants to make sure you don't turn into a drunk or engage in bootlegging. By limiting your purchases, they're helping you maintain control. Besides, what if you were to drive by a school yard and one of your bootleg bottles happen to fall near a playground? Come on.....think of the children.

[harshest]

Now my question. Have I just joined the ranks of Junior Johnson?

If you were coming back into Michigan with a trunk load of liquor without prior approval from the "Commission", then yes.

What is the legal allowance for alcohol products being brought into Michigan?

State liquor laws require persons who wish to bring any type of alcoholic beverage into Michigan for personal consumption to obtain prior written approval of the Commission with the following exceptions:

• A person of legal age who has been outside the U.S. territorial limits for at least 48 hours and has not brought alcoholic liquor into Michigan during the past 30 days, may bring up to one liter into Michigan without prior approval.

• A person of legal age may bring up to 312 ounces of alcoholic liquor that contains less than 21% alcohol by volume (about 24 –12 ounce containers of beer or 12 – 750ml containers of wine) from another state without prior approval.

[cowdery]

Tennessee law actually limits how much liquor you may possess, even in your own home. I venture to say most of our Tennessee members are fugitives from justice whether they know it or not.

[Jono]

http://www.state.il.us/lcc/docs/import.pdf

Illinois law states:

Requests for Import Authorization:

"Generally, individuals are not permitted to import more than one gallon of alcoholic beverages into Illinois. Illinois

is a “Three-Tier†system in which all alcohol greater than one gallon passes first from importers or manufacturers to

distributors and then to retailers before finally being offered for sale to consumers.

The Commission, however, can make exceptions on a case by case basis for individuals who are returning or moving to

Illinois from overseas with personal collections of alcoholic beverages."

"WHY DO YOU NEED IMPORT AUTHORIZATION? (If necessary, please attach separate sheet)"

A form is included that you could fill out for official permission....not sure if

anyone has ever gone that route for personal purchasing. In this state, I am sure there is a political payoff required.....

REQUEST FOR IMPORT AUTHORIZATION

Plus

Illinois Department of Revenue

ST-44 Illinois Use Tax Return

(235 ILCS 5/6-17.2)

Sec. 6-17.2. Importation of alcoholic liquor into this State. A person who imports into this State from any point in the United States outside this State, whether for himself or for another, any alcoholic liquor for sale or resale is required to hold a license issued by the Commission in accordance with this Act, except as otherwise expressly authorized by this Act.

"for sale or resale"....what about personal consumption?

(235 ILCS 5/6-29.1)

Sec. 6-29.1. Direct shipments of alcoholic liquor.

"Any person manufacturing, distributing, or selling alcoholic liquor who knowingly ships or transports or causes the shipping or transportation of any alcoholic liquor from a point outside this State to a person in this State who does not hold a manufacturer's, distributor's, importing distributor's, or non-resident dealer's license issued by the Liquor Control Commission, other than a shipment of sacramental wine to a bona fide religious organization, a shipment authorized by Section 6-29, subparagraph (17) of Section 3-12, or any other shipment authorized by this Act, is in violation of this Act.

The Commission, upon determining, after investigation, that a person has violated this Section, >> "shall give notice to the person by certified mail to cease and desist all shipments of alcoholic liquor into this State and to withdraw from this State within 5 working days after receipt of the notice all shipments of alcoholic liquor then in transit."

Whenever the Commission has reason to believe that a person has failed to comply with the Commission notice under this Section, it shall notify the Department of Revenue and file a complaint with the State's Attorney of the county where the alcoholic liquor was delivered or with appropriate law enforcement officials.

Failure to comply with the notice issued by the Commission under this Section constitutes a business offense for which the person shall be fined not more than $1,000 for a first offense, not more than $5,000 for a second offense, and not more than $10,000 for a third or subsequent offense. Each shipment of alcoholic liquor delivered in violation of the cease and desist notice shall constitute a separate offense.

[OscarV]

Have I just joined the ranks of Junior Johnson?

No, JJ never paid taxes on his hooch but you did and NC should be grateful.

[rocky480]

If you were to come to Virginia, you would no doubt want to follow the rules the ABC has established:

§ 4.1-310. Illegal importation, shipment and transportation of alcoholic beverages; penalty; exception.

E. The provisions of this chapter shall not prohibit (i) any person from bringing, in his personal possession, or through United States Customs in his accompanying baggage, into the Commonwealth not for resale, alcoholic beverages in an amount not to exceed one gallon or four liters if any part of the alcoholic beverages being transported is held in metric-sized containers, (ii) the shipment or transportation into the Commonwealth of a reasonable quantity of alcoholic beverages not for resale in the personal or household effects of a person relocating his place of residence to the Commonwealth, or (iii) the possession or storage of alcoholic beverages on passenger boats, dining cars, buffet cars and club cars, licensed under this title, or common carriers engaged in interstate or foreign commerce.

So, you can buy as much as you would like in the state, but be sure not to lose any more than four liters worth of tax revenue to another state at any one time.

Mike

[cowdery]

This might be a good place to point out that HR 5034, which is presently in committee, would give even more authority to the states (if that's possible) and make this sort of thing even worse (if that's possible).

[TNbourbon]

Tennessee law actually limits how much liquor you may possess, even in your own home. I venture to say most of our Tennessee members are fugitives from justice whether they know it or not.

[cowdery]

I'm legal, anymore!:frown: Sad, ain't it?

[TBC]

Tennessee law actually limits how much liquor you may possess, even in your own home. I venture to say most of our Tennessee members are fugitives from justice whether they know it or not.

[ILLfarmboy]

http://www.state.il.us/lcc/docs/import.pdf

Illinois law states:

Requests for Import Authorization:

"Generally, individuals are not permitted to import more than one gallon of alcoholic beverages into Illinois.

[sgtgto]

Customs has never said anything to me in regards to the states I would be traveling to. It is not their place to enforce state laws. Nor is it TSA's.

But driving... You would have to have a pretty over zealous cop stop you, obtain reason to search your car, and care enough to arrest you.. assuming they knew the law. While technically illegal.. as long as you are transporting it out of view, and do not commit any crimes, who will know?

[Special Reserve]

Customs has never said anything to me in regards to the states I would be traveling to. It is not their place to enforce state laws. Nor is it TSA's.

[dmarkle]

So for the NoVA members in here..

I had heard stories that the VA ABC agents (yes, we have agents) hang out at Calvert Woodley (a big liquor store with some great deals on scotch, in particular) in DC and follow people with VA license plates back across the border whereupon they are cited for smuggling the good stuff into our fine Commonwealth.

Can someone give any credence to these rumors?

[gblick]

In Texas you are only allowed to bring in one quart of distilled spirits from out of state. For beer it's one case. For wine it's 3 gallons.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/poe/how_much_can_i_bring_back.asp

But if you are moving/relocating into Texas you can bring an unlimited wine collection along with your other household goods.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/poe/moving_to_texas.asp

[ggilbertva]

So for the NoVA members in here..

I had heard stories that the VA ABC agents (yes, we have agents) hang out at Calvert Woodley (a big liquor store with some great deals on scotch, in particular) in DC and follow people with VA license plates back across the border whereupon they are cited for smuggling the good stuff into our fine Commonwealth.

Can someone give any credence to these rumors?

I've not heard of that and based on my past indiscretions, I guess I'll have to start performing a surveillance detection routine (SDR) to shake any tails when shopping in DC.

[cowdery]

I believe all state alcoholic beverage control boards have their own police force that handles enforcement. They involve the regular state police and local law enforcement as appropriate.

There are many states where an adjacent state has better selection, better prices or both. Both Indiana and Kentucky are better than Ohio. There have always been several large liquor stores on the Kentucky side of the river that cater primarily to citizens of Cincinnati. For as long as I can remember there have been stories about periodic enforcement actions but I'm not sure how true they are. I'm sure it has been done although this is one case where the rumors are probably worse than the reality. They count on that, of course. A widespread rumor that people are being busted is even better than the real thing at deterrence.

[BourbonJoe]

So for the NoVA members in here..

I had heard stories that the VA ABC agents (yes, we have agents) hang out at Calvert Woodley (a big liquor store with some great deals on scotch, in particular) in DC and follow people with VA license plates back across the border whereupon they are cited for smuggling the good stuff into our fine Commonwealth.

Can someone give any credence to these rumors?

I can't speak about NoVa but it happened to me in Maryland back when the Feds would follow cars back to the PA line from the liquor stores on Route 40. We got nailed one time and paid a $500.00 fine, lost $1000.00 worth of booze and almost had the car impounded. Be very careful.

Joe :usflag:

[cowdery]

Feds? As in Treasury agents? And not the state ABC? That doesn't sound right. That's not really their jurisdiction, unless they were assisting the locals.

[dmarkle]

I can't speak about NoVa but it happened to me in Maryland back when the Feds would follow cars back to the PA line from the liquor stores on Route 40. We got nailed one time and paid a $500.00 fine, lost $1000.00 worth of booze and almost had the car impounded. Be very careful.

Joe :usflag: