True or False: Older wheaters (10+) are generally better than young (8yrs or less)

[jmpyle]

What's the opinion of the group?

[kickert]

What's the opinion of the group?

[gblick]

I can't speak for the group, but for me the proof factors into it perhaps moreso than the age. For instance, I prefer OWA and ORVW 10/107 more than Weller 12 and Lot B, and I prefer PVW 15 more than the PVW 20. And I think that the higher proof is what does it for me. But I know my taste is not typical, as a lot of folks here like the Weller 12 more than the OWA, etc.

[White Dog]

Great question, and I'll enjoy reading the responses.

I've often heard that wheaters take better to longer aging than rye bourbons, but I would suggest that there are always exceptions.

IMHO the Vintage 17yr has perfect oak integration, and I love Pappy 20, but the PVW23 is a bit much for me. Also, I prefer Antique to Weller 12yr, but that could also be a matter of proof. (I mostly go neat.) While drinking 2009 WLW, I often wish for more aging. Also, I could drink ORVW10yr 107 all the time, but I never want more age on that one.

All my rambling basically means that, for me, it depends.

[Josh]

I think Wheaters peak at 12-15 years.

:iagreeben:

:fish2: :fish2: :fish2::fish2:

[callmeox]

What's the opinion of the group?

What is this "better" that you speak of?

[jmpyle]

What is this "better" that you speak of?

By better, I mean.......what do you like better?

[callmeox]

The flavors that enjoy in whiskey come from the barrel, so I prefer older bourbon and rye expressions with some exceptions.

[TomH]

I really cannot give a younger/older answer to this question.

While I seldom find a 12-15 YO wheater than I don't like, the same cannot be said of older wheaters. I have found many older ones too woody for my taste, PVW 23 a prime example. However, when I find an older one that I like (e.g. Parker's 27 YO, a Willett 27 YO SW, and several of the recent Cask Strength botllings from the Diagio barrels) I find that I enjoy them more than many of the younger ones.

However, if pushed to give a simple answer, I would probably give in and say I prefer the 12-15 year old bottlings simply because my favorite pour is still ORVW 15/107

Tom

[TNbourbon]

I would posit that today's wheaters require longer aging because of higher barrel-entry proofs. And, seemingly, there isn't a damn thing we can do about it!

Most of the finest wheated bourbons I've ever had descend from the Fitzgerald line, whether Old, Very Old, or just related to cousin William Larue Weller. None of them topped 100 proof, nor did any any of them pass 8 years.

Compare that with perhaps THE finest bourbon I've ever had, period: a barrel sample, 21yo, would-be "Pappy" I received some years ago in trade with Preston Van Winkle. See here:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=91237&postcount=1:

and/or here:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7473&highlight=Pappy

It was 21+ years old and 115+-proof, but of a piece with those many earlier Fitzes and Wellers, including via their distillation (@ Stitzel-Weller). So, why were the younger, 'tamer' ones so similar? The significant difference (or, as it were, similarity), to me, is the barrel-entry proof.

This, by the way, is the one factor that causes me to sometimes be a hesitant convert when Chuck calls the modern bourbon industy its "Golden Age" -- the nagging hint that it could be oh, so much better if only some of the old ways still were regnant!

[BourbonJoe]

The older the better, to a point, in my book. I also agree with Tim that the wheaters of yesterday far outshine those of today.

Joe :usflag:

[sailor22]

Is there a 4yr or 6yr wheater currently on the market?

I don't see a direct relationship between age and "better". It's hard to argue that the Parkers wheater isn't completely ready at 10yrs. I have had Pappy 23s that were a mouthful of burnt toothpicks and one that is very well balanced and I loves me some Pappy 20 and 15 so it's hard to generalize.

Perhaps the relationship of yeast, entry proof, the particular barrel and the aging location are more important than actual age in determining the length of time a wheater needs to be in the barrel to achieve a good balance.

[OscarV]

I would answer "true" to the thread's question with emphasis on "generally".

[jmpyle]

I would answer "true" to the thread's question with emphasis on "generally".

Ha ha. I threw "generally" in there for those that have exceptions but still have a preference. That was the key word.

Interestingly I think there's a lot of agreement on this thread. There are exceptions for they "younger" category, "the good ole days" did it a bit better, and some of the really old ones may have some diminished returns.

For me, Pappy 15 is the hallmark wheater. I think 20 is almost as good but I'd rather see it higher proof. In general though, I think older wheaters beat the pants off the younger ones.

My theory is that Wheated Bourbons age more gracefully than rye heavy ones. They seem to have a good 3-5+ years more leeway, minimum, before they become unbalanced oak tannin bombs. The extra age adds more spice and character, something younger wheaters miss. That is my opinion.

[Gillman]

I would say yes and that the explanation is probably because of what Tim said, i.e., higher modern entry proofs (and what I believe is younger tree stock for barrels) make for whiskey that benefits from longer aging than in the past.

Tim, a possible counter-argument is that in the past they bottled whiskey often much older than the stated age.

Gary

[M14Shooter]

I general I like my Wheaters in the 10-15 year old range.My favorite currently are Pappy 15,Lot B and Old Rip Van Winkle 10 year .I think like other have said the extra time in cask adds a lot more flavor.

However I still enjoy OWA,Weller Special Reserve,Old Fitz BIB.

When I can find it I want to try the new Parkers Heritage Wheater.

Regards, Mike

[nor02lei]

I general I like my Wheaters in the 10-15 year old range.

Regards, Mike

[TNbourbon]

...Tim, a possible counter-argument is that in the past they bottled whiskey often much older than the stated age...

[Gillman]

Of course those BIB offerings would have been the best they had, but certainly point taken Tim.

Gary

[BBQ+Bourbon]

That's an impossible question, but a great discussion starter. For me, wheaters peak between 7 and 15 years typically.

As I'm watching the Chiefs do their level best to squander their lead over the Bills, I'm having a few small pours of SW wheaters. The Weller 12 is great, but the Louisville OWA is my favorite. SW OWA may be the perfect bourbon for me. It has a 7 year statement but somebody-I think Cowdrey- mentioned that it was close to 9 years.

Pappy 15 is also great, as is the ORVW 10/107, especially near the bottom of a bottle. Few bourbons produced today can stand up to the last 1/3 of an ORVW 10/107.

The oldest wheaters I've had are the 17 year R/E and the Pappy 20. While both are very good, they are past their prime in my view. I'm determined to find a 19 year old WLW though, as a barrel proof 19 year old wheater just screams out for a taste.

[BBQ+Bourbon]

AAANNNNNDDD!!! Flowers smokes Evans to strip the ball, and KC recovers the fumble with 4:00 to go!

Well damnit, the ball goes back to Buffalo.

[stillmaster]

New hope for KC with OT!! This calls for my favorite Weller 12, right age, rite proof for me.

[ethangsmith]

I have a bunch of wheated bourbons in my stash and it does seem the older ones are better. The first time I drank some of my Henry McKenna 10yo BIB, I didn't like it, but it was because it was a new flavor to me. Now that I've sipped it a few more times, I've made sense of the flavors (for lack of a better term) and really enjoy it. Oddly, I also like my 3 year old 80 proof Cabin Still. It's all but moonshine, but it's tasty for some reason.

[fishnbowljoe]

I would say that as a general statement, it is true. Now for a little thread drift. :smiley_acbt:

Y'all know I love me some wheaters. :grin: My preferences for bourbon for the most part, are those that are aged 7-12 years, and around 100 proof. (I believe most folks call this "the sweet spot" :cool: ) That being said, there are always allowances. Weller SR and Weller 12 @ 90 proof, and Pappy 15 aged 15 years. Plus others too numerous to mention. Hey! It's all good! :slappin:

The following is a list of wheaters that are 7+ years old. I compiled this list using information gleaned from different posts here on SB, and my own sometimes faulty memory. :skep: Feel free to add or make any corrections if I missed any.

Weller Special Reserve

Old Weller Antique

Weller Centennial I know it isn't produced any more, but I had to include it

Weller 12 Year Old

William Larue Weller from the BTAC

Old Rip Van Winkle 10/90

Old Rip Van Winkle 10/107

Old Rip Van Winkle 15/107 again, not made any more

Old Rip Van Winkle 23

Lot B

Pappy 15

Pappy 20

Pappy 23

Very Special Old Fitzgerald

Very Old Fitzgerald, Very Very Old Fitgerald etc. etc. etc. Once again, not made any more, but......

Jefferson's Presidential Select

2010 Parker's Heritage Collection

Numerous Willett barrel strength bottlings/private bottlings

Is there a 4yr or 6yr wheater currently on the market?

Again using info found here on SB, and my memory, the bourbons that I can think of are;

Old Fitzgerald BIB,

Old Fitzgerald Prime,

Old Fitzgerald 1849

Maker's Mark Although MM is not age stated, IIRC, it is usually bottled at an average age of around 6 1/2 years

Rebel Yell?

Cabin Still?

David Nicholson 1843?

Not sure if these three are still made using a wheated recipe or not. IIRC, there has been some semi-recent discussion on RY and/or Cabin Still.

As for my own personal preferences, well...... in no particular order, Weller 12, WLW, Lot B, and Pappy 15.

Now that I'm done, I'm having a small pour of Weller 12. Cheers! :yum: Joe

[TNbourbon]

...I'm determined to find a 19 year old WLW though, as a barrel proof 19 year old wheater just screams out for a taste.

The original BTAC Weller 19yo wasn't bottled at barrel-proof, but at 90 proof, same as the then-contemporary 'other', original BTACs, Saz 18 and Eagle Rare 17.