True or False: Older wheaters (10+) are generally better than young (8yrs or less)

[ILLfarmboy]

My preferences for bourbon for the most part, are those that are aged 7-12 years,

[T Comp]

Great question, and I'll enjoy reading the responses.

I've often heard that wheaters take better to longer aging than rye bourbons, but I would suggest that there are always exceptions.

IMHO the Vintage 17yr has perfect oak integration,...

I never thought Vintage 17 was a wheater but I guess as a KBD bottling who knows for sure.

I have a bunch of wheated bourbons in my stash and it does seem the older ones are better. The first time I drank some of my Henry McKenna 10yo BIB, I didn't like it, but it was because it was a new flavor to me. ...

Now Henry McKenna I think I can be sure is not a wheater.

[White Dog]

I never thought Vintage 17 was a wheater but I guess as a KBD bottling who knows for sure.

Vintage 17yr is definitely a wheater, and I believe it's Bernheim. Anyone care to chime in on that?

[Lost Pollito]

Delete. Missed the Rebel.

[OscarV]

I never thought Vintage 17 was a wheater but I guess as a KBD bottling who knows for sure.

Vintage 17yr is definitely a wheater, and I believe it's Bernheim. Anyone care to chime in on that?

I'm not saying you are wrong but if I had to bet on it I'd put my money on it's a ryed bourbon.

[birdman1099]

I'm not saying you are wrong but if I had to bet on it I'd put my money on it's a ryed bourbon.

Actually, word is..... It used to be a ryed bourbon, but with all the excessive Bernheim stock they have at 17 yrs, that is what they are putting in the bottles now....

[TomH]

Beginning April 2010 Vintage 17 became a wheater. Unfortunately there is no way to tell from the bottle itself if it is the wheat or rye (the case is dated). Since I have not seen the barrels and we have beat the horse to death previously I'm not going to make any comments on the source be it Bernheim or SW.

Tom

[SMOWK]

I love disputes when both people are right.

I haven't had Vintage 17 in quite some time. The last bottle I had smelled like an indoor pool. Even after a few visits to the bottle, I still got some kind of Chlorine indoor pool aroma from it.

I liked it, but not enough to buy another bottle. The indoor pool aroma was somewhat reminiscent of my youth, which was mostly spent swimming wherever I could.

[StraightBoston]

Late to the discussion, but: what Tim (TNBourbon) said.

The "older" that is the best predictor to me of "better" is the year of production, not the years in the wood. Some of my all-time favorite bourbons are Stitzel-Wellers at 5-7 years (which is not to say that the 15yo VW from Japan isn't sublime!) Whether it's the entry proof, whether it's the yeast, whether it's the wood itself, the older (made) stuff generally seems better -- I've also had some unforgivably hot Cabin Still from the 60's!

One thing that I do think is "true" is that wheaters generally age better than rye-recipe bourbons of the same age once you get above 15 or so years. I'm one of the ones who preferred blue-wax Hirsch 16 to the red-wax 20 (but then I love BMH 21yo, so what do I know?)

[White Dog]

I'm not saying you are wrong but if I had to bet on it I'd put my money on it's a ryed bourbon.

Just to clarify, the Vintage 17yr Bourbon that I'm discussing is the one released this year, and not any previous releases.

[The Boozer]

I suspect anything "older" is generally better than any of the "newer" or "younger" bourbons, regardless of rye or wheat.

[B.B. Babington]

I suspect anything "older" is generally better than any of the "newer" or "younger" bourbons, regardless of rye or wheat.

I'm sure some folks will disagree. I'm a big fan of time in wood and, unlike others, have never found a bottle I thought spent too much time in the barrel. But, age is just one factor of very very very many factors.

[The Boozer]

I'm sure some folks will disagree. I'm a big fan of time in wood and, unlike others, have never found a bottle I thought spent too much time in the barrel. But, age is just one factor of very very very many factors.

That's why I used the term "generally". I'm in agreement with OscarV (see post #13). The man's got uber taste buds which is why he is the Big Dog!!

[TNbourbon]

That's why I used the term "generally". I'm in agreement with OscarV (see post #13). The man's got uber taste buds which is why he is the Big Dog!!

Well, granted, I got nothin' on Oscar -- but I think you're talking 'apples', and I'm thinking 'oranges'.

Most of my significant and germane experience with wheaters is 'older' -- as in, 'distilled earlier' -- not 'older', as in 'longer in the barrel'. And, I'll repeat what is, by now, a standard mantra of mine:

For any brand/label/distillate that spans eras (think, W.L. Weller, Old Fitzgerald, Jim Beam, Jack Daniel's, Old Taylor, Old Grand-Dad, et al), 'older' -- as in "distilled earlier" -- is better!:bowdown: Regardless of how long it spent in its barrel!

More recently, current Pappy 23 is much more 'woody' and oaky than those bottled in 1999 and 2001, for example, and just not as good, in my humble :blush: opinion. But, if you didn't buy those relatively limited editions, how would you know -- ya know?:skep:

I don't really like the current Pappy 15 everyone else raves about, at least compared to the defunct precursor, ORVW 15 -- just too much oak! But, if you've never had the latter, how do you compare the former?

In short, I'm just suggesting you categorize your generalizations within distilling eras -- because previous renditions may well be different animals altogether.

[B.B. Babington]

That's why I used the term "generally"...

Ah, I think I see your point. If ya take something and bottle it and take the same thing and age it in a barrel for more years, the older stuff will always be better. I'm with you, in almost all cases, the more wood, the better. Some others will disagree, for some find too much wood in some things.

[The Boozer]

Well, granted, I got nothin' on Oscar -- but I think you're talking 'apples', and I'm thinking 'oranges'.

Most of my significant and germane experience with wheaters is 'older' -- as in, 'distilled earlier' -- not 'older', as in 'longer in the barrel'. And, I'll repeat what is, by now, a standard mantra of mine:

For any brand/label/distillate that spans eras (think, W.L. Weller, Old Fitzgerald, Jim Beam, Jack Daniel's, Old Taylor, Old Grand-Dad, et al), 'older' -- as in "distilled earlier" -- is better!:bowdown: Regardless of how long it spent in its barrel!

More recently, current Pappy 23 is much more 'woody' and oaky than those bottled in 1999 and 2001, for example, and just not as good, in my humble :blush: opinion. But, if you didn't buy those relatively limited editions, how would you know -- ya know?:skep:

I don't really like the current Pappy 15 everyone else raves about, at least compared to the defunct precursor, ORVW 15 -- just too much oak! But, if you've never had the latter, how do you compare the former?

In short, I'm just suggesting you categorize your generalizations within distilling eras -- because previous renditions may well be different animals altogether.

I think were reading the same book, different pages. My comment was more along the lines of JBW @ 4 yrs v JBB @ 8 years, or BH at 9 years (same proof as JBW). I'm talking today not distant past. This might be a stretch but OWA 107 @ 7 years v ORVW 107 @ 10 years v Pappy 15. Again, this is not exact truth but just a generalization. Most prefer ORVW &/or Pappy over OWA. Of course IMHO.

[matthew0715]

I think were reading the same book, different pages. My comment was more along the lines of JBW @ 4 yrs v JBB @ 8 years, or BH at 9 years (same proof as JBW). I'm talking today not distant past. This might be a stretch but OWA 107 @ 7 years v ORVW 107 @ 10 years v Pappy 15. Again, this is not exact truth but just a generalization. Most prefer ORVW &/or Pappy over OWA. Of course IMHO.

[The Boozer]

Matt,

The post was in response to age not mashbills. I know BH is not the same mashbill as JB.

[SMOWK]

I really like the woody stuff. It's a flavor that can only be obtained by spending 20 years or so in a barrel. I like to save up the charred bits in the bottom of the unfiltered stuff. When I have enough, I pour milk on it and eat it.

[Josh]

I was once on a tour of 4R's Cox Creek facility and we got to sample some whiskey right out of the barrel. One of the guys on the tour asked for, and received, extra char. I don't remember if he actually swallowed it. He did try to grope me later that day tho.

[SMOWK]

I was once on a tour of 4R's Cox Creek facility and we got to sample some whiskey right out of the barrel. One of the guys on the tour asked for, and received, extra char. I don't remember if he actually swallowed it. He did try to grope me later that day tho.

:slappin::slappin:

I love the stuff. I must say that I also love the bottom of a cup of french press coffee as well. I like getting down to the Nitty Gritty.

[callmeox]

I was once on a tour of 4R's Cox Creek facility and we got to sample some whiskey right out of the barrel. One of the guys on the tour asked for, and received, extra char. I don't remember if he actually swallowed it. He did try to grope me later that day tho.

Barrel char = Funky Cold Medina

[SMOWK]

Barrel char = Funky Cold Medina

As a reference, here's the video.

Tone Loc - Funky Cold Medina

[CorvallisCracker]

Josh (some call him Dirk) writes:

He did try to grope me later that day tho.

It's your fault for wearing those tight jeans.

On the subject of old vs young wheaters, lessee,

I like Weller 12 more than Weller SR.

I like current VSOF more than current OF 1849.

I like Lot B and PVW 15 better than ORVW 10/107 (although I'm still convinced that the only bottle I bought of the ORVW was from a bad batch).

I like PVW 20 better than PVW 15.

Price increases faster than quality, however. PVW 20 costs roughly four times what Weller SR costs. It's not four times better.

[Josh]

:slappin::slappin:

...I like getting down to the Nitty Gritty.

Barrel char = Funky Cold Medina

It's your fault for wearing those tight jeans.

No means no. I'm going to keep telling grown-ups until one of them believes me.