Is '10 Stagg barrel strength '10 Eagle Rare 17?

[scratchline]

So I'm enjoying an Eagle Rare "17" that I'd forgotten I had. 2007. The only one I have actually. Or ever have had. Turns out that it's 19 years old according to SB threads.

So I'm wondering: Is this year's Stagg, at 17 years 7month old, barrel proof Eagle Rare 17? I have too few fact sheets and have had too many Eagle Rare 19s to answer the question myself.

Please help.

-Mike

And lest this thread die prematurely, please share your impressions of the '07 Eagle Rare 17 and/or the '10 Stagg if you're so inclined.

[Skunk]

And lest this thread die prematurely, please share your impressions of the '07 Eagle Rare 17 and/or the '10 Stagg if you're so inclined.

10 Stagg was unobtanium around here this year, but I was lucky enough to try it a couple times. The last time was a couple weeks ago at a local liquor store and I distinctly remember getting more mint than I'm used to w/ Stagg. HTH.

[sku]

Given that they are the same mashbill, I suppose any 17 yo Stagg could be considered a cask strength version of Eagle Rare 17.

One strange things on the specs for this year is that both say they are aged 17 years, 17 months and bottled in fall of 2010, but the sheets say Stagg was distilled in the winter of 1993, while the ER was distilled in the spring of 1993.

[dgonano]

You have to determine the warehouse letter. Same mashbill..different warehouse...different taste.

[sku]

This year's Stagg: Warehouses H,I,K,L; Floors 1,2,3,4,5,8,9

ER: Warehouses C,H,I,Q,K; Floors 1,2,3,4,6

Some same warehouses, some different.

[B.B. Babington]

This year's Stagg: Warehouses H,I,K,L; Floors ,2,3,4,5,8,9 ER: Warehouses C,H,I,Q,K; Floors 1,2,3,4,6...

Hum, this may be popping my bubble. I thought Stagg barrel locations were chosen to maximize daily and seasonal temp and humidity differences over and above other locations. So, ER17 is not much different than watered Stagg?

...specs for this year is that both say they are aged 17 years, 17 months and bottled in fall of 2010, but the sheets say Stagg was distilled in the winter of 1993, while the ER was distilled in the spring of 1993.

Maybe easy to explain? They gear up for different processes at different times. Distill to tank till they set up for barrelling. Barrel at the same time. Then dump and bottle at the same time. That makes good sense for efficiency.

[kickert]

Maybe easy to explain? They gear up for different processes at different times. Distill to tank till they set up for barrelling. Barrel at the same time. Then dump and bottle at the same time. That makes good sense for efficiency.

The date discrepancy could be even easier to explain. There has to a certain day where the Winter/Spring distinction is made. Since the age is only listed in months, there should be a 30 day span where spirits would be considered the same age. If that 30 day span overlapped the winter/spring transition, they both claims could easily be right.

[dmarkle]

Hum, this may be popping my bubble. I thought Stagg barrel locations were chosen to maximize daily and seasonal temp and humidity differences over and above other locations. So, ER17 is not much different than watered Stagg?

[barturtle]

Unless the products were out of the same barrel, it would be incorrect to say that they are the same product in both cut and uncut form. Similar, maybe, but the same, no.

If you've ever tasted down a row of barrels in a rickhouse, you'll know how different they can be.

[JohnHansell]

Unless the products were out of the same barrel, it would be incorrect to say that they are the same product in both cut and uncut form. Similar, maybe, but the same, no.

If you've ever tasted down a row of barrels in a rickhouse, you'll know how different they can be.

You got that right. Amazing how different the barrel a foot away can taste.

[cowdery]

Hum, this may be popping my bubble. I thought Stagg barrel locations were chosen to maximize daily and seasonal temp and humidity differences over and above other locations. So, ER17 is not much different than watered Stagg?

Maybe easy to explain? They gear up for different processes at different times. Distill to tank till they set up for barrelling. Barrel at the same time. Then dump and bottle at the same time. That makes good sense for efficiency.

The spirit is not designated as Stagg or Eagle Rare or anything else when it leaves the still. It is whatever mash bill it is, it goes into the barrel, and then gets put away wherever there is available space, which is always at a premium. It doesn't become Stagg or Eagle Rare or anything else until much later, when it doesn't get picked to be one of the younger products that uses that mash bill. Even then it's just a candidate for Stagg or Eagle Rare or whatever. When they go looking for something to bottle as 2011 Stagg they will go to the usual places, to barrels that fit the specs, and test them against the Stagg profile. Likewise the Eagle Rare profile. The profile, rarely mentioned in these discussions, is the key. The specs make it eligible to be Stagg but it's not going to be dumped and bottled as Stagg unless it fits the profile.

[dgonano]

Well of course Chuck, it has to fit the profile for Eagle Rare. But Stagg was never meant to have a taste profile.

[B.B. Babington]

The spirit is not designated as Stagg or Eagle Rare or anything else when it leaves the still...

I understand it's all the same beer for #1 and another beer for #2 and it all comes out o' the same pipe to go to barrels.

...When they go looking for something to bottle as 2011 Stagg they will go to the usual places, to barrels that fit the specs, and test them against the Stagg profile...

This is the crux of my misconception. I thought they looked for barrels in particular places hoping to find the profile. These are the barrels where one finds the drastic increase in proof seen with stagg. Barrel location is critical for this increase in proof rather than decrease, correct? Is typical BT barrel proof this high or is it normally ranging mid-120's to mid-130's?

[TNbourbon]

FWIW -- in a great year, the ER17 is my favorite of the Antiques, never mind the proof or provenance.

I trust Ronnie, et al, with barrel selection.

Trouble is, then, tasting the stuff before buying.

[B.B. Babington]

...in a great year, the ER17 is my favorite of the Antiques,...

[cowdery]

Well of course Chuck, it has to fit the profile for Eagle Rare. But Stagg was never meant to have a taste profile.

[dgonano]

"The current release of Stagg was honestly a fluke. We just found some barrels that got lost the shuffle and we liked the taste and decided to release them as Stagg (since they were over 15 years old and represented a different flavor profile than earlier vintages). The Sazerac Rye and Eagle Rare 17 will come out in August/September. Hopefully, we will have more this year than last!"

That was a quote from Ken Weber referring to the Spring 2004 bottling.

I knew that would rankle you Charles. Of course it currently has a taste profile, but originally it was just found whiskey.

Anyway, if you go back a few years, you will find the entire batch of Stagg came from the same warehouse. Eagle Rare from a different one.

[cowdery]

Let's also just say that Ken's version of the story differs significantly from that of his former employer.

I also know you like to pull my chain.

But, as you concede, as sales of the brand have grown, and grown a lot, it has developed a profile which I'm sure they try to match from vintage to vintage, which is not the same profile at Eagle Rare 17.

While for Eagle Rare they seem to favor barrels that have developed slowly so they aren't overly woody when dumped, for Stagg they look for maximum absorption of wood notes. Eagle Rare is supposed to be elegant and refined whereas Stagg is a powerhouse, as big as bourbon gets.

Wouldn't you agree, Dave?

[TNbourbon]

...While for Eagle Rare they seem to favor barrels that have developed slowly so they aren't overly woody when dumped, for Stagg they look for maximum absorption of wood notes. Eagle Rare is supposed to be elegant and refined whereas Stagg is a powerhouse, as big as bourbon gets.

Wouldn't you agree, Dave?

I'm not Dave (who is -- besides Dave, I mean?), but I agree wholeheartedly, Chuck -- when they get it right. The worst ER17s (only a couple -- '05 comes to mind) are over-oaked, and astringent, reminiscent of the older Weller 19.

But, when they get it right, it's very much like the $300 cognac you can't afford, but salivate over, when visiting the two stores in your area that actually shelve a $300 cognac, because you once tasted some at some rich person's open bar. Elegant, indeed.

[dgonano]

Yes this is Dave and I do agree with Chuck. And now the selected barrels can be found in any warehouse. And BT probably knows a few years in advance which aging barrels are destined to become Stagg or ER.

Earlier it was finding the whiskey, developing the profile, and it wasn't that easy, as it was just old aging bourbon past its prime. Some was very good and others not.

[B.B. Babington]

that's why I like this board. You guys have experience and knowledge. I've only had 4 years of stagg (06-09) and I have to go with chuck in that the bottles I have are/were relatively consistent when sampling side by side. I'd love to get hold of earlier years to see what they're like. I still haven't gotten the latest - dang it! At least I've got 4 bottles left to console myself if I don't get '10.

[B.B. Babington]

Hoorah, I've finally joined the 2010 club. I've ignored ER17 in the past and now see maybe I've missed out. Comparing 2010 ER to 2010 Stagg, for the two bottles I opened, the ER17 was richer, more wood, definitely more wood in the finish. Pardon the sacrilage, but I also tried watered Stagg to approx ER17 proof. Though they certainly weren't one dimensional, neither had super great deal of complexity one finds in some other material. That said, I think the ER17 had more going on. Yes, they are very similar, but BT White Dog has some similarities, too. I'm starting my new years resolution early and spending more time with ER17.

[TNbourbon]

...Pardon the sacrilage, but I also tried watered Stagg to approx ER17 proof...