Oh, just another thread about pappy...

[bourbonNOOG]

The PVW pissing contests have to end! :grin:

I know the stuff is good, but seriously. It seems like this place has become a forum of "who can stockpile the most pappy" (mostly 15). I love the stuff as much as the next guy, but geez.

There is so much other stuff out there that is equally as tasty, maybe not as hard to find, but still. I've just been observing the craze grow exponentially over the past month or so and thought I would post a little rant. Well it's not really a rant because I could care less about the situation and am extremely happy to see all of my SB companions stockpiling and enjoying an item that is so near and dear to their hearts.

Why don't we turn this into a "Hey, I've got all the Pappy (15, 20, 23) I need, so what do I do now?" thread. What do you enjoy equally as much that isn't as hard to come by or is equally hard to come by? What say you, post up some things that you seek and lovingly cherish as much as your beloved pappy products.

[chefnash51]

PVW 15 is my all time favorite and the hardest to come by. Except maybe Weller Centennial, which I was lucky to find 2 of, but doubt I will ever see it again.

It's in short supply and wont' be along much longer (as we know it).

So I am all for me buying as much as I can before I can't obtain anymore of it. I don't only have to fight the small allocations and high demand but also the people looking to turn a profit by re-selling.

I do have a nice bunker but it's not stocked with tons of gems like, ND OGD, cheap SW juice and WT 12. There are bourbons I would love to stock more of, but the thing about Pappy 15 is the price point. It's my all time favorite but it's not costing me close to $100 a bottle.

[bourbonNOOG]

All valid points and like i said I enjoy Pappy 15 as much as you or anyone else on this forum, it just seems the obsession has gotten a bit out of control.

[timd]

Great idea BourbonNoog!

Here's some things that I love as much as a good Pappy product (hope you don't mind some are Weller) that can be easier and cheaper to find - although not universally available, and some still allocated and pricey, but nowhere near as rare as Pappy:

• Weller Antique (7/107)
• Weller 12 yr (wow - at around $22? Amazing)
  
• Rittenhouse BIB Rye - harder & harder to find, and price is up to $20's now
  
• Buffalo Trace single barrel/vattings from Binny's, Party Source, etc - $25 and truly tastes to enjoy!
  
• Four Roses Single Barrel - easily worth twice the price! Again, look for Binny's, Party Source, etc. offerings too just to compare
  
• Vintage Rye 21 - not cheap, and hard to find, but stands up perfectly to Saz 18 for a few bucks less
  
• George Dickel - cheap & easy to find, what more can you ask for? Haven't tried it? What are you waiting for????
  
• Wild Turkey 101 Rye - some would debate between Ritt BIB & this for the best value/buy in Rye. I say own several of each (I usually do!). Awesome juice at a great price
  
• Very Old Barton 100 - Really? Under $15 and it tastes this good?
  
• Pure Kentucky - not easy to come by and around $30-$35, but its super sweet, leathery & rye goodness makes it an easy pour
  
• Parker's Heritage Releases - not nearly the buzz/excitement of BTAC stuff, and prices vary, but I've not had any that weren't good enough to justify the price. Every bit as special as BTAC & Pappy releases.
  
• Old Forrester Birthday Bourbons - hit & miss, only had 3, 2 were amazing, one was "eh"
  
• Woodford Reserve Master's Collection - Not much personal experience here, but they always intrigue me and nice to see some risks being taken

That's far from a complete list... just a few things that I always find incredibly enjoyable whether it's price, quality, the effort to find it or a combination of all of these factors that make them taste so good to me, I can't say, but they always make me a bit happier when I'm sipping on one of them!

I'm curious to see what other folks add to the mix here as well... Personally loved treasures, small batches I've not heard of, or higher-end things I've just never taken a chance on...!

[RaylanGivens]

Nice thread! It's interesting you post this, as I was discussing this last night with a friend of mine. Being a recent transplant from the craft beer world, it's been interesting seeing the similarities and differences between that community of enthusiasts and here.

I was remarking last night how I was kind of surprised how pro-hoarder this board is compared to the craft beer world, where limited allocations and rare releases are discussed ad nauseam as well. However, people posting pictures of massive hoardings of those allocations are generally met with negative feedback. It's more of a "spread the wealth" across the community vibe. It's an interesting contrast.

All just newbie observations, of course. Cheers to those gathering up their entire states allocations.

[chefnash51]

Nice thread! It's interesting you post this, as I was discussing this last night with a friend of mine. Being a recent transplant from the craft beer world, it's been interesting seeing the similarities and differences between that community of enthusiasts and here.

I was remarking last night how I was kind of surprised how pro-hoarder this board is compared to the craft beer world, where limited allocations and rare releases are discussed ad nauseam as well. However, people posting pictures of massive hoardings of those allocations are generally met with negative feedback. It's more of a "spread the wealth" across the community vibe. It's an interesting contrast.

All just newbie observations, of course. Cheers to those gathering up their entire states allocations.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Great idea BourbonNoog!

Here's some things that I love as much as a good Pappy product (hope you don't mind some are Weller) that can be easier and cheaper to find - although not universally available, and some still allocated and pricey, but nowhere near as rare as Pappy:

[*]Vintage Rye 21 - not cheap, and hard to find, but stands up perfectly to Saz 18 for a few bucks less

[RaylanGivens]

Really? Being an active member of beeradvocate for many years, I never saw any ill will towards folks with massive beer cellars. Most were active traders and this is how most hard to gets were obtained.

[theDon]

I'm all for an all Pappy forum where everything Pappy gets posted, so those of us who cannot afford or even find Pappy can choose not to read. Let's make that Pappy/BTAC and make lots of room in the General Bourbon Discussion!

[chefnash51]

I will second, or third the Vintage 21. Man I loved that Rye. Found 2 in my ventures and it's not looking like anymore will turn up.

[chefnash51]

Actually it was BA I was referring to. Not so much the cellaring, but the releases. Not sure if you still are an active member, but releases in the recent years of KBS, Hopslam, or whatever the new best ever limited barrel aged imperial stout is are ridiculous. Those posting up that they snagged the only two cases in their state while others drove 200 miles to find out some guy just bought the only two cases is a constant argument over there. People posting how they cleared the shelves are met with quite the disdain. Beer Karma and all that.

[Brisko]

Great thread.

Space, and to a lesser extent, budget, make it hard for me to keep a bunker, so I don't really bother. With the PVWs it's not really an issue, anyway, given their scarcity around here. (Although I haven't been looking that hard).

That said, I find myself wondering-- is PVW 15 worth two ORVW 10/107s? Is PVW 20 worth two Lot B's? And so on? (Shoot, is ORVW 10/107 worth two OWA 107s?)

Maybe -- I'm a relative noob and I've never tasted the Pappy line. But one of the things I evaluate is how a more expensive product stacks up against a similar, lower quality offering. It's kind of amusing when you start to put them head to head like that.

[RegChumpington]

I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.

[chefnash51]

I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.

[bourbonNOOG]

I must say, that I was a kit skeptical on how this thread would be received, but it looks like a lot of good information will come from this.

Vintage 21 seems to be the first gem to pop out at me. I've had the 17yr but never jumped up from that. I've always heard they're tasty though. The reason I have jumped at the chance to get anything above the 17 is because I've never seen a 21 or 23. I thoroughly enjoy the 17 and will now keep an eye out for the 21.

[chefnash51]

I must say, that I was a kit skeptical on how this thread would be received, but it looks like a lot of good information will come from this.

Vintage 21 seems to be the first gem to pop out at me. I've had the 17yr but never jumped up from that. I've always heard they're tasty though. The reason I have jumped at the chance to get anything above the 17 is because I've never seen a 21 or 23. I thoroughly enjoy the 17 and will now keep an eye out for the 21.

[PappyVW23]

gotta talk about something, might as well be pappy. If not, it would be something else. as far as pappy goes, i doubt there are more than 5 or 10 people on here with more than a half dozen bottles of each bottling. since it only comes out twice a year and soon will change, i don't see how my 10 bottles of 15 are anything but a great investment. i'll drink some, trade some and save some. wouldn't call it an obsession, but it is that time of year. i'm sure in a month when it's all gone it will die down till the fall. still looking for some experimental if anyone wants to trade. :grin:

[HP12]

My thinking (and taste) believe the Abraham Bowman Virginia LTD Edition Rye is a very special bottle(s) to have in the cabinet. I'm looking for PVW13 rye to do a side-by-side tasting. Should be an interesting comparison.

[jfw]

I like Pappy and have a decent amount bunkered. But, there are certainly other bourbons I like as much as Pappy (PH 2010 Wheat comes to mind).

But, I'll give you my story about bunkering stuff you love (or not bunkering). My early years drinking whiskey my chosen spirit was Michter's 101 Sour Mash Whiskey. In the mid 80s, I bought it by the case direct from the source. Then there was no more. There wasn't really a lot of warning back then (lack of the internet and all), so when it went under I didn't even know it until I went to get another case two years later. I had only two bottles left and I'm down to one now. Had I know, I would have picked up a couple of cases to drink over the years.

So, now that we know Pappy will "change", I think its worth having a few bottles for the next couple of years. I don't sell any on ebay and have no profit motive. I was more than willing to share locations with others after the release so they could get some.

Joe

[camduncan]

You don't know how right you are. The Vintage 21 'should be' just as collectible and sought after as the Pappy15 if not more so. It is from extinct stocks of Rye that'll never be duplicated. At around $75 a bottle it is a bargain, and measurably better than Saz18, IMHO.

Now that's the type of info I could have used 3 years ago when I visited Kentucky and had not idea what bottles to look for :skep:

[camduncan]

I love my Van Winkle as much as any here on the board, and have open bottles of 10/90, Lot B, 13yo Rye, and Pappy 15. I also have 1 backup bottle of each, as well as an unopenned Pappy 23yo (SB.com bottle)

Sadly, with the price of Van Winkle products in Australia, I'll likely never buy a bottle here again as there's too much else worth buying at much more affordable prices. But, if I do make it back to the mainland USA in a couple of years, I will look out for a bottle or two. :grin:

Current Aussie prices:

10/107: $120

Lot B: $125

Pappy 15: $150

Pappy 20: $250

13yo Rye: $150

[Virus_Of_Life]

Now that's the type of info I could have used 3 years ago when I visited Kentucky and had not idea what bottles to look for :skep:

Sorry Cam! I hadn't tried it then myself... Since then my good friend has cleared out Binny's inventory so don't even try them.

[RyanL]

I like Pappy and have a decent amount bunkered. But, there are certainly other bourbons I like as much as Pappy (PH 2010 Wheat comes to mind).

I agree. PHC10 is a great wheated bourbon and I'm in the process of adding several bottles to my bunker. Unfortunately the price on it is fairly high for a 10 year old bourbon. I just hope now that Heaven Hill has proven they can make a great wheated bourbon they continue on producing a mid level priced, aged, wheated bourbon.

[chefnash51]

I agree. PHC10 is a great wheated bourbon and I'm in the process of adding several bottles to my bunker. Unfortunately the price on it is fairly high for a 10 year old bourbon. I just hope now that Heaven Hill has proven they can make a great wheated bourbon they continue on producing a mid level priced, aged, wheated bourbon.

^^^

this. Hoping to see a more moderately priced Wheated bourbon from HH, now we now they can do it well!

[RyanL]

Also with regards to the Vintage 21. Is that the same stock as what Binny's has on their website now that you are referring to or did KBD get a different stock and start bottling more?