Oh, just another thread about pappy...

[Virus_Of_Life]

Also with regards to the Vintage 21. Is that the same stock as what Binny's has on their website now that you are referring to or did KBD get a different stock and start bottling more?

They don't have 21 on the site anymore, just 23 which is also good but the wood is showing a little too much on the 23.

[chefnash51]

While I do enjoy the 23 yr, the 21 is where it's at. Agreed, a bit too much wood on the 23.

[dmarkle]

I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.

[timd]

Well, I'm guessing there will be a run on the Vintage 21 yr Rye now...

What are some other hidden gems like this out there to look for?

[StraightNoChaser]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

[the Duff]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

This.

padpadpadpad

[HP12]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

This.padpadpadpad

So who is at "fault", the buyer or the seller? Long live capitalism!

[peb]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

My mentality was very similar to this last fall when BTAC and Pappy came out. I live in central Kentucky and you would think this stuff would be everywhere, or at least somewhat easy to find - but it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of four factors in finding these very limited allocations:

1. You know someone in the business who can either reserve bottles for you or notify you when they are in or just before they come in so you are at the store with cash in had when it opens.

2. You have a large sum of discretionary money for bourbon.

3. You do your homework and hunt a bottle up here or there.

4. You just get plain lucky.

Now, truth be known, if you are falling to 3 and 4, you'll probably need a combination of the two and you might need to throw in some creativity as well. I made it to a local store and was lucky enough to grab one bottle of PVW 15. I would have loved to walked out with more, but they had a one bottle Van Winkle limit - period (I had a very tough time choosing between the 15 and 20). This fall if I catch the release I will be at this store with at least one non-bourbon drinking friend so that I can walk out with more than one bottle. Or I'll stop at a horse farm and grab a van of temp laborers...

I know from first hand experience that is sucks when a store sells out of their alotment in minutes. It stinks when one person is able to buy a store out. Or when you don't know the right people to ask. But that's just the reality of it. But I know if I do my homework and put in some effort I'll probably come away with something.

And the best advice (mind you this is very geographically biased) I can give all of the Pappy seekers, is don't get hellbent on only getting Pappy. In my recent travels I was able to get two bottles of Four Roses Mariage 2009 for $65 each. Pappy is great, and I do enjoy it; but it's not the only great bourbon. If you look hard enough you'll find something great, it just might not be what you set out for.

- end rant - sorry I promise I'm not a long-winded person...

[hectic1]

My mentality was very similar to this last fall when BTAC and Pappy came out. I live in central Kentucky and you would think this stuff would be everywhere, or at least somewhat easy to find - but it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of four factors in finding these very limited allocations:

1. You know someone in the business who can either reserve bottles for you or notify you when they are in or just before they come in so you are at the store with cash in had when it opens.

2. You have a large sum of discretionary money for bourbon.

3. You do your homework and hunt a bottle up here or there.

4. You just get plain lucky.

Now, truth be known, if you are falling to 3 and 4, you'll probably need a combination of the two and you might need to throw in some creativity as well. I made it to a local store and was lucky enough to grab one bottle of PVW 15. I would have loved to walked out with more, but they had a one bottle Van Winkle limit - period (I had a very tough time choosing between the 15 and 20). This fall if I catch the release I will be at this store with at least one non-bourbon drinking friend so that I can walk out with more than one bottle. Or I'll stop at a horse farm and grab a van of temp laborers...

I know from first hand experience that is sucks when a store sells out of their alotment in minutes. It stinks when one person is able to buy a store out. Or when you don't know the right people to ask. But that's just the reality of it. But I know if I do my homework and put in some effort I'll probably come away with something.

And the best advice (mind you this is very geographically biased) I can give all of the Pappy seekers, is don't get hellbent on only getting Pappy. In my recent travels I was able to get two bottles of Four Roses Mariage 2009 for $65 each. Pappy is great, and I do enjoy it; but it's not the only great bourbon. If you look hard enough you'll find something great, it just might not be what you set out for.

- end rant - sorry I promise I'm not a long-winded person...

:thankyousign: for this post and for capitalism as we know it!

[RyanL]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

FWIW, I'm someone that had never even heard of Pappy Van Winkle 6 months ago. I had never tasted it until about 3 months ago. And in that time I have been able to track down 22 bottles of 15 and 20 year. This has happened through time spent tracking it down and being willing to drive to liquor stores that are a couple hours from your house or even more possibly. If you aren't willing to then you just won't be able to get much if any of it. It sucks that there isn't more out there but that's the way it is so you have to do what you have to do if you really want it. And I have absolutely no plans of selling any of what I have or get in the future. I'm simply trying to accumulate as much of my favorite bourbon as I can before it is all gone so I have enough to still be drinking it long after it's long gone off store shelves. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

Like others have said there are still lots of other great bourbons out there. PHC10 is an amazing wheated bourbon that is out there and can still be found online on several sites. It's not cheap is it's only drawback(compared to Pappy 15) but there are other great bourbons like this to be had if you can't find Pappy.

[squire]

I'm surprised to see such terms as 'lesser quality' cropping up now and then when comparing Bourbon expressions. Whisky coming off the still and into the barrel is the same quality whether it is bottled at five years or fifteen. Older expressions are different and posses characteristics which we as a group prefer, and for which we are willing to pay more, but it's not a question of greater quality.

[timd]

Good rants. Feel the same about scarcity, but willing to work for it - as are some of you guys.

NOW - what are some other lesser known great finds out there? Let's here your list of secret treasures, great values, and unique buys!

[MarkEdwards]

Good rants. Feel the same about scarcity, but willing to work for it - as are some of you guys.

NOW - what are some other lesser known great finds out there? Let's here your list of secret treasures, great values, and unique buys!

For me, it was four bottles of Glenrothes 30-year old sc*tch, distilled in 1975, that I've bought over the last couple of years. One is nearly gone.

There is still one more bottle out there that I'd love to bring home with me.

[RyanL]

Well, I'm guessing there will be a run on the Vintage 21 yr Rye now...

What are some other hidden gems like this out there to look for?

[politely]

I understand the lack of availability and the frustration it engenders. But, like with most things, I find that people don't really appreciate what is readily available, even if it's good. It's only when something that's good is also difficult to obtain that people really seem to savor it - and sometimes the rarity adds some psychological flavor..... I think there are alternatives that are just as good, but they don't get the attention that Pappy does. Also, as far as scarcity and hunting - again, like with most things, it seems fair to me that the people who are willing to spend the most time, effort & energy get the most. On the other hand, it does bother me a bit that people wipe out availability just to resell. I can't condemn it entirely, because on some level it's not entirely different from hoarding for the bunker, but I think I'd rather that the producer increase the price so that it's more available, rather than have it all swept up by someone who's hoarding to sell at that higher price at a later time with less availability. It's a difficult issue.

[CaptainQ]

but I think I'd rather that the producer increase the price so that it's more available, rather than have it all swept up by someone who's hoarding to sell at that higher price at a later time with less availability. It's a difficult issue.

It is a difficult issue for sure. It all boils down to good old supply and demand. I'm sure Jullian would love to sell a few hundred more cases of each expression if he had it, but the juice for the Pappy is almost all gone. His joint venture with BT started in 2002 so I expect that in a few years we should see more availability of the 10 and 12 year expressions. He could raise prices, but he is the whiskey business to sell. Prices have crept up over the years, but he does have some of the highest rated bourbons on the planet so I would expect that. Would I buy at higher prices? I guess it all depends. Not sure where my pain threshold is on the current line. I do know I have paid a few hundred dollars for the old ORVW 15/107. I have turned down $500-$800 for the old VWFR 14,16 and 20.

[jfw]

As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

[Ian S.]

Yes, we are good at acquiring hard-to-find items. But it does take work and/or personal relationships built up over time to make it happen. People on the forums here are also more than willing to help other members out in acquiring tough to find items and good deals. It is much easier if you fill in the location under your user account when asking for help.

I've spent time in the last month acquiring some hard-to-find items for one member and helped another to get a decent quantity of PVW 15. It's as much or more fun to help someone else out as it is to add it to the bunker. I have more down there than I will ever drink anyway. I don't post lists of places to find things on the forums for numerous reasons, but if you are in the MD area and need help finding something (pretty much anything), I can probably help you find at least one or two (which also means that I have left it out there for others) but only in PMs.

Joe

[RyanL]

You don't know how right you are. The Vintage 21 'should be' just as collectible and sought after as the Pappy15 if not more so. It is from extinct stocks of Rye that'll never be duplicated. At around $75 a bottle it is a bargain, and measurably better than Saz18, IMHO.

Any speculation as to where the stock of rye they used came from? Now that I've had it and been amazed by it I am curious as to where it may have come from.

[jfw]

There is a thread on VWFRR in the American Rye Whiskey forum. Should have all the info you want to know about VWFRR.

Joe

[RyanL]

I was referring to the Vintage 21yr rye put out by KBD.