Overaged Bourbon

[Bourbon Boiler]

As I'm starting to play around with aging my own whiskeys, I'm reading a lot of warnings about over-aging bourbon due to the high surface area / volume ratio of small barrels. While this makes perfect sense, it occured to me that I'm not sure I've ever sampled a whiskey that I thought was in the barrel for too long. In fact, the BTEC double barrel trials may be the best whiskey I've ever tasted, and I've heard others refer to those as "drinking oak".

Granted, no one intentionally over-ages anything, as it would add expense, and reduce output in addition to being an inferior quality. However, I'm haven't convinced myself that a bourbon can taste over-aged.

I don't want to lose a super-majority of the liquid to the angels, but I think I'm going to want to keep aging the juice as long as I can. I will do periodic tasting and will keep some small samples, so I will eventually run out regardless.

The reason for my post is that I would like a list of bourbons that others might consider "overaged". I'd like to try those as I start to play to see if I come to the same conclusions.

[jburlowski]

If its MM, they (MM) would say anything more than around five years.

[sailor22]

Some I have seen described as overaged more than a few times;

Pappy 23

Vintage 23 Rye

Pichard's Double Barrel

Elija Craig 18

Black Maple Hill 21

Evan Willams 23

Hirsch 21 Rye

Michters Single Barrel 10yr

Some Willett single barrel picks that are 16 and older.

Noah's Mill

I'm sure there qre some I forgotten.

Not everyone agrees of course. In fact a few of those are on my favorites list.

[ethangsmith]

As I'm starting to play around with aging my own whiskeys, I'm reading a lot of warnings about over-aging bourbon due to the high surface area / volume ratio of small barrels. While this makes perfect sense, it occured to me that I'm not sure I've ever sampled a whiskey that I thought was in the barrel for too long. In fact, the BTEC double barrel trials may be the best whiskey I've ever tasted, and I've heard others refer to those as "drinking oak".

Granted, no one intentionally over-ages anything, as it would add expense, and reduce output in addition to being an inferior quality. However, I'm haven't convinced myself that a bourbon can taste over-aged.

I don't want to lose a super-majority of the liquid to the angels, but I think I'm going to want to keep aging the juice as long as I can. I will do periodic tasting and will keep some small samples, so I will eventually run out regardless.

The reason for my post is that I would like a list of bourbons that others might consider "overaged". I'd like to try those as I start to play to see if I come to the same conclusions.

Where are you buying your barrels to age your whiskey? I'm going to start doing this and I need a good supplier of non-varnished barrels.

[Bourbon Boiler]

Where are you buying your barrels to age your whiskey? I'm going to start doing this and I need a good supplier of non-varnished barrels.

I have a few inquiries out there. I'm actually buying a couple for a friend as well, and trying to negotiate better deals than listed prices, or at a minimum better than standard shipping costs. I'll keep you posted.

[Bourbon Boiler]

Where are you buying your barrels to age your whiskey? I'm going to start doing this and I need a good supplier of non-varnished barrels.

I'm also open to recomendations from other SBers as well.

[p_elliott]

This is where my wife got the one she gave me for my birthday last year. I don't know if the prices are competitive or not.

http://www.oakbarrelsltd.com/

[bourbonv]

I am not a big fan of small barrel aging. You get a lot of tannins from the wood, but not a lot of the nice caramel and vanilla flavors you get from a full sized barrel. I believe, but I am not sure because I have never seen a used stave from a small barrel, that the red layer is also much smaller in the small staves and as a result there is not as much caramel and vanilla flavor in the wood. Has anybody taken a small barrel apart to look at the red Layer?

Mike Veach

[sutton]

This is where my wife got the one she gave me for my birthday last year. I don't know if the prices are competitive or not.

http://www.oakbarrelsltd.com/

I make wine at home and am familiar with the various toast levels used for wine barrels (medium, medium+, heavy). Are these equivalent to whiskey barrel char levels (say, #2, 3, and 4), or are "char" levels heavier than what one sees for wine aging?

[White Dog]

I make wine at home and am familiar with the various toast levels used for wine barrels (medium, medium+, heavy). Are these equivalent to whiskey barrel char levels (say, #2, 3, and 4), or are "char" levels heavier than what one sees for wine aging?

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that the toasting levels in wine barrels, even "heavy toast," is much lighter than actual charring.

[nblair]

I just got one from http://www.bluegrassbarrels.com to rebarrel some Fleichmann's Rye. Haven't put it to use yet, but can't wait!!

[Rughi]

I am not a big fan of small barrel aging. You get a lot of tannins from the wood, but not a lot of the nice caramel and vanilla flavors you get from a full sized barrel.

Yes indeed, in the first fill or two, that is very true. The first use is very quick and tanniny but these leach quickly and allow for longer, more rounded aging. In my experience, the third fill is the sweet spot for 1 to 3 gallon barrels that can go for years to develop aging characteristics familiar to conventional bourbon aging.

It is a foreign concept to many bourbon enthusiasts, but I've found the first fill or two is best viewed as preparing the barrel, and I would recommend using cheap spirits for that (cheap bourbon, preferably).

Using a small barrel for only its first fill (as per bourbon laws) is like eating the banana peel and throwing away the middle.

[p_elliott]

My first try at re-barreling did not turn out so great I need to give it another go.

[Rughi]

My first try at re-barreling did not turn out so great I need to give it another go.

The nice thing about using barrels for spirits instead of beer/wine is that the barrel will never 'go bad' from microbial infection as long as you keep spiritis in it.

The barrel will just keep getting better - mellowing ever closer to what we expect of a big ol' bourbon barrel.

[bgageus]

My wife and I received a 5L barrell made by 1000 Oaks over a year ago to age some spirits. Our first batch was aged about 7 months, the second is on 6 months now and aging much slower. The problem I see is product loss, my first two attemps were filled with undiluted white dog (126 proof). After 7 months my 6 bottles was 2. (no leaks, just angels) I am expecting alot less loss this time hoping that the wood soaked up alot of the first batch.

If I lose alot in this batch, I will give it the bird and refill with 80 proof Old Crow at $11 a handle.

[Bourbon Boiler]

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that the toasting levels in wine barrels, even "heavy toast," is much lighter than actual charring.

[BBQ+Bourbon]

When I think of an over oaked bourbon, Jefferson Reserve Presidential Select 17 comes to mind. I thought it was awful and was glad to unload my unopened bottles. What a waste of the last juice SW produced....

[timd]

I use http://www.oakbarrelsltd.com/

They have good products and good pricing (and free shipping at a certain level).

I use Tequila or lower-grade whiskey for my first fill. It will be oaky & smokey and if it's hot outside, it's going to go fast - and be very wood influenced.

Of note: the vast majority of hobby barrels are "toasted" - not charred. Oak Barrels LTD does offer Charred barrels, but if they are out of stock, it can take a special order. I don't know of any other places that will offer actual charred barrels, which rapidly increases the aging effect (for the better) vs. toasted.

[Enoch]

Where are you buying your barrels to age your whiskey? I'm going to start doing this and I need a good supplier of non-varnished barrels.

I just bought a 5L from a guy here in Columbia. WHite Oak, medium char $40. I'll let you know how it works out.

[jcg9779]

I just bought a 5L from a guy here in Columbia. WHite Oak, medium char $40. I'll let you know how it works out.

What do you plan on aging, Enoch?

[Enoch]

What do you plan on aging, Enoch?

That's a good question. I'm going to Green's today and get something cheap for my first experiment. There is clearly no consensus on SB on whether it works or is worth the time. I'm thinking about young EW or AA but will have to look around. The have a bunch of handles of Cabin Still on clearance for about $10 each so I may try that.

I figure if it doesn't work I'll just use it as a decoration.

I found an old store that has some UD Old Crow for about $10 a liter so I may try that.

Last Edit: I decided on Evan Williams BIB. It's less than $10 a liter with a fairly standard flavor profile. I plan on withdrawing some each month and saving to compare.

[timd]

If you are going to store it outside - check every few days. During hot months, and with a first-fill (if it's a "medium char" - and not "medium toast") it's going to age f-a-s-t. You are starting with something that's already a few years old - which I've not done, so not sure how it will impact. It may actually be more subtle since you've got a flavor profile from wood already.

With the 100+ degree days here, two weeks took a silver tequila to nearly black... It was a first fill/XXX char 2 liter barrel.

My last experiment (in Michigan, winter...) aged much, much more slowly - but had a heavier tannin/wood profile - far less vanilla/caramel, but I think that's because that barrel was toasted, not charred.

I put white dog (actually it's MBR's "Blackdog" new make) in the same tequila barrel, and I've already got color & a woody-nose 3 days into it...).

Granted - we've broken 100+ every day in Dallas for the past few weeks - AND I add another little trick: bring it in about every 2-3 days, put it in the fridge to get the wood to contract, and then stick it back outside in the morning.

I also suggest that you FREEZE it when you are ready to empty it - this squeezes out all the woody goodness and primes the barrel for the next use (you still have to soak with water, however).

And - if you don't like "stuff" in your final product use cheesecloth or a strainer (any kind of physical barrier) as you empty it - because no matter how much you washed it, there will be big & little flakes of char coming out with it - enough to coat the bottom of the bottle.

Good luck - and keep us in informed on how extra aging an already aged whiskey goes. I think it could wind up being very dark, creamy, smooth and rich tasting in a very short amount of time (3-4 weeks)

[macdeffe]

Overaged bourbon

This is a subjext that I find more relevant for bourbons than single malts.

This has a lot to do with taste and your personal taste and is there fore a very subjective matter

End of the day it probably comes down to how much you like the woody flavours that bopurbons tends to pick up easy (due to new wood etc etc etc)

This weeknd I had a group of friends over and a few of us shared a couple (Or three, maybe seven) of bourbon and ryes

We had the PvW 15yo. I being the most experienced single malt drinker found it very woody. VERY woody. A friend found at absolute wonderful and the best whisk(e)y of the night

If we started arguaing about if it was overaged I am sure we would never agree

(We didn't, I just congratulted him with finding a whisky he really enjoyed!!)¨

Steffen

[Bourbon Boiler]

Overaged bourbon

This is a subjext that I find more relevant for bourbons than single malts.

This has a lot to do with taste and your personal taste and is there fore a very subjective matter

End of the day it probably comes down to how much you like the woody flavours that bopurbons tends to pick up easy (due to new wood etc etc etc)

This weeknd I had a group of friends over and a few of us shared a couple (Or three, maybe seven) of bourbon and ryes

We had the PvW 15yo. I being the most experienced single malt drinker found it very woody. VERY woody. A friend found at absolute wonderful and the best whisk(e)y of the night

If we started arguaing about if it was overaged I am sure we would never agree

(We didn't, I just congratulted him with finding a whisky he really enjoyed!!)¨

Steffen

Thanks for the comments. I've yet to find a bourbon I considered overaged, so I'm feeling a little safer. The more wood I taste, the more I like it. (Please refrain from immature jokes, I just read that last sentence back.)

[sutton]

Does the char in the barrel also act as a "filtering" agent, i.e., something like what happens with the Tennessee charcoal filtering process? So not only does the char open up the wood to allow for the barrel flavors to leach into the whiskey over time, but the char may remove or bind up, perhaps more slowly, some of the harsher congeners?

Is this why longer aged whiskey might have less edge/harsh notes, but there is a balance to how long it can remain before the woody notes could dominate the taste profile...?