VW Fall 2011 Allocation Actual Tasting Discussion

[LikeItWasSodaPop]

OK, so we've got a thread talking about the when/where/why of the actual shipments. I want to hear from people who have actually tasted the stuff.

It seems the current allocation arrived in Chicago quite recently, and thanks to a good friend, I was able to nab a bottle of the VWFRR and 10/107 this evening.

Now it seems there are several important discussions:

(1) The OBVIOUS: compare "BT" PVW15 to "SW" PVW 15. Poor "BT" PVW15, he never had a chance, I know. But this shit has been out for a while and all we have is one lousy freaking tasting note on the new stuff? I expect the consensus to be "it ain't as good." But given that there are so many here that think the "SW" of years recent had at least some BT in there, we should be able to make some interesting comparisons. For those who have been saying, ad nauseam, "that ain't 100% SW," now that we know it ain't SW AT ALL, how does this relate to / affect / cause you to revise your pronouncements? Or does it just show you was right all along?

(2) VWFRR. I found some deadstock a few weeks ago -- owner confirmed it was from 2010 but probably earlier. The bottle I got today had a LOWER number. And no, I'm not going to look for a bottle code. I get that the handwritten numbers on the VW bottles are probably just there to fuck with our brains but (A) are the VWs just doing shit in reverse chronological order ? ( why are we so whiskey-whipped that we sit here speculating about their impervious number schemes (with flashlights!) as if they MEAN anything. And yeah, I think whiskey-whipped is a good adjective, as is it's sexist analog ("pussy-whipped," for those of you living under large rocks) because it does describe an actual phenomenon. The whole point is: does your obsession cause you to act stupid? And when it comes to these codes and the other thing I mentioned, the answer is, relative to a lot of us (including me a lot of the time!): yes.

ANYWAY, NEWS FLASH: This 2011 VWFRR is awesome. I have RAZOR BLADES strapped to my arms, so stay away from me, I will steal it all from all of you. Or if not, I know where your "bunkers" are, and none of you have those laser light security systems (except for probably Hectic1, he probably has deadly booby traps). So watch out.

(3) PVW 20. No need to discuss. It's great. Buy it if you can afford it. Expensive but worth it. Nice golf scene on the back. Quaint, but that dog caddy BS basically proves that Pappy was brilliant in many other ways, i.e., dude was a comedian, and shows that the "gravitas" of that cigar smoking label pose shizzle was imbued with well-played irony. Is the "dog" a "caddy" because he thinks caddies are dogs? In other words, is it just a really classist/racist joke about oppression? The little people are dogs, or caddies are dogs? Or is it about how Pappy is so freaking cheap he can't afford or refuses to pay for a real caddy? Or is it just that it's really, really goddamn funny and also amazing that dude is so cool that his dog will be his caddy?!? That the dog is his friend, and LOVES him so much that he'll carry the clubs out of loyalty and friendship ...

Clearly you know the latter is where I'm at.

There needs to be more humor in bourbon. And less manipulative bullshit nostalgia.

(4) PVW 23. Buy it if you're rich. Probably really good but utterly unnecessary. Are you rich enough to pay a hot chick to lick your butt or do what your wife won't? OK, take some $$$ out of your whore budget for PWV 23.

Now, keep in mind there's nothing wrong with elites, per se. After all, the most prolific posters on this site are "the 1%" when it comes to bourbon knowledge. Being the 1% of KNOWLEDGE is awesome ... and we all know that spending $200+ for overaged PVW is stupid relative to the other options. So, yep. Knowledge is power and whatnot. Any Pappy 23 purchasers care to defend your dumb purchase?

Oh, I've never drunk it. Or drank it. But I would steal it. Just FYI, old dudes without security systems on their bunkers.

(5) Lot B. I call it "Plan B." Basically, it's Van Winkle #1 (doesn't matter which one it is), "Look, Dad (or Son) people will buy shit with our name on it, and pay a premium, even if it's not that that good!" These dudes need to pay their kids' college tuition, etc. SW is closed, folks -- closed! Can you believe it? These guys, nice as they are, can't ring blood or wine from a distillery that's been -- seriously-- closed for nearly 20 years. Closed, folks. How the last allocation of 15 was SW still boggles my mind. It makes me want to get all John Cleese on y'all.

If you don't know the Monty Python "dead parrot" sketch, please watch first:

Y'all are the pet shop owner. I am John Cleese with the dead parrot. You are trying to tell me that the dead bird, i.e. SW, is "just resting." I'm saying, "IT IS NO MORE. IT IS AN EX-DISTILLERY." You're saying, "Well, just maybe SW can keep putting out bourbon after it closed," and I'm pointing at the dead parrot / distillery at the bottom of the cage, stinking up the room.

So now the EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. I'm saying, "But he has nothing on" and Hansell is saying "the 15 is the best of the bunch" and we have just one other tasting note on the 15 and it ain't pretty.

Meanwhile, the VW frenzy is at full tilt, and those outside our little bubble are pouncing on the Lot B like it's even remotely related to the legendary SW juice in any substantial way whatsoever ...

What's sad to me is shouldn't there be an explosion of talk about this new allocation ... ?!?! Now that we actually have confirmation from these notorious obfuscators have confirmed that the final threads of the Emperor's clothes have now disappeared? Is this the end? I thought Julian said: Pappy on the label = SW. "We'll change the bottle when it's not SW." Did I hallucinate that? I mean: seriously. I really do want to know. Does this bloke think he can just lie about this family crap just as the shopkeeper lies about the dead parrot? I realize I'm flipping my metaphor on you (first the SW groupies were the shopkeeper, now it's Julian), but I think it's just as apt either way. Julian did tell someone, somewhere, that he wouldn't put Pappy on the label if it wasn't SW (or someone deviously misquoted him) ... and then, oops! -- he did. So why is no one calling him on it? Are the posts on this site suggesting he said as much fabricated or inaccurate? Or did Julian change his tune?

Anyway, Lot B is crap, and has been for a long time. HE HAS NOTHING ON.

(6) ORVW 10/107. Wow. This tastes NOTHING at all like prior incarnations. I've heard that this one is sort of like the women I used to date (and love!): utterly inconsistent, occasionally seductive and mind-blowing but often just incoherent. I sort of like the new stuff, but I sort of miss the old stuff. I'd act like caring about where it came from or why it tastes different were something I could actually learn, but, well, I'm no longer that naive.

* * *

So anyway, please, please open some bottles and talk about them. We talk so bloody much about where they're going yet the utter dearth of tasting notes suggest you all are pathetic hoarders. Drink it, and please talk about it.

Whew.

[cbus]

Tell us how you really feel.

[luther.r]

I like how you post, SodaPop.

[timd]

I have laser security on my PVWFRR...

I agree with your post.

SW juice = Pappy, BT juice = Weller. I don't dislike the new stuff, but the price/scarcity doesn't appeal to me.

I'd be every bit as happy with a bottle of Weller 12 as I am with a Lot B. OWA107 is almost as a good as ORVW107 - certainly both are essentially half as good (and half the price).

The Pappy 15 still holds a sweet spot for me, but it aint what it used to be. I don't pretend to know if if it's BT, SW, or Colonel Sanders in the bottle. I just know I really like it, but I don't like it as much as I used to. This year's bottles are brilliant, but not like 3-5 years ago. Kind of like comparing *anything* to Weller Centennial - it may be good, but you know there's something just >thatmuch< better.

My issue isn't with the BT juice per se - I don't mind it, but with the pricing/scarcity OF the BT juice. The Weller stuff was/is amazing... but the BT stuff is just good. Still a darn fine wheated whiskey, but it's not legendary and/or worth camping out overnight at my liquor store for.

That said, in terms of the VWFRR, all bets are off - I've got a healthy, first-born male child to swap if anybody is interested!*

*just kidding... or am I?????

[tommyboy38]

(2) VWFRR. I found some deadstock a few weeks ago -- owner confirmed it was from 2010 but probably earlier. The bottle I got today had a LOWER number.

The number means nothing. The letter that precedes it does.

[Jonny.Applebury]

I like how you post, SodaPop.

I second this. I laughed many times while reading the original post.

[StraightNoChaser]

Hahaha man this rang so true inside me. You say all the things I've been thinking.

[CaptainQ]

:slappin: Great post! :toast:

[RegChumpington]

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

There needs to be more humor in bourbon. And less manipulative bullshit nostalgia.

QFT.

[elmo]

OK fine, here are my fall 2011 release tasting notes so far:

Lot B: I like it!

Pappy 15: I like it alot!

I want more of both.

[Beer&Bourbon]

Saw the post this morning and enjoyed reading it immensely. I also find it ironic that in a thread titled VW Fall 2011 Allocation ACTUAL TASTING DISCUSSION there is no, as of yet, tasting discussion (apart from I like it and I like it a lot).

Keeping me entertained anyway...

My buddies and I only got the 2009 bottling of PvW 15 year (5 total bottles from this release; only 1 for me) or else I'd try to help out here.

[RWBadley]

Great post! Entertaining and true on the rambling point of wthell is going on with this stuff here....

My local got in a case of the VWFRR and I ended up taking the bulk of it home with me after tasting it. It is quite superb. I left two bottles- one for the guy that works there and one for the shelf. If it is still there tomorrow, all bets are off.

As for the new BT 15 yo pappy. I do have a bottle, I have not cracked it open yet, but I will this evening. One thing I might say is- of the BT juice in general, I have liked much of it- but find a certain bit of thin dryness across the board that makes me yearn for the old Mattingly & Moore, Cabin Still and the like. (probably showing my age with that one). I just don't find quite as much of the richness in the BT as I remember and sometimes still find in some of the older stuff.

Anybody try this new 15, or 20 yet? Or compare it to anything?

Cheers,

RW

[ebo]

That was one of, if not the best post I've ever read on here! :slappin:

It almost makes me happy I have damn near zero chance of buying or ever tasting any VW product. :cool:

[Young Blacksmith]

Seeing as how Van Winkle does not make it out to the piney woods as far as I know, so I'll stick with OWA and Weller 12 which I can pick up in about 1/4 of the stores out here.....

And enjoy my small allotment of dusty Old Fitz as I see fit.

[AaronWF]

Ok Sody, I'll give it a shot.

(1) I just procured and opened a 2011 bottled PVW15 tonight. I do not have a prior bottling open to compare it to, so I'm going from memory, though it's been awhile since I've had the pleasure of PVW15. Like since the Spring. The top of the bottle comes across as less refined, a little denser in bitterness, and a drier finish than I recall from Pappy15. It's still really good and wholly unique on the market, but there's less to separate it from Weller than I recall.

Honestly, for all I know I'm comparing it to an idealized memory of Pappy 15. It has lost some lovin feeling, but I don't feel entirely objective.

(2) VWFRR - I opened one last night and it blew me away. I had only owned one bottle of this before, procured in the Fall 2010 allocation, and that bottle was a huge let down. I innocently and ignorantly saw it on the shelf last year, took it home and found a whiskey that shut it's own gummy, woody door before it began. Only after being open for 6 months did a flower-taffy-like character begin to emerge. The last few drops were delicious, but I was convinced the VWFFR was a hoax.

This current bottle, however, skipped the blunt, gummy, folded-upon-itself let down of the first 4/5 of my previous bottle and jumped right to the last fifth of singular rye I enjoyed too late before. It's absolutely delicious, and I finally understand why it's so revered in these parts.

I will now forever imagine you slicing through crowds with circular saw appendages and razor blade eye lashes. Well done!

(3) It is a well-established fact that Pappy's dog drank VVVEEOF 28 YO BiB exclusively, and would drag Pappy out to the links on particularly surly days, brimming with caddy-like enthusiasm while Pappy nervously swung his clubs waiting for Buck to pass out.

(4) PVW23. I will not buy this commercially, so I can't comment. I only buy the private eBay bottles for $600 a pop.

(5) Plan 'B'? There is no plan B! Seriously though, I found no reason to go back to this after being sorely disappointed by the two bottles I drank from the Spring allocation.

(6) I found the 10/107 I had from Spring allocation to be fuller and richer than Lot 'B' and much more tasty and mellow than OWA. I haven't yet tasted the current crop, but for $35 in these parts, I have every reason to grab whatever few I can find.

I was told by a knowledgeable Binny's operative that there will be no Spring 2012 allocation. True? Who knows. Four Roses makes a lot of bourbons...

[dustyj]

Just an awesome post. Enjoyed every minute. It just made me see that yet another great bourbon has fallen by the wayside. It can finally be laid to rest next to Mr. Centennial, Eagle Rare 101 and WTRR 101. I seriously fear for my Weller 12.

[WsmataU]

Funny read, but I have a few comments (and these are largely unsubstantiated because I haven't cracked the one bottle I actually got my hands on for the Fall allocation):

1) Is it really fair to crack open a bottle of any wheater and compare it to a bottle on your shelf that has been open (presumably) for several months? Most here would agree that even two bottles from the same barrel taste differently given more/less exposure to air.

2) I agree that the Pappy 20 is the flagship (and always has been) of this lineup. I've tried the PVW 23 and don't care for it as much as the 20, so why pay the extra $$$.

3) I completely disagree that Lot B is crap. @ $45 bottle it is one of my favorites and proves to me that BT can put out excellent bourbon worthy of the Van Winkle heritage. When PVW15 was SW juice and there was < a $10 difference between the two, I would normally go with the 15 (given the choice), but Lot B seems to be much more readily accessible in my area.

Lastly, and maybe I'm just not reading enough into the social commentary of a bourbon label, I was thinking the Dog/Caddy was merely a play on words in that the dog would be called "Cat-ty" during the round of golf. I guess this just shows that my post is completely irrelevant and my sense of humor much more basic :slappin:.

[Brisko]

Ok Sody, I'll give it a shot.

(2) VWFRR - I opened one last night and it blew me away. I had only owned one bottle of this before, procured in the Fall 2010 allocation, and that bottle was a huge let down. I innocently and ignorantly saw it on the shelf last year, took it home and found a whiskey that shut it's own gummy, woody door before it began. Only after being open for 6 months did a flower-taffy-like character begin to emerge. The last few drops were delicious, but I was convinced the VWFFR was a hoax.

This current bottle, however, skipped the blunt, gummy, folded-upon-itself let down of the first 4/5 of my previous bottle and jumped right to the last fifth of singular rye I enjoyed too late before. It's absolutely delicious, and I finally understand why it's so revered in these parts.

How is that these tanked ryes can vary so much from bottling to bottling (c.f. John Hansell's reviews of Saz 18 over the years)? Is it because there is more air contact as the tank is drained? Or do they take steps to keep that from happening? It seems counterintuitive that they would improve drastically from one bottling to the next after being tanked.

Anyway, I had a small taste of the VWFRR that I picked up the other day and it is really, really good. I've never had earlier versions so I don't have anything to compare it to. In fact the only extra-aged rye I've had is last year's Saz 18 which is also really good but it doesn't stand up to the Van Winkle in my opinion.

[Tucker]

How is that these tanked ryes can vary so much from bottling to bottling (c.f. John Hansell's reviews of Saz 18 over the years)? Is it because there is more air contact as the tank is drained? Or do they take steps to keep that from happening? It seems counterintuitive that they would improve drastically from one bottling to the next after being tanked.

John addresses that issue here...

http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2009/10/08/review-sazerac-rye-18-year-old-2009-release/

BTW, he called the 2010 Saz 18 "an improvement from last year’s release" and the 2011 "very similar to last year's release".

[Brisko]

John addresses that issue here...

http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2009/10/08/review-sazerac-rye-18-year-old-2009-release/

BTW, he called the 2010 Saz 18 "an improvement from last year’s release" and the 2011 "very similar to last year's release".

Thanks, I hadn't taken the time to go back and re-read that. His surmise is "probably oxidation." I imagine that something similar could be happening with the VW.

[White Dog]

John addresses that issue here...

http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2009/10/08/review-sazerac-rye-18-year-old-2009-release/

BTW, he called the 2010 Saz 18 "an improvement from last year’s release" and the 2011 "very similar to last year's release".

He addresses it, but doesn't give much of a hypothesis as to why the vintages neither ascend nor descend in regards to ratings. You would think it would get better or worse due to oxidation. Maybe this year they bottled the "honey tank.":lol:

[timd]

He addresses it, but doesn't give much of a hypothesis as to why the vintages neither ascend nor descend in regards to ratings. You would think it would get better or worse due to oxidation. Maybe this year they bottled the "honey tank.":lol:

Or they've learned to pump the oxygen and other volatiles out of the tank and fill it with inert gasses? Doesn't seem that to many folks taste buds that Saz 18 has changed one way or the other for the past few years...

[StraightNoChaser]

We did a side by side of an 09 and 11 PVW15 last night. This new 15yr juice is not worthy to be called PVW if you ask me. Nothing special and undeserving of such a premium price.

[White Dog]

We did a side by side of an 09 and 11 PVW15 last night. This new 15yr juice is not worthy to be called PVW if you ask me. Nothing special and undeserving of such a premium price.

How long has your 2011 Pappy 15 been opened?

[StraightNoChaser]

How long has your 2011 Pappy 15 been opened?

About 5 days. The 09 bottle was opened a little over a week ago