Breckenridge

[Restaurant man]

While i understand the skeptical nature of many members of this forum when it comes to micro-distillers... I recently met with bryan volt of breckenridge distillery and was impressed with his passion for the beverage. the whiskey didn't blow me away but it was good. and unfortunately for him, i have the pleasure (as we all do) of consuming some of the best american whiskey available on a regular basis. so when i taste something new, its up against some stiff competition. And its only a three year old whiskey. I don't drink much 3 year old stuff from anyone. Do we have a responsibility to support those that start out with the right intentions and make the small investment of hundreds of thousands or millions of $$ even if their stuff is not "fully up to snuff" just yet because we see that they are on the right path? support your local (or non local) distiller. I didn't ask him if it was vatted, and he told me that the whiskey in the bottle was distilled by him. When i was presented by the distributer, i passed because i know its not gonna sell in my joint. but after meeting the guy i picked up a couple of bottles. the big guys are actually doing a good job at innovating and respecting tradition. Obviously the problem of how to come out of the gate with a new distillery project is a difficult one as there are a lot of options to "start up" and building a distillery, waiting till your stocks are ten years old to unveil the new secret super premium bourbon is not one of them. BTW i own no stock, have no family members involved and wasn't blown away by the juice (in its current young situation) but i do get a little bashing sense on any whiskey not well established in this hobby. it cant all be VWFRR.

[AaronWF]

I agree, support your local distillers. It has to take decades for a distillery to really get in motion, an almost unimaginable task in this day and age, but a task start-up distilleries are faced with nonetheless. We've seen corporations buy up already established distilleries, but we haven't seen any outfit start from nothing and make it to the big leagues quite yet. I look forward to the day.

[deathevocation]

Interesting post. I was thinking of it recently - it takes a large capital outlay and a number of loss making years before a distillery gets going. It must be really hard during the start up phase, especially if its not backed by a big corporation. Obviously people don't want to spend cash on sub standard product, but there is a balance - taking one for the team to help a distiller develop, or keeping with the tried and true. Remember, the tried and true were in a start up phase once upon a time.

[mrviognier]

As an aside...in my last position I was managing a distributor, and had been sent samples of the Breckenridge Bourbon and Vodka. Great packing, and a very passionate staff. I thought the Vodka would have had some resonance with our market more than the whiskey. Things must've changed, because the Bourbon I tasted was sourced back East and bottled in CO. Would love to try the new stuff.

Having started up my own winery, and now working for a relatively young distillery, I might have a different perspective on this topic. In short, you have no responsibility to support any new venture unless the product they are making compel you to support them.

The market will (and should) always determine if a business is to be successful.

[Restaurant man]

As an aside...in my last position I was managing a distributor, and had been sent samples of the Breckenridge Bourbon and Vodka. Great packing, and a very passionate staff. I thought the Vodka would have had some resonance with our market more than the whiskey. Things must've changed, because the Bourbon I tasted was sourced back East and bottled in CO. Would love to try the new stuff.

Having started up my own winery, and now working for a relatively young distillery, I might have a different perspective on this topic. In short, you have no responsibility to support any new venture unless the product they are making compel you to support them.

The market will (and should) always determine if a business is to be successful.

[mrviognier]

The best thing you can offer a producer - short of purchasing their product when the quality merits it & it makes sense for your beverage program - is constructive criticism as to why you're passing on it.

Granted, there a question of bruised ego...after all, you can't get into the production and selling of a beverage without a well-developed one. But, in the end, you're doing the producer a favor.

[Old Lamplighter]

The market will (and should) always determine if a business is to be successful.

[Restaurant man]

I agree 100%. However, if you are a U.S. auto maker, 'green' energy company, and a myriad of other industries the government deems necessary to 'save', control, etc., etc., you can survive without traditional market economics.:hot:

Hey, maybe if a distillery can find a way to use green energy to fire up & run their still(s), they can send a rep to get in line at 1600 PA Ave.:Clever:

Sorry...probably the wrong topic area...but, couldn't help meself!!!:soapbox: :drink:

[mrviognier]

Maybe that's the secret: start a new distillery and hire 10,000 employees. You'd be too big to fail!

[Ejmharris]

Back on topic, I like supporting the little guys. I am selective about it but when someone stands out to me I will pay a little more to get their product. MB Roland really stands out to me. They are experimenting a lot and making some fine whiskey. Yeah I pay $26 for a 375ml but it is all local grains and this truly is a family operation of about 4 people. I know there are some other craft distillers on this forum and I plan on trying some as soon as I can find them in the Cincinnati, NKY, SW Indiana area. The industry can be cost prohibitive to enter and the other barriers to entry can be tough to overcome. When some make the walk out to the end of plank and they continue to produce qualify product that push the limits I will be supportive. Great thread.

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[sailor22]

Had occasion to sample the Breckenridge yesterday and came away thinking this was some of the best juice I had tasted distilled by a start up craft distilleries. But really, that isn't saying a lot.

I was told it wasn't sourced, that it was "about" four and a half years old and was a very high rye Bourbon. This info was from a distributor and it isn't unusual for them to get their facts wrong, so no promises.

Underwhelming at first taste because of low proof and a softness that hid some flavors I was not impressed. But as I drank through a generous pour it revealed more flavors and a delicious rye character. I was reminded of a lot of the younger LDI rye's on the market but without the mouthwash mint that ruins them for me. One of the people I was drinking with thought it would be a perfect bridge bourbon that could introduce a new drinker to rye. True enough, but the flavors are so diluted that it probably won't appeal to the more experienced drinker.

It's too expensive at $50 for what it is but I would buy a bottle anyway just because it is unusual but still enjoyable. I can picture an evening when it would be a perfect fit. I really wish it was a higher proof to show more the flavors that seem to be muted by too much water. This one is close but just misses, particularly at this price point.

I look forward to this one at a higher proof with a few more years in the barrel.

[bad_scientist]

I feel no need to pay exorbitant amounts of money for young whiskey, just to support local micro-distillers. It's basically a huge, non tax-deductible donation.

However, I might be very tempted to enter into an agreement with them that gives me something in return. For instance, if I pay $500 now for a promise of 10-15 bottles when the whiskey has been aged for 8+ years, I'd be pretty happy and also would likely develop a personal attachment to the stuff.

[BradleyC]

Not sourced? I was told it was 4 roses whiskey. I dont think they have been around 4.5 years yet. I have been to the distillery. I thought it was strange how all of their barrels are stored upright standing on the barrel heads. My immediate thoughts were they didnt want us to see whose barrels they were. Upright barrels must be pretty tough to move around. As far as incorrect info from a distributor.............I'm shocked to hear this!

[PaulO]

I'm genuinely interested in this sort of thing. On the other hand I don't think I'd pay premium prices for anything 80 proof, and very young.

[Restaurant man]

$50 bucks is steep for a 4.5 year whiskey. FWIW bryan the owner told me they distilled everything from the bottle i tasted. I will say that the small craft distillers will almost never be a good value compared to the big boy's as they have the advantage of multiple product lines to have wider appeal, Paid for equiptment, land and buildings, MUCH larger top lines (sales) that render fixed costs to small percentages of operating expenses, etc

Still I'm with bad scientist, this ain't no charity were running here. Stuff's gotta be good

[bourboncc]

However, I might be very tempted to enter into an agreement with them that gives me something in return. For instance, if I pay $500 now for a promise of 10-15 bottles when the whiskey has been aged for 8+ years, I'd be pretty happy and also would likely develop a personal attachment to the stuff.

[mrviognier]

That idea is referred to as "futures" in the wine industry. I am actually very surprised that you don't see this type of thing more often with craft distillers. It would be a great way to raise some startup capital while keeping people interested in how your brand is doing.

[sailor22]

The BIG difference here is that wineries who offer futures have a track record. What you're suggesting is ponying up money for a producer without any track record at all. For all you know the enterprise might go belly up without even bottling anything...and where's the remedy for getting your $$ back from a BK company?

While the idea sounds interesting, I doubt it'll catch on. Consumers are better off waiting to sample the finished product to determine if it's worth spending a dollar on.

[bad_scientist]

Good points and if it were only about investing for profit that would be true.

If OTOH you are confident the white dog HW is putting up has a very good chance of coming very good in, lets say, a dozen years or so and you enjoy being part of the process and see it as a way of insuring that you have access to some part of the product then it can make sense. Having some skin in the game always makes it more interesting. Plus the producer has a built in cheering section.

[mrviognier]

Good points and if it were only about investing for profit that would be true.

Huh? Has very little to do with investing for a profit. The overwhelming volume of the wine futures going on these days is done by consumers who want the opportunity to purchase their favorite wines at favorable rates...wines that have a track record.

Having some skin in the game always makes it more interesting. Plus the producer has a built in cheering section.

You obviously are more of a betting man than I am. Most of the gambling I do these days is when I decided to eat at a new restaurant. :grin:

I'll stand by my post...interesting idea that won't catch on. And I'd wager that anyone who tried it wouldn't garner enough financial return for it to be a viable part of their business plan.

[sailor22]

Huh? Has very little to do with investing for a profit. The overwhelming volume of the wine futures going on these days is done by consumers who want the opportunity to purchase their favorite wines at favorable rates...wines that have a track record.

Apparently I don't understand the wine worlds futures thing so I will defer to your expertise.

But buying at favorable rates a few years down the road is exactly what I had in mind.

Huh? Has very little to do with investing for a profit. The overwhelming volume of the wine futures going on these days is done by consumers who want the opportunity to purchase their favorite wines at favorable rates...wines that have a track record.

You obviously are more of a betting man than I am. Most of the gambling I do these days is when I decided to eat at a new restaurant. :grin:

I'll stand by my post...interesting idea that won't catch on. And I'd wager that anyone who tried it wouldn't garner enough financial return for it to be a viable part of their business plan.

[Bourbon Boiler]

FYI, an epsiode of "The Mentor" on the Bloomberg network airing right now with Breckenridge trying to break into the NYC market.

[Bourbon Boiler]

Back on topic, I like supporting the little guys. I am selective about it but when someone stands out to me I will pay a little more to get their product. MB Roland really stands out to me. They are experimenting a lot and making some fine whiskey. Yeah I pay $26 for a 375ml but it is all local grains and this truly is a family operation of about 4 people. I know there are some other craft distillers on this forum and I plan on trying some as soon as I can find them in the Cincinnati, NKY, SW Indiana area. The industry can be cost prohibitive to enter and the other barriers to entry can be tough to overcome. When some make the walk out to the end of plank and they continue to produce qualify product that push the limits I will be supportive. Great thread.

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Good call on MBR. I had only had their white corn whiskey prior to this week, and I had only purchased that originally for some aging experiments. My favorite part is that they are willing to experiment. Aging corn in a tobacco barn to impart a different flavor was an unusual idea, and I hope they get rewarded for it. Now, I hope they get rewarded because the marketplace enjoys it as a product / value, not just because people are cheering for the little guy.