tdelling Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Sweet Sippin' II: Mountain Moonshine(Second in a series)Mountain MoonshineWest Virginia Spirit WhiskeyWest Virginia Distilling Co., LLC, Morganton, WV100 Proof"Proudly brought to you by West Virginia's best distillers.This product is made from the finest corn whiskey, blended withcorn grain neutral spirits, to produce a genuine West Virginiamoonshine. Enjoy.""Blended with 20% Corn Whiskey, 80% grain neutral spirits,distilled from corn. Less than 30 days old."What is authentic moonshine? To some people, moonshinemeans rocket fuel, 150+ proof, not to be swallowed withoutdilution. To others, moonshine should taste like a mouthfull sweet corn. These boys in WV have decided to walk theline: they incorporate both syles, successfully, in their"Mountain Moonshine". I have a feeling that this is justthe style they like best. It's what I like to call GoodDesign. They have achieved balance.Color: crystal clearNose: light and spirity, a touch plummy, with the "sweetalcohol" notes that some people recognise in isopropyl alcoholor straight ethanol. Green grapes.Sip, sip, sippin': Candy corns, plummy, jelly beans, at timesfruity. As a matter of fact, if people are gonna use the term"dark fruits" then I'll use the term "green fruits" - kinda likethe green apples that you don't let the cows eat since it makesthe milk sour.Finish: slightly plummy, some graham crackers.Overall: Most of us whiskey drinkers are used to the "bassnotes" that hit you as it sits on our tongue, perhaps somespicy notes if what we're drinkin' has some rye in it.If you think those two things are essential, then you'll bea little disappointed. Me, I can enjoy this stuff. It'snot deep and complex, but it has a surprising aspect to it:it has yummy-ness and drinkability. I think if they'd gonewith 100% corn whiskey, it would have been too much... butblending it with higher proof 'shine makes it round andwell balanced... which is more than I can say about a lotof aged whiskies out there! Some might call it "Absolut Corn", but I think that wouldbe disrespectful to the robust squeezin's in this bottle,which I recommend to anyone who wants something light anddelicious: Sweet Nectar of Corn.Tim Dellinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 Oh, yes, lest I ferget:Mountain Moonshine is made by two fellers by the name ofBo McDaniel and Payton Fireman,and they procured for themselves West Virginia'sfirst distilled spirits licence: WV-DRB-1I applaud their ambition.They've got a website atwww.mountainmoonshine.com[\url]Cost per bottle at retail is less than $13/bottle.I'd like to give Special Thanks to Chuck Logsdonfor procuring this bottle for me. Thanks Chuck!I owe you one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurphyDawg Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Well shit, a product where the only places you can get it are where it is made and the communist control state of ohio (I am actually privy to something rare???) GAWLEEE!!!LOL I just might have to buy a bottle, I remember seeing it rather cheap.TomC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Glad to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneCubeOnly Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 This product is a blend of corn whiskey and neutral grain spirits, so how closely will this approximate the 'sugar' moonshine they talked about on that Discovery Channel special? I realize no matter WHAT you're bottling at this young age you'll get a raw, unpolished product, but does it really taste like 'shine, especially since NEITHER grain nor (in most cases) corn is involved in moonshining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 >I realize no matter WHAT you're bottling at this young age you'll get a raw,>unpolished productIt's actually pretty smooth. Taking a small center-cut or distilling tohigher proof can take away the "raw, unpolished" edge. Perhaps I'll doa side-by-side tasting with, say, Ten High to calibrate smoothness.>but does it really taste like 'shine, especially since>NEITHER grain nor (in most cases) corn is involved in moonshining?Well, you're making big claims there, claims that I have todisagree with. Moonshiners have traditionally used corn, andeven after sugar became popular, corn was still added for flavor.Corn is pretty much an integral part of the traditional "moonshineflavor." If you'd like a handfull of books to read about traditionalmoonshine, I can give you a bibliography.(As I touched on in my tasting notes, there are as many styles ofmoonshine as there are moonshiners... so "does it taste like 'shine?"is a pretty difficult question to answer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbassdad Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Tim, I am both gladdened and slightly amused that you are so knowledgeable about the variations on the 'shine theme. Your post caused me to conjure up a vision of www.Moonshine.com. Right now there may be a debate going on there between Billy Joe Bob and Bobby Joe Bill, who are discussing the proper proportions of ingredient X and why the American drinking public has turned to more refined liquor at the expense of the moonshine industry. Yours truly, Dave Morefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 >I am both gladdened and slightly amused that you are so knowledgeable>about the variations on the 'shine theme.It's just part of my interest in American Whiskies... as a matter offact, I consider it crucial to the understanding of the evolution ofspirits in America. In addition, it is a uniquely American culturalphenomenon, like baseball. (Note that the Brits have their own, similartraditions, but ours are so... American.) I think I posted an outlinefor what I considered to be the knowlege required to graduate Bourbon 101,201, etc. a while back... 'shine is definitely part of the coursework!>Right now there may be a debate going on there between Billy Joe Bob and>Bobby Joe Bill, who are discussing the proper proportions of ingredient X>and why the American drinking public has turned to more refined liquor at>the expense of the moonshine industry.You jest? Such things are out there for those who know how to find them!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneCubeOnly Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Tim, you're obviously a lot more in-the-know when it comes to moonshine history and culture, but when I ask "does it taste like 'shine?" I'm not talking about Uncle Jed the whiskey enthusiast crafting a fine mashbill in his basement. I'm talking about the 'pop the trunk and sell me a jug of illegal hooch' kind.Are you claiming that most of today's moonshine is corn-based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Dave, I know some well-to-do people out in the country who know good whiskey and prefer moonshine. They gave me a taste one time: Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 My sense is that while "every moonshiner is different," there are a couple of main strains.1. The businessman. This individual has customers who want cheap, potent spirits. Somehow, he has to make something that's cheaper than buying Everclear. Even if he has to transport the Everclear into a dry county, that's a tough hurdle. The solution is sugar, because it ferments, easily, quickly and completely, with minimal hassle and little telltale odor.2. The traditionalist. This individual probably has been shining all of his life, like his pappy and grandpappy before him. Sure, there's money involved, but mostly he just does it because he's always done it. He also has definite ideas about how it should be done and he sticks to the old family recipe.3. The craftsman. Like the traditionalist, this person isn't doing it so much for the money but because he likes doing it and likes the product. The main difference between the craftsman and the traditionalist is that the craftsman may experiment a little bit, trying to make the best product he can.4. The fraud. This person acquires alcohol in any form, maybe making it, maybe buying it, maybe stealing it, but probably "positions" his product as good ole country shine just like grandpappy used to make. His product might kill you or make you blind. He doesn't care.Maybe there are some other variations, but those are the four that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbassdad Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Tim,I'm sure that our preferences, including those of your well-to-do friends, have a lot to do with our early experiences, whether positive or negative. Furthermore, after someone develops a taste for something extremely potent, it's easy to understand how "the good stuff" could seem bland by comparison.I'd like to sample traditional moonshine once in my life, but I'd be surprised if I came to crave a second drink. Given the huge difference between Wild Turkey 101 and the 12 year-old version, I can't imagine how rough even WT would be if aged only during the trip from the still to my home. Come to think of it, would the distillate of an all-sugar recipe contain as many rough-tasting elements as a that of a corn/rye/barley mashbill? Maybe the all-sugar recipe doesn't need aging to the same degree.Yours truly,Dave Morefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 >but when I ask "does it taste like 'shine?" I'm not talking about Uncle Jed the>whiskey enthusiast crafting a fine mashbill in his basement. I'm talking about>the 'pop the trunk and sell me a jug of illegal hooch' kind.Well, those are often the same people! Like I said before, there are asmany styles of 'shine as there are 'shiners. If you look in terms ofpopulation, I'd say a majority are backyard hobbyists who make likkerfor themselves and to sell (or give away) people they know. They *mostly*use grain (perhaps plus sugar), although there is a growing contingent thatuses straight sugar, mostly baby-boomer aged people, who are increasinglyusing packed column stills instead of pot stills.If instead you look at gallons produced, most of the "big profit operations" do,in fact, use at least some grain, (although there are going to be somewho use straight sugar.)A few recipes from the "big profit operations":http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/08/28/moonshine.ap/Along one wall stretches a row of huge vats, big enough to bathe in, fashioned by hand from white pine. Each vat holds a concoction of 300 gallons of spring water, 300 pounds of sugar, 50 pounds of rye and a pound of yeast, fermenting frothily like a cauldron of angry cappuccino.http://www.randlemanland.com/shine.htmlThe government confiscated from the store and the warehouse 9,648 one-gallon jugs, 32 100-pound bags of sugar, 4 bags of rye and 14 boxes of Mason jars, and from Ramsey Helms's home a gun, radio scanners and a family photo album. Nine days after the raid, Ramsey Helms put a gun to his chest and killed himself. Since then, the agents have frozen $86,442 in William Helms's checking accounts...http://www.mta.ca/pub/reference/article047.htmlDistillers pour in hundreds of kilograms of sugar mixed with yeast, bran, and malt to form a sweet syrup called mash, which is left to ferment for about a week.Personally, I think a few things are happening here. 1 - What sells is what people will make.2 - Trial and error tells you what the beer geeks already know: yeast requires soluble nitrogen (i.e. amino acids) in order to grow and multiply. Straight sugar has no nitrogen, but grains do.3 - The light beer phenomenon. It's actually MORE difficult to make Miller Lite than it is to make Guiness. Why? With Miller Lite, there's less taste to cover up your mistakes, so every little problem you have shows up in the finished product! With Guiness, you've got a larger margin of error.Tim Dellinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 >Come to think of it, would the distillate of an all-sugar recipe contain>as many rough-tasting elements as a that of a corn/rye/barley mashbill?>Maybe the all-sugar recipe doesn't need aging to the same degree.It all depends on the strain of yeast used, the fermentation conditions,and how it was distilled. There's no hard and fast rule connectingmashbill to "roughness".Tim Dellinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Boudreaux been fish'n down by de bayou all day an he done run outa night crawlers. He be bout reddy to leave when he seed a snake wit a big frog in his mout. He knowed that them big bass fish like frogs so he decided to steal dat froggie. That snake, hit be a cottn mouthed water moccasin so he had to be real careful or he'd get bit. He snuk up behind the snake and grabbed him roun the haid. That ole snake din't lik dat one bit. He squirmed and wrapped hisself roun Boudreaux's arm try'n to get himself free. But Boudreaux, him, had a real good grip on his haid, yeh. Well, Boudreaux pried hit's mout open and got de frog and puts it in his bait can. Now, Boudreaux knows that he cain't let go dat snake or hit's gonna bite him good, but he had a plan. He reached into the back pocket of his bib overhauls and pulls out a pint o'moonshine likker. He pours a couple of draps into the snakes mout. Well, that snake's eyeballs roll back in hits haid and hits body limp. Wit dat Boudreaux toss's dat snake into the bayou den he goes back to fishin. A while later Boudreaux dun feel sumpin tappin on his barefoot toe. He slowly look down and dare dat water mocassin was with two frogs in his mouth. ****************************************************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornsqueezins Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Dave, you said: "I can't imagine how rough even WT would be if aged only during the trip from the still to my home."And then Tim said: "It all depends on the strain of yeast used, the fermentation conditions, and how it was distilled. There's no hard and fast rule connecting mashbill to "roughness".Since this thread has been moved to Off Topic, I feel a little easier about throwing in some comments about alabama whiskey and tequila. I know this discussion is about moonshine, but in regard to distillation/roughness, some good examples of young but smooth spirits would be El Tesoro Silver 100% blue agave tequila and Conecuh Ridge whiskey. Conecuh Ridge is aged for perhaps a year but I found it to be extremely smooth and too easy to drink. I think it was Tim who remarked that this may be from distilling at a high proof and then cutting with water. This whiskey is made in the tradition of a recent family moonshine recipe so I guess you could say it is an authentic example of genuine smooth 'shine.El Tesoro silver is actually distilled at 80 proof. No water is added to this tequila. And it is bottled within 24 hours of distillation. Needless to say, this tequila is very flavorful but has practically no rough edges. A surprisingly smooth and enjoyable drink. Of course this might be easier to pull off with agave based drinks rather than corn based liquors but I was really impressed.-Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 >Since this thread has been moved to Off Topic...Could one of the moderators move this thread (or at least the firstfew posts) back to the Tastings section? The original post is 100%formal tasting notes, and, as a matter of fact, is the second in aseries of three. (Possibly four...)It seems that there are three moderators for tastings and four foroff-topic, so I'm not sure who I should talk to about this one!I'd like to have all of my tastings in the Tastings section so that I(and others) can find them there.I see how moonshine can be hard to put into any of the discussioncategories that we have... it's not really "Foreign", and it's notquite right for "History". Personally, I consider it "prehistoric Bourbon",i.e. it's what bourbon was before it was bourbon.I'd rather not have it in the "Off Topic" section, which is really fornon-whiskey stuff... motorcycles, Disney world, banjos, shotguns...Thanks!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Tim, I moved your post because, although it does include formal tasting notes, it does not pertain to bourbon, as is technically the requirement to be included in the bourbon section of the bbs. Because of your request I went back 6 or 7 pages on the tasting board to see if this has been allowed in the past. I couldn't find anything that wasn't bourbon related. This does pose an interesting questions though. I'll talk to Jim about a more appropriate placement for your fine tasing notes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Excellent story, Chaz. Please come around more often.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 There are bottles of legal "white lightning" in my ABC stores, called Georgia Moon. It comes in a Mason jar. You probably can't get it in California, though.I never tried it myself. I remember what those country gentlemen gave me. Basically, it was corn vodka. One taste was enough to last a lifetime, like you said.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Haha, forgot about that Georgia Moon stuff... Like you said, one taste was enough for me for a lifetime as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyc Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I can't imagine how rough even WT would be if aged only during the trip from the still to my home. Another reason to visit the Bourbon Festival and go on a distillery tour, See they got this stuff called white dog and I guess none of them will sell any in that state but they let you drink freely of it when you are watching them take off a run on the stills. If you did that you know without being told that it is as smooth as water , there is a flavor component that will always be present no matter how long it gets aged and it is minus the caramel and wood flavors. It's one of those things, you have to be there I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Bass like them cottonmouths, too....When I lived in South Florida in the early 80s, there was a story - I believe it was in the paper, either that or BassMasters magazine - about a fisherman who caught a sizable bass. The fisherman grabbed the bass by the lower jaw to lift it out of the water. The story goes that a just swallowed cotton mouth came out of the bass' gullet and bit the fisherman on the hand. Is this true? I have no idea. My memory may be fading me. But, it is a heckuva story. Makes you think twice before grabbing that jaw. ;-)I know from experience that those South Florida cotton mouths are ornery. I've never been bitten, but I have had them challenge my boat (at that time, 12' aluminum). The dang snake just came right at us. He wasn't afraid a bit. We had to hit him with the oar to keep him away from the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Here's another story I read when I lived in South Florida. Allegedly, a fisherman had caught both an 8 lb bass and a 9 lb bass on the same cast. The story was that the first fish hit a live shiner, but the shiner blew through the bass' gill. A second bass then hit the now available shiner and was hooked. The fisherman had a heck of a battle on his hand, but landed both.I do find this one hard to believe, but I remember reading it from an allegedly reliable source. I have caught two bass on the same lure when casting a crank bait into a feeding frenzy where several small bass are feeding on a school of bait fish. Even though the two bass are small (about 1 lb each), they create a bigger fight than having a 2 lb fish on. It's really surprising how it feels like a big fish on the line. This makes me think how big a battle the previous fisherman must have had. If his story is true, he must have thought he had a world record on the line (over 22 lb.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbutler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 It is available here Tim. Beverages & More carries it in every one of their stores I've been in. Never had the guts to try it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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